SW 617 extreme leading

[kellymc]

I recently purchased a 617-6 used. After 30 rounds there enough leading in the first 1/4 inch of the barrel you can’t see the rifling.  After 80 rounds a cleaning rod won’t go down the chamber.   There’s no lead anywhere except inside. Look for any ideas on this disappointing issue.

[Bill Sahlberg]

I use CCI 40gr HPs and gun barrel stays clean enough to shoot 200 rnds before the leading occurs.

 

I also opened my cylinder gap from .0006" to .0010" that really helped on smooth running of the cylinder at my 14 lb trigger pull

 

[ysrracer]

Some of them need the cylinder reamed and the forcing cone cleaned up.

[kellymc]

Thanks for these reply’s 

[gargoil66]

KM:

 

Had a leading problem with my 625 too.  Over the years, have leaded a lot of barrels too.

 

Be prepared to do some work to get the lead out.  It has to be out before you can do anything else.

 

Get as much out with a steel or stiff bronze brush as I can.  There is a steel brush called a 'Tornado' made by Hoppes that for me did a better job than bristles.  There are various pull through lead removers that use a small bronze pad but they are damn near impossible to pull through.  I get as much out with the steel brush as I can.

 

There will probably be some lead left smeared on the lands and in the groves.  If so, I have used a mixture of equal parts Hydrogen Pyroxide and White Vinegar as a solution that is the best lead remover I have found.  Will soak a patch, scrub, let sit for maybe five minutes, then brush again.  May have to do it a number of times and never leave that stuff sitting for more than a few minutes because it is pretty hard on metal.  If you do not need this measure, do not use it is my advice.  

 

For my 625 I used a fire lapping kit consisting of three abrasive levels of lapping compound and a little steel plate.  Put the compound on the plate, roll the bullets in it to get the stuff into the lead, load about ten of each grade and shoot them.  I cleaned between each level of abrasiveness.  Never had a problem leading the 625 again.

 

Since it is a .22, fire lapping would be problematic in my opinion but I would absolutely polish the barrel and each chamber.  I would first try JB bore paste on a patch attached to a .17 cal rod section inserted in a power drill and work it in and out of the barrel with attention paid to the throat.  Also each chamber.  If the JB didn't work, then I would go with fire lapping compound.  May try it on the .22's before the rod and patch.

 

Another barrel leaving the factory without being inspected.  

 

I do not envy you at all. 

 

GG

 

 

 

 

 

Gobsmacked once again.  This actually worked.  Never had a problem with leading the 625 again

[Toolguy]

Do not use anything on a power drill in the barrel! That will wash out the rifling. You can do that on the chambers and be OK. For the barrel, you can lap it by using the brush with patch not screwed on tight to the cleaning rod. Leave it a couple of threads loose so the brush can follow the rifling grooves as you run it in and out. Probably need to cut the forcing cone bigger, mainly.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Toolguy

[Tampa-XD45]

Has anyone in revoland tried the Lewis Lead removal system?

https://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/patches-mops/lead-remover/lewis-lead-remover-prod21587.aspx

 

One of the pull-through lead remover that gargoil66 references.

 

[AzShooter]

Doesn't come small enough for .22s.

 

[Fishbreath]

1 hour ago, Tampa-XD45 said:

Has anyone in revoland tried the Lewis Lead removal system?

 

I have one for my .38/.357/9mm guns. It takes enough elbow grease that I try to avoid using it, but not so much that it's a disaster if I make a batch of overcrimped ammo.

[gargoil66]

4 hours ago, Toolguy said:

Do not use anything on a power drill in the barrel! That will wash out the rifling. You can do that on the chambers and be OK. For the barrel, you can lap it by using leaving the brush with patch not screwed on tight to the cleaning rod. Leave it a couple of threads loose so the brush can follow the rifling grooves as you run it in and out. Probably need to cut the forcing cone bigger, mainly.

Correct!

 

My mistake.   If you use the rod and patch with lapping compound, don't do it to the rifling.  Only the throat and chambers. 

 

I doubt that pulling a patch through on a rod section will remove the lead unless a guy spends a few days doing it.  Will need chemicals and lead removal brushes.

 

Not a pleasant task at all. 

 

GG

[gargoil66]

2 hours ago, Tampa-XD45 said:

Has anyone in revoland tried the Lewis Lead removal system?

https://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/patches-mops/lead-remover/lewis-lead-remover-prod21587.aspx

 

One of the pull-through lead remover that gargoil66 references.

 

I have used it for .44 many decades ago.  Either Lewis made the screen or plug too big or Smith and Wesson made the bore too small but it was such a PITA to pull through that I remember it to this day.  It did remove lead though.  Could see it imbedded in the screen.  Didn't matter how many times I pulled that thing through the barrel, it was as hard the last time as the first.  Didn't totally remove the lead but got a bunch out.

