New FTP Optics Alpha 3 - V2!

[mrvip27]

6 hours ago, IronicTwitch said:

This makes no sense to me. The dot is only projected to the same location on the glass.  Trying to figure out can the human eye see the dot refresh rate and that makes it appear like multiple dots to you?  I haven't heard of anyone seeing this phenomenon with a red dot before so I'm curious.

 

Maybe its just my eyes then not sure if refresh rate is the correct word

Edited May 28, 2023 by mrvip27

[FTP_Shooting_Sports]

None of our staff or sponsored shooters can see this issue nor were we able to record it in slow motion so it is not something that most people appear to be able to see. When it comes to vision, everyone is different.

 

 

[mreed911]

Refresh rate is a common issue with dots.  What’s the rate on yours at different brightness levels?

 

 

[CHA-LEE]

I can replicate the observed dot flickering scenario if I aggressively shake the gun horizontally (twisting my wrist while holding the gun strong hand only). I can also replicate this if I aggressively turn my whole head away from the sights to the next target in an excessive manner. I have yet to see this dot flickering scenario while actually shooting the gun or transitioning between targets. I also use a physical structure behind the gun where everything except for my eyes are locked up with the point of the gun. For example, during a transition I flick only my eyes to the next target then my whole upper body moves as a single unit to get the gun onto the next target. This is how its supposed to happen when you drive the transition movement with your legs instead of your head and arms.

[Rich406]

On 5/27/2023 at 1:31 PM, IronicTwitch said:

This makes no sense to me. The dot is only projected to the same location on the glass.  Trying to figure out can the human eye see the dot refresh rate and that makes it appear like multiple dots to you?  I haven't heard of anyone seeing this phenomenon with a red dot before so I'm curious.

Several people have mentioned this issue, specifically with this optic. 
Personally, I’ve never noticed any sort of issue with the dot “skipping”

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

I have two of these on open guns and one on a glock 34 for CO.   I’ve never once had this issue that people are talking about.   

[mrvip27]

22 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

I can replicate the observed dot flickering scenario if I aggressively shake the gun horizontally (twisting my wrist while holding the gun strong hand only). I can also replicate this if I aggressively turn my whole head away from the sights to the next target in an excessive manner. I have yet to see this dot flickering scenario while actually shooting the gun or transitioning between targets. I also use a physical structure behind the gun where everything except for my eyes are locked up with the point of the gun. For example, during a transition I flick only my eyes to the next target then my whole upper body moves as a single unit to get the gun onto the next target. This is how its supposed to happen when you drive the transition movement with your legs instead of your head and arms.

 

Thank you for letting us know you can replicate it like I can. Noted on the transitions.

[FTP_Shooting_Sports]

We have reached out to our manufacturer to get the refresh rate but I am not sure it is going to mean much to people as optically, you either see it or you don't and the vast majority of people do not see it and it does not affect their shooting at all.

 

As a side note, for those people that want the BIG dots, we have 11 of the 10 MOA dots left in stock. They seem to be getting more popular :)

[Rich406]

I was able to replicate this issue using the chalee method of wiggling the gun really fast with 1 hand. I tried it with a romeo3 and sure enough, it was a solid line. 
 

That said, I can’t think of a single instance I’ve seen this while actually shooting the gun. To my eyes atleast, it’s a non issue. 
 

I’ve been using the alpha3 for awhile now and I prefer it over the romeo3 that I’ve been using for years. I have a bit of lens flaring that was a side effect of early 90s lasik surgery, and I am very sensitive to brightness blooming the dot. I’m able to adjust it just right in varying light conditions.

 

My only gripe is that when shooting indoors, or dry firing in my basement, the dot is a bit too bright at the minimum setting. 

[CHA-LEE]

5 hours ago, Rich406 said:

I was able to replicate this issue using the chalee method of wiggling the gun really fast with 1 hand. I tried it with a romeo3 and sure enough, it was a solid line. 
 

That said, I can’t think of a single instance I’ve seen this while actually shooting the gun. To my eyes atleast, it’s a non issue. 
 

I’ve been using the alpha3 for awhile now and I prefer it over the romeo3 that I’ve been using for years. I have a bit of lens flaring that was a side effect of early 90s lasik surgery, and I am very sensitive to brightness blooming the dot. I’m able to adjust it just right in varying light conditions.

 

My only gripe is that when shooting indoors, or dry firing in my basement, the dot is a bit too bright at the minimum setting. 

Use slightly tinted lenses while shooting indoors or dry firing. That will chill out the brightness of the dot. If you are sensitive to the blooming try a bigger MOA dot. I really like the 10 MOA FTP Alpha 3 dot. Its a crisp circle with zero flare when I have it set at the proper brightness level.

[mrvip27]

On 6/2/2023 at 3:30 PM, Rich406 said:

I was able to replicate this issue using the chalee method of wiggling the gun really fast with 1 hand. I tried it with a romeo3 and sure enough, it was a solid line. 
 

That said, I can’t think of a single instance I’ve seen this while actually shooting the gun. To my eyes atleast, it’s a non issue. 
 

I’ve been using the alpha3 for awhile now and I prefer it over the romeo3 that I’ve been using for years. I have a bit of lens flaring that was a side effect of early 90s lasik surgery, and I am very sensitive to brightness blooming the dot. I’m able to adjust it just right in varying light conditions.

 

My only gripe is that when shooting indoors, or dry firing in my basement, the dot is a bit too bright at the minimum setting. 

 

Well at least I can know its replicated.

 

As I mentioned, USPSA I never notice it...its only really bugging me on my steel challenge rimfire gun.

