Canik Rival Magazine "Over-Insertion"

[hermes_actual]

I'm having a magazine issue. I'm using 18 round Canik mags with Taylor Freelance +4 extensions. Haven't tested with stock bases. The problem is the magazine can be "over-inserted" to the point that the back of the feed lip prevents the slide from going into battery. Just curious if anyone has seen this.

Edited January 16, 2023 by hermes_actual
clarity

[CHA-LEE]

Don't smash mags into the gun with the slide locked back when using mags with extended base pads. Most of the factory length mags use the rim of the base pad to butt up against the bottom of the grip to prevent over insertion. If you are using the gun for Competition, such as Carry Optics and you have 23+1 capacity, then you SHOULDN'T be running the gun dry to slide lock during a stage run. If you are, then you have much more important issues to fix first.

[hermes_actual]

12 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

Don't smash mags into the gun with the slide locked back when using mags with extended base pads. Most of the factory length mags use the rim of the base pad to butt up against the bottom of the grip to prevent over insertion. If you are using the gun for Competition, such as Carry Optics and you have 23+1 capacity, then you SHOULDN'T be running the gun dry to slide lock during a stage run. If you are, then you have much more important issues to fix first.

Thanks for this. I did have an important issue at a match this weekend... 

[CHA-LEE]

For High Cap divisions which use extended base pad mags its actually better to disable the Slide Lock Back function so that you don't run into this over insertion issue. If the slide doesn't lock back then you can smash the mags in the gun without causing any issues.

[hermes_actual]

4 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

For High Cap divisions which use extended base pad mags its actually better to disable the Slide Lock Back function so that you don't run into this over insertion issue. If the slide doesn't lock back then you can smash the mags in the gun without causing any issues.

Good idea. Is there a rational for not making the extensions over-insertion-proof?

[GigG]

6 minutes ago, hermes_actual said:

Good idea. Is there a rational for not making the extensions over-insertion-proof?

 

Yep.  Because doing so could easily insertion-proof. 

[hermes_actual]

3 minutes ago, GigG said:

 

Yep.  Because doing so could easily insertion-proof. 

Right. Not disagreeing, but if factory mags avoid this issue, it seems like extension could too since they are magazine specific.

[GigG]

1 minute ago, hermes_actual said:

Right. Not disagreeing, but if factory mags avoid this issue, it seems like extension could too since they are magazine specific.

 

The only reason factory mags avoid the issue is that there isn't as much hanging out the bottom that allows you to over insert.

 

It is completely possible to over insert the factory mag. You just have to work harder to do it.

 

 

[hermes_actual]

5 minutes ago, GigG said:

 

The only reason factory mags avoid the issue is that there isn't as much hanging out the bottom that allows you to over insert.

 

It is completely possible to over insert the factory mag. You just have to work harder to do it.

 

 

Got it. Thanks for educating me!

[CHA-LEE]

Its difficult for after market base pad manufactures to make the top portion of the base pad bottom out on the grip because they don't know if the gun will have a magwell or not. Not to mention all of the different grip profile and lengths to deal with. Accept the facts that "Race Gun" parts are for "Race Guns". In a normal use case you don't run a high cap "Race Gun" dry before doing a reload. Accept the fact that if you shoot your gun dry during a stage run that you have done something way wrong already and disabling the slide lock function will keep you from wasting more stage time by then dealing with an over insertion jam.

[hermes_actual]

51 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

Its difficult for after market base pad manufactures to make the top portion of the base pad bottom out on the grip because they don't know if the gun will have a magwell or not. Not to mention all of the different grip profile and lengths to deal with. Accept the facts that "Race Gun" parts are for "Race Guns". In a normal use case you don't run a high cap "Race Gun" dry before doing a reload. Accept the fact that if you shoot your gun dry during a stage run that you have done something way wrong already and disabling the slide lock function will keep you from wasting more stage time by then dealing with an over insertion jam.

Makes total sense. Thanks again.

[Tip3008]

On 1/16/2023 at 3:19 PM, CHA-LEE said:

Accept the facts that "Race Gun" parts are for "Race Guns". In a normal use case you don't run a high cap "Race Gun" dry before doing a reload. Accept the fact that if you shoot your gun dry during a stage run that you have done something way wrong already and disabling the slide lock function will keep you from wasting more stage time by then dealing with an over insertion jam.

I mean… In IDPA you are reloading from slide lock quite often so slide lock reloading actually is a big part of that.. 

[Boss1622]

On 1/16/2023 at 10:10 AM, hermes_actual said:

I'm having a magazine issue. I'm using 18 round Canik mags with Taylor Freelance +4 extensions. Haven't tested with stock bases. The problem is the magazine can be "over-inserted" to the point that the back of the feed lip prevents the slide from going into battery. Just curious if anyone has seen this.