 

And the lie about shooting some jacketed bullets through the barrel.  They did a good job of smearing the lead down the barrel but didn't take it out.

 

Someone used to market a chemical they claimed would remove lead back then.  May have been Hoppes.  Total failure.  

 

I would probably try firelapping using some lead .22's.  May not work but that is one thing that probably won't hurt anything either. 

 

Not envious.

 

GG

 

 

[anachronism]

Go to the grocery store and buy a package of copper Chore-Boy pot scrubbers, they come two in a package. There are also stainless steel Chore-Boy scrubbers. Do not buy them for this.  Don't buy another brand because it's cheaper, many of those are stainless steel with a copper wash over them. It must be the copper Chore-Boy, stainless steel will damage your barrel. Chore-Boy is a woven pot scrubber that you can snip a small section off and wrap it around an old bore brush, try to get a few strands out of it about two inches long.

 

Wet the bore with your choice of bore cleaner and push the brush with the copper Chore-Boy through the bore, back and forth a few times. The copper strands will literally cut the leading out of the bore, and works just as well on leaded cylinder throats as well. Repeat as many times as you wish, then finish with your standard cleaning routine.

[gargoil66]

8 hours ago, anachronism said:

Go to the grocery store and buy a package of copper Chore-Boy pot scrubbers, they come two in a package. There are also stainless steel Chore-Boy scrubbers. Do not buy them for this.  Don't buy another brand because it's cheaper, many of those are stainless steel with a copper wash over them. It must be the copper Chore-Boy, stainless steel will damage your barrel. Chore-Boy is a woven pot scrubber that you can snip a small section off and wrap it around an old bore brush, try to get a few strands out of it about two inches long.

 

Wet the bore with your choice of bore cleaner and push the brush with the copper Chore-Boy through the bore, back and forth a few times. The copper strands will literally cut the leading out of the bore, and works just as well on leaded cylinder throats as well. Repeat as many times as you wish, then finish with your standard cleaning routine.

 

ANA:

 

I tried this with the 625 with what I thought was a copper scrubber.  Didn't work.  Wasn't Chore Boy though.  Thanks for the info.

 

A guy can get the lead out of a bore with some work but once out, what can he do with a .22 caliber revolver to ensure it doesn't lead again? I would bet that using copper washed bullets will only result in a lot of copper with the lead coating the barrel.  

 

About the only thing I know of is lapping the forcing cone, barrel, and probably the chambers.  

 

Anyone here got any other ideas?  

 

GG

 

 

[Toolguy]

Usually cutting the forcing cone bigger with the proper cutter helps the most. If the forcing cone is too small, lapping won't do it. Every gun is different. This one may need to be retimed or the barrel lapped or something else. Best to take or send it to a good revo smith to fix it. This is not the sort of thing easily diagnosed without the gun on the bench.

[gargoil66]

2 hours ago, Toolguy said:

Usually cutting the forcing cone bigger with the proper cutter helps the most. If the forcing cone is too small, lapping won't do it. Every gun is different. This one may need to be retimed or the barrel lapped or something else. Best to take or send it to a good revo smith to fix it. This is not the sort of thing easily diagnosed without the gun on the bench.

Warren:

 

No way he can diagnose the problem himself?  

 

I don't mind at all sending my firearms to a reputable gunsmith but before I go that step, I want to do what is within my ability and knowledge to find out the problem first. 

 

Surely he can do something to figure out why he is getting leading.  

 

GG

[Toolguy]

I would start with cleaning the barrel and chambers to get all the lead out. Then recut the forcing cone a little bigger. Then shoot and evaluate.

[Farmer]

I’ve used the chore boy for years with very good success. I did accidentally use one of the copper washed SS ones and it also worked fine with no damage that I could see even with a magnifier. Have also lapped 22 by just putting a small dab of compound on the nose of the bullet. Best to use low vel or subsonic plain lead. It helped but boy is it a mess. For polishing parts, triggers and any other stuff, Mothers mag Wheel polish is the cat’s butt. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Farmer

[kellymc]

23 hours ago, Toolguy said:

Usually cutting the forcing cone bigger with the proper cutter helps the most. If the forcing cone is too small, lapping won't do it. Every gun is different. This one may need to be retimed or the barrel lapped or something else. Best to take or send it to a good revo smith to fix it. This is not the sort of thing easily diagnosed without the gun on the bench.

Thanks. This is the route I’ll take . Right now I have my GS replacing a Dan Wesson 9mm barrel because the factory cut the chamber way to deep. It’s not been a good month for my used gun purchases. Thanks for all the reply’s

Edited January 8, 2023 by kellymc

[gargoil66]

13 hours ago, Farmer said:

I’ve used the chore boy for years with very good success. I did accidentally use one of the copper washed SS ones and it also worked fine with no damage that I could see even with a magnifier. Have also lapped 22 by just putting a small dab of compound on the nose of the bullet. Best to use low vel or subsonic plain lead. It helped but boy is it a mess. For polishing parts, triggers and any other stuff, Mothers mag Wheel polish is the cat’s butt. 