[FTP_Shooting_Sports]

Our manufacturer explained the emitter used PWM to control the brightness. This pulses the emitter at a frequency that is faster than humans (or the vast majority) can see. For whatever reason, a couple of you can see this. The brighter you have the optic, the less it will be pulsed and at full brightness, it does  not pulse at all. It's possible to have a board that does not do this but at increased cost and shorter battery life and given that it's not a common issue, we cannot see as something will be looking at solving when we have other more useful upgrades we would like to do with the product life cycle.

 

 

[mrvip27]

17 hours ago, FTP_Shooting_Sports said:

Our manufacturer explained the emitter used PWM to control the brightness. This pulses the emitter at a frequency that is faster than humans (or the vast majority) can see. For whatever reason, a couple of you can see this. The brighter you have the optic, the less it will be pulsed and at full brightness, it does  not pulse at all. It's possible to have a board that does not do this but at increased cost and shorter battery life and given that it's not a common issue, we cannot see as something will be looking at solving when we have other more useful upgrades we would like to do with the product life cycle.

 

 

 

Well I appreciate the feedback. And understood!

[Rich406]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:37 PM, CHA-LEE said:

Use slightly tinted lenses while shooting indoors or dry firing. That will chill out the brightness of the dot. If you are sensitive to the blooming try a bigger MOA dot. I really like the 10 MOA FTP Alpha 3 dot. It’s a crisp circle with zero flare when I have it set at the proper brightness level.

To satisfy my curiosity, I ordered a 10moa to try. The dot flickering is plainly visible during shooting with the 10. Given FTPs explanation, I’d say it’s a combo of the bigger dot and lower average brightness setting that causes it to be more noticeable. 
 

That said, it didn’t affect my shooting one bit. And it was only really noticeable if I was consciously looking for it. If you are shooting with target focus like you should be, I doubt anyone would notice at all.  
 

the 10 moa is interesting, in broad daylight, I really liked it. But it’ll likely cause me issues in my basement. The tinted lenses thing wouldn’t work for me, once my eye is dilated past a certain point, that’s when I have the issues. 

[CHA-LEE]

1 hour ago, Rich406 said:

To satisfy my curiosity, I ordered a 10moa to try. The dot flickering is plainly visible during shooting with the 10. Given FTPs explanation, I’d say it’s a combo of the bigger dot and lower average brightness setting that causes it to be more noticeable. 
 

That said, it didn’t affect my shooting one bit. And it was only really noticeable if I was consciously looking for it. If you are shooting with target focus like you should be, I doubt anyone would notice at all.  
 

the 10 moa is interesting, in broad daylight, I really liked it. But it’ll likely cause me issues in my basement. The tinted lenses thing wouldn’t work for me, once my eye is dilated past a certain point, that’s when I have the issues. 

 

I use Photochromatic Purple Lenses made by Rudy Project. They end up being the perfect tint level regardless of lighting conditions for me. They look much darker in the mirror vs what I see through the lenses. When I shoot indoors or Dry Fire indoors I turn the brightness to the lowest setting and use those Purple lens glasses and it chills out the dot brightness to an acceptable level. I would prefer one notch dimmer if it would go lower. But I wouldn't want that to sacrifice the usable brightness levels outdoors. When I am shooting outdoors I usually have the brightness 2 - 4 levels down from the brightest setting depending on the overall lighting conditions.

[FTP_Shooting_Sports]

The PWM control frequency is 1 kHz which should be outside of the majority of people's vision detection. Obviously a few if you have super eyes!

 

We just filmed the dot in 240 FPS and you cannot see any flicker.

 

With the larger dot, people will typically use less brightness which means the PWM would be more in effect. As you turn the brightness up, the dot will turn on and off quicker until full brightness where it never turns off.

We just have 6 of the 10 MOA dots in stock. It seems word has gotten out that bigger is better for some people

[mreed911]

4 hours ago, FTP_Shooting_Sports said:

We just filmed the dot in 240 FPS and you cannot see any flicker.

 

Move the dot quickly side to side at half intensity or lower (ideally the lowest intensity) and see what happens.  It's the lower intensity where brightness is controlled by fewer pulses at the 1K rate (one every 6-8 clock cycles) it becomes noticeable.

[mrvip27]

11 hours ago, mreed911 said:

 

Move the dot quickly side to side at half intensity or lower (ideally the lowest intensity) and see what happens.  It's the lower intensity where brightness is controlled by fewer pulses at the 1K rate (one every 6-8 clock cycles) it becomes noticeable.

 

This.

[FTP_Shooting_Sports]

We still have 6 of the 10 MOA dots left in stock. The cutoff is 5:00 pm this Friday for our U.S shipment that will arrive Wed-Thursday the followign week at your door.

 

 

[RGC]

10MOA?....Hmm.

[FTP_Shooting_Sports]

5 hours ago, RGC said:

10MOA?....Hmm.

 

We still have some left but they are going at a faster rate than usual :)

[mreed911]

On 6/14/2023 at 10:32 AM, RGC said:

10MOA?....Hmm.

 

I have a competitor's 11MOA and love it.  If you're looking at their stuff, 10MOA is great for USPSA.

[FTP_Shooting_Sports]

Just a reminder that our cutoff for out shipment that would arrive in the U.S next week is this Friday at 5:00 CST. Any order placed before then will arrived Wednesday-Thursday or next week

 

You could be enjoying a big dot by next weekend!

 

 

[FTP_Shooting_Sports]

We will be posting a list of refurbished FTP Alpha 3 Optics for sale in the next day in our dealer forum. These will come with the balance of factory warranty. The glass is always perfect but they may have some cosmetic marks that do not affect functionality. It's a great opportunity to try one of our optics for a lower price

 

Subscribe to the thread in the dealer forum to get notification!

[FTP_Shooting_Sports]

A list of refurbished units has been posted in our dealer forum. They usually sell out fast!