Inadequate Neck Tension with Precision Delta 147gr FMJ

[sk8242]

I'm currently loading 147gr. Blues in mixed head stamp brass as follows:

-9mm Lee dies

-Standard resizing die

-Case mouth flare to ~0.383"

-3.4gr AA#2

-OAL of ~1.135"

-Crimp to ~0.378"-0.379" (with a Lee FCD)

 

Recently ordered some evaluation packs from Precision Delta, specifically their 147gr RN FMJs.

I loaded up 25 or so test rounds after adjusting the powder charge, and changing the seating die to keep the OAL around ~1.135"

Almost every completed round had inadequate case neck tension, and allowed for relatively easy bullet set-back with a minimal to moderate amount of pressure.

I have a couple things I want to change and try first such as using a U-die to resize, and/or decreasing the case mouth flare.

But has anyone else run into a similar issue with these particular bullets, or loading FMJs in general? Any other suggestions?

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by sk8242

[Sinister4]

Lee U die 147 PD  6.4 3n38  1.150 170 ish pf  no issues, id suspect you need the U die for sure and check your crimp on jacketed too

Edited February 16, 2023 by Sinister4

[HesedTech]

It's your die selection.

 

Sizing die okay, FCD not so okay.

 

Here's what works:

If you want to stick with LEE:

U die for sizing.

Taper crimp only die not FCD. The FCD has a collar at the base which resizes the brass as it is coming down. 

 

I like Dillon or Redding Pro for resizing.

Dillon Taper crimp die.

 

I loaded about 20K of the Precision Delta FMJ before the price wasn't worth it to me. 

[Ssanders224]

If the projectiles are within dia. spec (it would be extremely rare that they wouldn't be), then the lack of case neck tension is simply due to loading practices. 

 

I always suggest a Lee or EGW U-die, and a touch of One Shot. I'm not a fan of the FCD. 

Using a standard crimp die, apply enough crimp that it leaves a LIGHTLY visible ring around a pulled bullet.

If you don't see a light ring, apply a touch more. If you can easily feel the ring with your fingernail, apply a little less. 

Attempting to measure the crimp isn't necessary. 

[shred]

Two other possibilities-- on a 1050 the swage backup rod expander can expand the brass too deeply after it's been resized, and the powder funnel can also if it has a straight section that's oversize.  

[Ssanders224]

3 minutes ago, shred said:

Two other possibilities-- on a 1050 the swage backup rod expander can expand the brass too deeply after it's been resized, and the powder funnel can also if it has a straight section that's oversize.  

 

The powder funnel / flare is a good suggestion. 

You need very minimal flare/bell for the FMJ's. Only enough that the bullet will just balance on the case. Any more is unnecessary and can/will affect case tension. 

[sk8242]

Thanks for the suggestions so far. 

I think I'll start with the U-die first and just change one thing at a time to see if I am able to figure out exactly where the issue is.

[ddc]

Do the Precision Delta's mike at 0.355" ?

Typically the FCD causes problems with bullets sized larger than 0.355".

 

I use it with RMR 124 FMJ with no problem.

 

I know people have a love/hate relationship with the FCD but with the right sized bullets it works just fine.

 

My gut reaction when I hear about bullets getting setback too easily is that you should look to sizing issues first.

[iflyskyhigh]

Because of the shape of a 9mm case, LFCD will not swage bullet, nor will it affect neck tension.

 

The carbide ring doesn’t even touch the upper part of the case.  If it’s touching the upper part of the case you have other sizing issues.

 

This applies to 9mm only with the FCD. Other cases and bullets will be effected by FCD. 

 

U die is the bee knees for range pick up brass. Especially because of the variation in 9mm cases that you don’t find in other pistol cases.

[HesedTech]

14 hours ago, iflyskyhigh said:

LFCD will not swage bullet

I have found this statement to be false. When loading deep seated 147s a .356 147 seated to 1.10 OAL will, not might, have the bullet swaged smaller. Why? Because the brass is tapered in thickness as it approaches the base, in particular CBC brass is the thickest of all and will bulge with the 147s. 

 

The FCD reforms that bulge and as the brass springs back a bit leaves the softer lead smaller than the brass. I know this from first hand experience and will never use the Lee FCD on 9mm. It is an attempt top fix a problem which should be fixed in the process and not post reloading.

 

 

[HOGRIDER]

2 hours ago, HesedTech said:

I have found this statement to be false. When loading deep seated 147s a .356 147 seated to 1.10 OAL will, not might, have the bullet swaged smaller. Why? Because the brass is tapered in thickness as it approaches the base, in particular CBC brass is the thickest of all and will bulge with the 147s. 

 

The FCD reforms that bulge and as the brass springs back a bit leaves the softer lead smaller than the brass. I know this from first hand experience and will never use the Lee FCD on 9mm. It is an attempt top fix a problem which should be fixed in the process and not post reloading.

 

 

[ddc]

What about the following experiment?

 

Screw the crimp stem down as far as possible until it stops and basically locks up.

