Shooters world Clean Shot for 124 Grain

[stephenmcrna]

Is anyone shooting clean shot with 124 grain coated bullets.  I have a shadow 2.  

[ysrracer]

9 hours ago, stephenmcrna said:

Is anyone shooting clean shot with 124 grain coated bullets.  I have a shadow 2.  

 

Name: 9mm: 124gr Xtreme RN: Cleanshot 4gr: Mixed Case: OAL 1.140
Notes: Para 1911 5"
Shots: 13
Average: 1057 ft/s
SD: 7 ft/s
Min: 1044 ft/s
Max: 1073 ft/s
Spread: 29 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 131
Power Factor Low: 129
Power Factor High: 133
Barometric Pressure: 30 in Hg
Temperature: 69 F
Weight: 124.0 gr.
Powder: Cleanshot 4.0gr
Case: Mixed
Primer: Rem SPP
Bullet: Xtreme 124gr RN
OAL: 1.140
Gun: Para 5" 1911

 

[truespode]

I shoot a FN 509 with Apex 5" slide and 135gr truncated cones Blue Bullets with clean shot and mixed range pickup brass.

I use 3.6 grains of Clean Shot and get between 129 and 132 PF consistently.

The only reason I bring it up since it isn't 124 or a Shadow is that the guy who taught me to load had a CZ and liked the truncated cones so he could load a little longer OAL. Not sure if that is something that you want to try or not.

Personally I like the 135's as well as 147's but bought a lot of 135's and have gotten so comfortable loading and shooting them I don't see myself changing anytime soon. Even with costs of ammo coming down I am still loading b/c of the stress break I get when doing it

[iflyskyhigh]

Several coated projectiles from several guns to give you some ideas. 
 

4.0 grs is for sure the load. 
 

There is an asterisk * by my go to load.

 

I ended up shorting the Precision 125gr flat points quite a bit to make them fit all my guns. As with many previous experiments, shorter COAL almost always equates to better accuracy. Exception being the open gun where the case is full.

 

Precision 125gr FP’s are the most accurate coated 125 I have tried so far (of course they are out of business now). Blues are pretty close if not a tie for second.

 

Couple instances where I haven’t chrono’d a go load, but there are chrono results on either side to give a rough idea. 
 

125gr BBI CN 

1.100” COAL

 

Clean Shot G34

4.0 grs 1056 FPS 10.1 SD / 28 ES *

4.1 grs 1064 FPS 9.9 SD / 29 ES (1.120”)

4.2 grs 1080 FPS 9.6 SD / 27 ES (1.120”)

4.3 grs 1089 FPS 15.4 SD / 42 ES

4.3 grs 1080 FPS 9.6 SD / 27 ES (1.120”)

4.4 grs 1096 FPS

4.5 grs 1115 FPS

Clean Shot G17

3.8 grs 1027 FPS ES/SD

4.0 grs 1046 FPS 11 SD / 37 ES *

4.0 grs 1045 FPS 5.5 SD / 14 ES

4.2 grs 1066 FPS 10 SD / 27 ES

4.2 grs 1068 FPS 6.7 SD / 20 ES (1.120”)

4.3 grs 1072 FPS 8.9 SD / 32 ES

4.3 grs 1069 FPS 9.5 SD / 31 ES (1.120”)

4.5 grs 1098 FPS

4.6 grs 1106 FPS

 

Clean Shot M17

4.0 grs *

4.1 grs 1052 FPS 10.1 SD / 25 ES (1.120”)

4.2 grs 1063 FPS 7 SD / 18 ES (1.120”)

4.3 grs 1069 FPS 6.6 SD / 20 ES

4.3 grs 1071 FPS 11.4 SD / 36 ES (1.120”)

4.5 grs 1092 FPS

 

Clean Shot Shield

4.0 grs *

4.1 grs 985 FPS 9 SD / 27 ES (1.120”)

4.2 grs 985 FPS 8.5 SD / 28 ES (1.120”)

4.3 grs 1001 FPS 6 SD / 17 ES (1.120”)

4.5 grs 1024 FPS

 

 

125gr DG CN 

1.100” COAL

.376” crimp

 

Clean Shot G34

4.0 grs 1058 FPS 8.7 SD / 23 ES *

 