Yes, I working on the same issue. By the way the "Don't Smash your Magazine in so hard" doesn't fly. I shot a local USPSA match this weekend, I carefully inserted the magazines and I had this malfunction on 3 of 6 stages with 3 different magazines. Each time the slide got stuck on magazine I was 6-12 rounds into the magazine. This show's me that the magazine can move up high enough to interfere while shooting. 

[WxGuy]

From the OP's pic, is this the only gun having this issue, the poly Rival?  I have TF +4s on my mags running them in a TP9 SFX and a Rival S without issues.

Besides the mag base pads, are the mag catch holes somehow drilled in the wrong spot on the Canik mags?  

I pulled two of my mags and found a difference.  Could the basepads and the .1005 difference combined be the issue?

 

1.1280 is the Mec-Gar and the 1.2285 is the Canik.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by WxGuy

[jpm2953]

5 hours ago, WxGuy said:

From the OP's pic, is this the only gun having this issue, the poly Rival?  I have TF +4s on my mags running them in a TP9 SFX and a Rival S without issues.

Besides the mag base pads, are the mag catch holes somehow drilled in the wrong spot on the Canik mags?  

I pulled two of my mags and found a difference.  Could the basepads and the .1005 difference combined be the issue?

 

1.1280 is the Mec-Gar and the 1.2285 is the Canik.

 

 

Double check your reading. It’s .010” off. 

[WxGuy]

It was early and only after 1/2 cup of coffee!  

[jpm2953]

So my gun has this issue too. Didn’t notice it til an IDPA match. My gun will auto forward and the slide would hang up on the back of the magazine. 
 

you can see in the picture of the bottom of my slide, the magazine rear lip was rubbing pretty good. 
 

a quick stint with a dremel fixed the issue. Some required a tiny bit and some required a lot. Just a bummer I had to grind on all my $35 magazines. 
 

this happened with the mecgar plastic basepads, the aluminum canik basepads and some henning basepads. 

[AlienZ]

So the MBX Competition mags fix this issue! Just confirmed it myself.

[telligentgunner]

From MBX's website about their new Canik competition magazines:

 

"Our new competition design on the Canik tightens up the mag catch slot tolerance. This prevents the factory mag catch and the magazine from over insertion causing any ejector or feed lip damage."

[MjS82001]

I was having problems when shooting from prone or resting gun on bench. The magazine would push up against the slide causing a ftf. I used some rubber o rings on the base and that solved the problem.

[telligentgunner]

I should be getting my gun back from warranty service and here's what they said they did:

• Mag catch fit
• Ejector function
• Tested fired 18rds
• Replaced slide stop spring
• Checked FCG

Not sure if this is going to fix magazines being able to be overinserted or the failure to extract issue, but we'll see. 

 

FYI, their customer service SUCKS.  You have to pick up the phone and call someone (maybe multiple times) if you want anything resolved. 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by telligentgunner

[SufferInSilence]

Is this still an ongoing issue? Is there a meaningful fix out there other than buying different mags? 
 

I impulse purchased this gun and like it, I maxed it out with all the cool-guy parts and sighted it in and it’s been a safe-queen since.  

Now hearing about this I don’t wanna put rounds through it just to wanna dump it if it’s not gonna work.  

[jpm2953]

3 minutes ago, SufferInSilence said:

Is this still an ongoing issue? Is there a meaningful fix out there other than buying different mags? 
 

I impulse purchased this gun and like it, I maxed it out with all the cool-guy parts and sighted it in and it’s been a safe-queen since.  

Now hearing about this I don’t wanna put rounds through it just to wanna dump it if it’s not gonna work.  

I sent canik an email and they are sending me a new mag release. I’ve already modified all my mags so I don’t have the issue anymore but it will be good to have the updated part. 

[SufferInSilence]

2 minutes ago, jpm2953 said:

I sent canik an email and they are sending me a new mag release. I’ve already modified all my mags so I don’t have the issue anymore but it will be good to have the updated part. 

So is it looking like that is the issue? Just a simple fix with a new mag release having diff dimensions? 

 

Get us some pics of the difference between the two of you can.  
 

Also the MBX mags claim to take care of the mag release issue.  I wonder if guys will have issues running them with a different Canik mag release… 
 

 

[Slow250]

I've been running the MBX mags for about 1500 rounds. I just had the first issue this week running one, and it was pretty bad, multiple hang ups in one mag. Not sure if this is due to the gun being more broken in. I had switched to the polymer rival since it was more reliable than the S. I'm about to order some of the 215 O-rings and try those with the standard mags (with henning pads/MBX guts). If that doesn't solve the issue I'll probably stop using the platform for now. It sucks, because I really like, but have limited patience for malfunctions.