 

Then adjust your crimp by moving the body of the die up or down as necessary.

 

In theory that will minimize the impact of the sizing ring on your finished round.

 

Ok, fire away guys! lol...

[12glocks]

I normally use PD 147 FMJ for my 9mm gamer loads.  I loaded about 3600 Bayou coated bullets when things were hard to come by.  I found I had to really flair the case a lot to get that Bayou seated without scraping the coating and other problems that prohibited the round from dropping in the gauge.

 

I would check and make sure your resized case drops in a case gauge first.  I bet it will.  Then I would flair the case the bare minimum needed to put a bullet in it. I suspect this may fix your problem.  I think there are essentially different die setups for coated and genuine copper-jacketed bullets.

 

I have used Dillon and Lee sizing dies with no problems.

[zzt]

The first thing I would check is bullet diameter.  Also, the info you got on the FCD is incorrect.  Because the 9mm case is tapered, there is no sizing ring at the bottom of the die.  It is at the top and resizes the top of the case.   It WILL swage a coated bullet down to .355" as it crimps.  I use an FCD for 9mm (and every other caliber I load).  I seat separately and use the FCD for crimp only.

 

I'll also say your flare is too wide.  Too wide a flare cannot be corrected and you lose neck tension.  Found that out the hard way.  Now I use a two-step expander/funnel with zero flair.  It works with jacketed and coated.  The bullet drops straight in and stays that was as the shell plate turns.  Mine happens to be a Mr. Bulletfeeder.  I think Lee makes one also.

[HesedTech]

3 hours ago, ddc said:

Ok, fire away guys! lol...

 

Why not just buy the taper crimp die, Lee, Dillon or some other brand, instead of jury rigging the FCD?

 

Couldn’t help myself. 

[HOGRIDER]

4 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

 

Why not just buy the taper crimp die, Lee, Dillon or some other brand, instead of jury rigging the FCD?

 

Couldn’t help myself. 

Agree 100%!

 

IMO, especially when using mixed range brass, a simple taper crimp die should be all that's needed as long as sizing and expansion are done correctly.

 

[zzt]

Geez, the OP's problem is excessive flaring.  That CANNOT be corrected by the seating dies or the crimp die.  I load everything using Hornady dies, except for the crimp die.  No flare with the proper expander is the corresc solution.

 

I load minor to 1.45" OAL for no other reason than it works in my PCC and Open minor gun.  I load 115s to major with 10.8gr SWMMP powder @ 1.161"  OAL.  I cannot push on the counter hard enough to get setback.  I cannot tap hard enough with a 2 oz. gunsmith hammer to get setback.  Believe me.  With a 115 JHP going in excess of 1520fps, it was a concern.

[lll Otto lll]

Operator error.  And I would suggest disposing of the FCD in the dumpster. 

[Farmer]

On 2/17/2023 at 3:09 PM, zzt said:

The first thing I would check is bullet diameter.  Also, the info you got on the FCD is incorrect.  Because the 9mm case is tapered, there is no sizing ring at the bottom of the die.  It is at the top and resizes the top of the case.   It WILL swage a coated bullet down to .355" as it crimps.  I use an FCD for 9mm (and every other caliber I load).  I seat separately and use the FCD for crimp only.

 

I'll also say your flare is too wide.  Too wide a flare cannot be corrected and you lose neck tension.  Found that out the hard way.  Now I use a two-step expander/funnel with zero flair.  It works with jacketed and coated.  The bullet drops straight in and stays that was as the shell plate turns.  Mine happens to be a Mr. Bulletfeeder.  I think Lee makes one also.

Yours must be different than mine as mine has a ring at the bottom. 

[zzt]

16 hours ago, Farmer said:

Yours must be different than mine as mine has a ring at the bottom. 

 

My die has a ring like that also, but it doesn't size.  It is there to locate the base of the case so the crimp is concentric.  You can tell where it resizes because the brass is shiny.  Only at the top for about 3/8" or so.  The ring at the bottom doesn't fix a Glock bulge if the sizing die didn't get all of it.  The FCD in 40sw and 45 do, because they size all the way down.

[Farmer]

Ok, I thought you meant that yours didn’t have that carbide ring in it. And yes, beings the 9 is tapered it’ll only size towards the bottom OR if the case bulges from a crooked seat job, oversized bullet or thick case/oversized bullet combo. Then that’s where I’ve seen it cause the bullet mash problem.  Agree with the op’s problem of over expanding or possibly the expander isn’t tapered enough at the mouth. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Farmer

[ddc]

On 2/17/2023 at 7:06 PM, lll Otto lll said:

Operator error.  And I would suggest disposing of the FCD in the dumpster. 

 

Maybe you're joking. If you are, great.

 

Otherwise it's not that simple.

 

Many of us use the FCD with absolutely no problems.

As has been noted using the FCD on other than .355 FMJ may not be optimal.

That leaves a whole lot of reloading where the FCD works just fine.

 

Yes, the FCD is a hot button topic for sure.