Clean Shot G17

4.0 grs 1064 FPS 5 SD / 11 ES*

 

Clean Shot M18

4.0 grs 1035 4.9 / 12*

 

Clean Shot G19X

4.0 grs 1049 4.8 / 14 *

 

Clean Shot P80 (G19)

4.0 grs 1048 FPS 11.5 SD / 29 ES *

 

 

125gr Precision FP 

1.100 COAL 

Crimp .376”

 

Clean Shot G34

4.0 grs 1059 FPS 4.6 SD / 15 ES *

 

Clean Shot G17

4.0 grs 1050 FPS 7.4 SD / 21 ES *

 

Clean Shot P80 (G19)

4.0 grs 1038 FPS 6.6 SD / 14 ES*

Edited June 9, 2023 by iflyskyhigh

[stephenmcrna]

On 6/9/2023 at 11:17 AM, iflyskyhigh said:

Several coated projectiles from several guns to give you some ideas. 
 

4.0 grs is for sure the load. 
 

There is an asterisk * by my go to load.

 

I ended up shorting the Precision 125gr flat points quite a bit to make them fit all my guns. As with many previous experiments, shorter COAL almost always equates to better accuracy. Exception being the open gun where the case is full.

 

Precision 125gr FP’s are the most accurate coated 125 I have tried so far (of course they are out of business now). Blues are pretty close if not a tie for second.

 

Couple instances where I haven’t chrono’d a go load, but there are chrono results on either side to give a rough idea. 
 

125gr BBI CN 

1.100” COAL

 

Clean Shot G34

4.0 grs 1056 FPS 10.1 SD / 28 ES *

4.1 grs 1064 FPS 9.9 SD / 29 ES (1.120”)

4.2 grs 1080 FPS 9.6 SD / 27 ES (1.120”)

4.3 grs 1089 FPS 15.4 SD / 42 ES

4.3 grs 1080 FPS 9.6 SD / 27 ES (1.120”)

4.4 grs 1096 FPS

4.5 grs 1115 FPS

Clean Shot G17

3.8 grs 1027 FPS ES/SD

4.0 grs 1046 FPS 11 SD / 37 ES *

4.0 grs 1045 FPS 5.5 SD / 14 ES

4.2 grs 1066 FPS 10 SD / 27 ES

4.2 grs 1068 FPS 6.7 SD / 20 ES (1.120”)

4.3 grs 1072 FPS 8.9 SD / 32 ES

4.3 grs 1069 FPS 9.5 SD / 31 ES (1.120”)

4.5 grs 1098 FPS

4.6 grs 1106 FPS

 

Clean Shot M17

4.0 grs *

4.1 grs 1052 FPS 10.1 SD / 25 ES (1.120”)

4.2 grs 1063 FPS 7 SD / 18 ES (1.120”)

4.3 grs 1069 FPS 6.6 SD / 20 ES

4.3 grs 1071 FPS 11.4 SD / 36 ES (1.120”)

4.5 grs 1092 FPS

 

Clean Shot Shield

4.0 grs *

4.1 grs 985 FPS 9 SD / 27 ES (1.120”)

4.2 grs 985 FPS 8.5 SD / 28 ES (1.120”)

4.3 grs 1001 FPS 6 SD / 17 ES (1.120”)

4.5 grs 1024 FPS

 

 

125gr DG CN 

1.100” COAL

.376” crimp

 

Clean Shot G34

4.0 grs 1058 FPS 8.7 SD / 23 ES *

 

Clean Shot G17

4.0 grs 1064 FPS 5 SD / 11 ES*

 

Clean Shot M18

4.0 grs 1035 4.9 / 12*

 

Clean Shot G19X

4.0 grs 1049 4.8 / 14 *

 

Clean Shot P80 (G19)

4.0 grs 1048 FPS 11.5 SD / 29 ES *

 

 

125gr Precision FP 

1.100 COAL 

Crimp .376”

 

Clean Shot G34

4.0 grs 1059 FPS 4.6 SD / 15 ES *

 

Clean Shot G17

4.0 grs 1050 FPS 7.4 SD / 21 ES *

 

Clean Shot P80 (G19)

4.0 grs 1038 FPS 6.6 SD / 14 ES*

Awesome.  Thanks Yeah thats right where I want it   Appreciate the help

[hlsccsfa]

Been shooting clean shot with 125gr rn blue bullets for 2 years now. No major compliant except for one: when it rains on a match day, the pf will increase dramatically. My 133pf match load went straight to 139.8 in Mid Atlantic sectional in 2021, it rained hard that day. But, on a day like that, pf is the least of my concern. Just thought you might wanna know.