Farmer:

 

A guy gave me a case of .22 Zapper that must now be thirty plus years old.  28 (?) grain copper washed.  Must be the dirtiest .22 LR ammo I ever used but for blasting out of the 617, it will do.   Shot some out of my Biathlon rifle and its accuracy potential is not impressive to say the least.  Would say that four minutes is being kind.  Consider myself very fortunate that I have a 617 that seems to gobble up any .22 LR I put through it.

 

I have some of the subsonic ammo and the bullet seems to be seated farther out of the case than the conventional .22 and I would use it with that roll on lapping compound in a second if it was necessary.  Cleaning?  Blast it out with some carb cleaner, dry off, use some CLP and its done.  Question is, will it work?

 

GG

[Farmer]

7 hours ago, gargoil66 said:

Farmer:

 

A guy gave me a case of .22 Zapper that must now be thirty plus years old.  28 (?) grain copper washed.  Must be the dirtiest .22 LR ammo I ever used but for blasting out of the 617, it will do.   Shot some out of my Biathlon rifle and its accuracy potential is not impressive to say the least.  Would say that four minutes is being kind.  Consider myself very fortunate that I have a 617 that seems to gobble up any .22 LR I put through it.

 

I have some of the subsonic ammo and the bullet seems to be seated farther out of the case than the conventional .22 and I would use it with that roll on lapping compound in a second if it was necessary.  Cleaning?  Blast it out with some carb cleaner, dry off, use some CLP and its done.  Question is, will it work?

 

GG

The one I did worked. It was a single six that was a bit snug at the threads and would lead. I used those, I think Aguilla (sp?) made them 60 grain 22’s. Very long lead in like a 22 short case. Wouldn’t shoot for crap in a regular twist but were good enough for this. It did smooth it out enough to stop the leading problem. The other revolver I did was a DA 357 with a large gap, so there was a fair amount that blew everywhere. I just took the whole thing apart and washed it out because it was down in the crane and everywhere. 

[gargoil66]

13 minutes ago, Farmer said:

The one I did worked. It was a single six that was a bit snug at the threads and would lead. I used those, I think Aguilla (sp?) made them 60 grain 22’s. Very long lead in like a 22 short case. Wouldn’t shoot for crap in a regular twist but were good enough for this. It did smooth it out enough to stop the leading problem. The other revolver I did was a DA 357 with a large gap, so there was a fair amount that blew everywhere. I just took the whole thing apart and washed it out because it was down in the crane and everywhere. 

 

I have some of the 40 grain Aguila subsonic but it would be the 60 grain model that I am convinced would work perfectly for fire lapping a .22.  They say not to shoot it in barrels less than 20 inches.  He, he, bet that stuff was going sideways within five feet of the muzzle of your revolver.

 

GG

[Farmer]

1 hour ago, gargoil66 said:

 

I have some of the 40 grain Aguila subsonic but it would be the 60 grain model that I am convinced would work perfectly for fire lapping a .22.  They say not to shoot it in barrels less than 20 inches.  He, he, bet that stuff was going sideways within five feet of the muzzle of your revolver.

 

GG

My bro gave me some of these to try but I don’t remember who makes them. They look like a good candidate for lapping. He has a 1:8 22 bbl on his 10/22 to test these out on. 

[gargoil66]

34 minutes ago, Farmer said:

My bro gave me some of these to try but I don’t remember who makes them. They look like a good candidate for lapping. He has a 1:8 22 bbl on his 10/22 to test these out on. 

That is most likely the 40 grain Aguila subsonic.  I need to compare the ones I have with standard .22 LR to figure out the difference.  Eyeballing them yesterday, the cases looked like they were standard .22 LR length.  A lot of bullet protrudes from them. 

[Farmer]

5 hours ago, gargoil66 said:

That is most likely the 40 grain Aguila subsonic.  I need to compare the ones I have with standard .22 LR to figure out the difference.  Eyeballing them yesterday, the cases looked like they were standard .22 LR length.  A lot of bullet protrudes from them. 

I should have took the picture like this at first, std Western 40g on right. Don’t know if I still have any more of those 60’s or not. I’ll ask my bro what these are. 

He said they are 50g and are Cascade Cartridge International made in Mexico. He bought them from Graf’s a few years ago. 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Farmer
Pic & added info

[gargoil66]

10 hours ago, Farmer said:

I should have took the picture like this at first, std Western 40g on right. Don’t know if I still have any more of those 60’s or not. I’ll ask my bro what these are. 

He said they are 50g and are Cascade Cartridge International made in Mexico. He bought them from Graf’s a few years ago. 

Yes, big difference when you see the whole cartridge.  

 

Can't say I have heard of Cascade Cartridge Int. 

 

GG