S1050 resized 9mm not round

[DeepFried]

This may be better suited for the 9mm forum? But here goes.

 

Recently acquired a new to me super 1050 from a member here. When making adjustments to the powder drop for case mouth expansion, I noticed the cases were not ‘perfectly’ round.

 

Traced that back to the resizing die. Running the Dillon carbide die. After resizing the case, mouse is oval/oblong shaped. As I go down the case towards the base, it is much more round/concentric.

 

Measuring OD of .371/.376 at the case mouth taking two measurements and rotating 90°.   0.005 from being round. 
 

went through die setup process again: loosen lock ring, snug die to shell plate, insert case, tighten lock ring. Cleaned the die for any debris build up. 
 

mixed head stamp range pickup. Can’t seem to track it by headstamp, some are better or worse than others from same headstamp. 
 

is this an issue? Is this normal? 
 

thanks. 

[ChuckS]

You are in the correct forum  Good luck with your issue...

[SnipTheDog]

How does the finished product look?  The out of round might be a sizing die problem, but if the 1050 is producing good ammunition after the crimp die, I'm not sure I'd worry about it.

 

When the case gets belled by the powder drop, do you still see the case out of round?  Is the out of round preventing the belling?

[DeepFried]

54 minutes ago, SnipTheDog said:

How does the finished product look?  The out of round might be a sizing die problem, but if the 1050 is producing good ammunition after the crimp die, I'm not sure I'd worry about it.

 

When the case gets belled by the powder drop, do you still see the case out of round?  Is the out of round preventing the belling?

finished product is acceptable for me, not sure I have an issue but figured I’d get some insight here. 
 

powder drop bell reduces the amount of oval and the final product after crimp is reduced yet again. 
 

I found the issue when trying to set the case mouth bell, and was getting measurements that didn’t make sense. Realized it was due to rotating the cases. So I am still not uniform at that station.

 

I would summarize as follows:

0.005 out of round after sizing

0.003 out of round after powder funnel expansion. 
0.001-0.002 after final station. 

[shred]

I see quite a few of other peoples reloads when doing support for the 100-round case gauges.  It's not uncommon for them to be a bit out of round.  It's also difficult to measure for most people (indicator over a v-block gets rid of most of the spring problems inherent to calipers or micrometers), so they don't as it doesn't really affect anything until they get really wonky.

 

Try also measuring the brass before you size it.  Mark the high side and see if it stays there or the sizing die is out of round.

 

 

 

[DeepFried]

16 hours ago, shred said:

I see quite a few of other peoples reloads when doing support for the 100-round case gauges.  It's not uncommon for them to be a bit out of round.  It's also difficult to measure for most people (indicator over a v-block gets rid of most of the spring problems inherent to calipers or micrometers), so they don't as it doesn't really affect anything until they get really wonky.

 

Try also measuring the brass before you size it.  Mark the high side and see if it stays there or the sizing die is out of round.

 

 

 

good info, thank you.

 

I marked the die and some brass, and then rotated the die 90 and 180°. The shape of the brass rotates with the die.

 

Don’t have the right tools, using a caliper, but measuring the die itself seems very close to uniform.
 

I did notice the carbide insert has a little bit of wiggle. I’m thinking this may be normal as it is just staked in place. With the dye out of the press and a piece of brass inserted into the die, I can get a little bit of movement/noise from the carbide insert in the die.

 

at the end of the day, I don’t think I have a real issue here. But dang if my curiosity and perfectionist side of things don’t have me wanting to try a different sizing die. Need to remember this is not PRS ammo! But sometimes those pesky blazer primers stick to the D capping pin, and get sucked back in… That FW arms sizer sure looks nice

[Jsjac]

The carbide insert should not be loose. 

I have two sets of Dillon dies and neither of them have loose carbide inserts.

I would suggest you check with Dillon. 

 

[DeepFried]

3 hours ago, Jsjac said:

The carbide insert should not be loose. 

I have two sets of Dillon dies and neither of them have loose carbide inserts.

I would suggest you check with Dillon. 

 

Will contact Dillon and see if they have advice on all of it. Loose may be a bit strong of a word, but it has some amount of play. Can even rotate it. 

[Maximis228]

Looks like a new die is in order. Good catch. 

 

Now lets hope Dillon is quick to get a new one out to you. 

[DeepFried]

2 hours ago, Maximis228 said:

Looks like a new die is in order. Good catch. 

 

Now lets hope Dillon is quick to get a new one out to you. 

I called them today. when you say quick do you mean 10-12 months?

 

carbide shortages..going to mail this one and see if they can inspect/repair/advise. Worst case I will pick up a Lee die I’m thinking. 
 

will report back if this is the root cause of the oval issue. Not really convinced but will be easy to confirm. 

[dillon]

If the carbide ring is loose, then debris can build up on the top of the insert, so that when you run a fired case up into the die, the carbide ring is held at a slight angle. This is all it takes to get out of round cases, as the carbide ring is not squre to the case.  If you send us the die, we can press the carbide ring out of the old body, and install it into a new die body. The carbide rings are pressed in, along with a light amount of loctite, and then crimped into place. This only takes a day or so in-house. 

[DeepFried]

Thank you for the explanation, that makes sense. 
 

It will be in the mail tomorrow. 

[Farmer]

On 7/24/2023 at 4:38 PM, Seoderus said:

Thank you for the explanation, that makes sense. 
 

It will be in the mail tomorrow. 

That should help considerably but don’t expect the brass to be perfectly round with the repaired die or even a new one. Some brass is thicker on one side, could be from manufacturing or being fired in an oversized chamber or whatever. This will cause it to be slightly oval. Really nothing you can do about it. 

[DeepFried]

Certainly won’t be perfect, neither is the method of measurement. 
 

but my old SDB produces far better results than this 1050 die. So there must be room for improvement. 

[99mpower]

im a huge fan of the redding dies..   i have my share of Dillon stuff, but Redding carbide dies, just LAST on my automated S1050s.

[DeepFried]

Dillon refurbished the die and sent it back my way.

 

Did not solve my oval-shaped brass issue, but it is nice to have it in proper functioning condition.

 

I think I’m just going to give up on this one since it does not seem to hurt the final product.