[ysrracer]

15 minutes ago, hlsccsfa said:

Been shooting clean shot with 125gr rn blue bullets for 2 years now. No major compliant except for one: when it rains on a match day, the pf will increase dramatically. My 133pf match load went straight to 139.8 in Mid Atlantic sectional in 2021, it rained hard that day. But, on a day like that, pf is the least of my concern. Just thought you might wanna know.

 

Interesting, I wonder why?

[hlsccsfa]

I can offer no explanation. My friend, a CRO, shot staff day of Area 8 two days ago. It also rained that day. His 133pf load turned out to be 139 at chrono as well. He also shoots Shadow 2, just like me. Everyone says this powder is reverse temperature sensitive, but in my experience, humidity plays a big role in its pf. 

[ddc]

Interesting. Anecdotal information though. I would be interested in what you found if you did a semi-scientific test of your theory.

[Joe4d]

well I am running AA#2  depending on year same powder,,, mine is pre hodgdon...
Chrono my match loads of 38 short in stupid hot miserable conditions but dry..
Can do a few this winter when its cold and rainy see what happens.

[oldfrank]

I am bringing this up again because failing the chrono at a major match has me scratching my head.

I Chronoed RMR 124 FMJ from a Sig 320 compact. 3.9 Cleanshot 1.035 oal.

I got an average of 950.3 117.8 PF

Same bullet/ same gun increased to 4.3 Gr Clean shot. Average 1018 126 PF

I increased to 4.5 Clean shot and figured PF would be 130+. I shot a Tisas 2011 4.5" BBL

123.5 was the best it would chrono at the match. They used one of the little Garmins, I used an older F1 Chrony!

 

I was sick and not understanding it at all.

 

I appreciate your thoughts.

[Braxton1]

This is easy:  CleanShot is NOTORIOUSLY "reverse temperature sensitive", meaning that the hotter it gets weather-wise, the "colder" the load will be.

 

If you develop your load in early March, it will likely go sub-Minor in August.  If you load-and-chrono in August, that same load will be pretty hot in December.

 

When I run the Chrono at major matches, I see this happen all the time with that powder.

[xrayfk05]

4.5 grains of Clean shot with a 124 bullet should easily make minor no matter what. (and it's actually over a max load).

All your velocities seem low to very low, are you sure the powder is Clean shot and your scale is accurate?

[ysrracer]

Published load data doesn't mean squat. It's a starting place that's all.

 

You HAVE GOT TO CHRONO YOUR OWN LOADS IN YOUR OWN GUN.

[392heminut]

40 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

Published load data doesn't mean squat. It's a starting place that's all.

 

You HAVE GOT TO CHRONO YOUR OWN LOADS IN YOUR OWN GUN.

^^^^That right there! Just because it chronos at a certain velocity doesn't mean it will do the same in another gun, even another identical gun. The barrels tolerances can have an effect on the velocity. That's also the reason why most of us shoot for a 130 PF just to have a little wiggle room. If you're going to try to sit right at the PF then don't be surprised when your loads fail to make PF at a match. As Braxton1 said, some powders are temp. sensitive.

[oldfrank]

I use a digital measure and back it up with an RCBS beam. 

I did chrono around 55 degrees and it was almost 90 at the chrono. 

I knew I was around max for that load. 

I used W231 for many years but won 5 lb of Cleanshot at a match. 

I always tried to be around 133 PF for a little cushion. 

I may go back to W231 when this jug is gone or even find something different. 

Thanks

[Joe4d]

1 hour ago, ysrracer said:

Published load data doesn't mean squat. It's a starting place that's all.

 

You HAVE GOT TO CHRONO YOUR OWN LOADS IN YOUR OWN GUN.

Seems like old frank did chrono his loads.. But used an F1,, the fold up shooting chrony,,, which I never had much faith in... and the match used the new Garmin. I think something is screwey though..
I cant see 4.5 grs of cleanshot under a 124 not making minor from a 4.5 barrel..
Never had much issue with temperature swings... Although thats probably because if it is freezing cold or sweltering hot, I am not shooting OR testing loads.

[shred]

Cleanshot can also vary lot to lot, so what works for one lot may not for the next, but temperature is huge.  Put some rounds in a bag in a cooler with some ice and leave some out in the sun or on a heater next time you chrono and see what they do.

 

FWIW. I put a Garmin side by side with a Labradar a week or two ago and they were very close on the same shots.  That same Labradar has been pretty close to the CED pair at Nationals more than once.

 

Garmin: 1070.9, 1047.5, 1095.7, 1079.9 1075.2

Labradar V0: 1071, 1047, 1091,  1079, 1072

 

[oldfrank]

Thanks. I double checked my digital against my RCBS with a round I pulled. Both were dead on 4.5. and that is a grain over max and I get 994 for velocity? 

 

[shred]

What load data are you using?  Why are you loading to 1.03" OAL?  Shooters World shows a max of 4.4 with a 124gr bullet at 1.100" OAL.  

 

I've had identical barrels shoot 10% faster or slower than each other let alone different brands with different rifling.

 

 

[oldfrank]

I was using the Shooters World Book and when I said the Max, I was going by memory which apparently is as weak as my Power Factor. 

I do not have another Sanctioned match till December. I will have it worked out by then. 

Is there a new better 9mm powder? Not Titegroup. All I have used is W231 mostly and now Cleanshot. 

 

[ysrracer]

14 hours ago, oldfrank said:

I was using the Shooters World Book and when I said the Max, I was going by memory which apparently is as weak as my Power Factor. 

I do not have another Sanctioned match till December. I will have it worked out by then. 

Is there a new better 9mm powder? Not Titegroup. All I have used is W231 mostly and now Cleanshot. 

 

 

I really like Win 244. Less snap than 231, faster velocity for the same weight.

Edited June 12 by ysrracer

[iflyskyhigh]

I live in AZ. Day time temps from 50°s in the winter to 110°+ in the summer. 4.0 grs with any 125gr lead bullet has given me 130ish PF. Regardless of weather. Out of multiple 4.5-5” barreled pistols. And this is over multiple 5 pound jugs from various lots.

Edited June 12 by iflyskyhigh

[iflyskyhigh]

On 6/10/2024 at 11:45 AM, oldfrank said:

I am bringing this up again because failing the chrono at a major match has me scratching my head.

I Chronoed RMR 124 FMJ from a Sig 320 compact. 3.9 Cleanshot 1.035 oal.

I got an average of 950.3 117.8 PF

Same bullet/ same gun increased to 4.3 Gr Clean shot. Average 1018 126 PF

I increased to 4.5 Clean shot and figured PF would be 130+. I shot a Tisas 2011 4.5" BBL

123.5 was the best it would chrono at the match. They used one of the little Garmins, I used an older F1 Chrony!

 

I was sick and not understanding it at all.

 

I appreciate your thoughts.

I went back and checked my data. 
 

Even out of my compact pistols (G19, Sig P320 Compact, etc) I’m getting 1030-1040 fps with the same load. Still almost 130 PF. 

 

I know the leaf bullets run a little hotter all things being equal. And all my barrels are nitrided. But all other things being equal that seems slow. 

Let me go back through my notes and see if I have any CS data for FMJ’s or JHP’s

[iflyskyhigh]

Okay.

 

i have shot but haven’t chrono’d the 4.5-5” guns. 
 

4.4grs CS with. Everglades 124gr PRN V2 is a laser out of everything I’ve tried it in. Which is odd cause I haven’t found plated bullets to be overly accurate except in 147 sub applications. But that’s a different topic. 

Out of the afore mentioned compact pistols that same load is 1040-1044 fps across various pistols. So plenty.

 

My qualifiers from my other statements hold true here as well.

 

Sometimes reloading produces unexpected results that defy explanation. 
 

 CS is a great economical powder. I’d say keep at it. You already have it. You’ll find something that works. 

Edited June 12 by iflyskyhigh