9mm Bullet preference? 320Max

[nitrohuck]

It's been the better part of a decade since I've loaded 9mm, however I'm about to make the switch from Limited to CO, and the time is upon me... 

 

I've read a lottt of discouraging posts about the accuracy of the P320 Max unless you begin to push bullets fast enough (most of the frustration seemed to be with 147gr bullets). But with that extra speed, it looks like guys are pushing 140pf. I'm hoping to keep things in the 132pf range. 

 

This has lead me to look at 124gr Black Bullets (used their 180gr religiously in my .40 Lim gun with no issues, but that's apples to oranges). I am simply looking for "good enough" accuracy, 3" at 25m is better than I'll ever shoot while at a match. 

 

I'll be pushing the bullets with Promo powder and Ginex primers... bc that's what I've got... 

 

Anyone have horrid accuracy issues running the 124gr Black Bullets @ .356"? Or do you have other (economical) recomendations? 

 

 

[Boomstick303]

58 minutes ago, nitrohuck said:

Anyone have horrid accuracy issues running the 124gr Black Bullets @ .356"

 

I have not tried the Black Bullets 124 gr bullets but have good enough accuracy with Blue and Gallant 124/5 gr and 135 gr coated bullets around 135 PF.  This goes for plated and FMJ bullets as well at 124/5 gr  and 135 gr weights.  I have noted a slight POI shift when switching back and forth from FMJ to coated bullets of the same bullet weight using similar or close PF, and a rather large POI shift when I shot ammo with significantly different velocities.  

 

I have done a lot of testing on accuracy as many on this board have and for me, I found that velocity is the most important factor to tight groups with coated bullets in general out of my P320s.  FMJ did not seem as finicky and I was able to get away with a lower PF of around 130-132 with acceptable groupings for the game, but not as tight as I would have liked.  

 

I would work up loads from 132 - 135 PF and see if  you get the accuracy you are looking for. 

 

On a side note, I recently dropped a Barstow barrel in, in the limited testing I have done, the POI did not shift between bullets with significantly different velocities 147 gr versus 125 gr coated bullets, that I saw before with the Sig P320 barrels.  The 147 gr at subsonic velocities are grouping much better now as well.  I feel confident that with the Barstow barrel the POI is not going to shift as much as it did with the Sig Barrels using various ammo.  I do not like to use coated bullets at Level 2 and up matches for various reasons, and its nice to know I do not have to worry about POI shifts due to different bullet/velocities anymore.  At least it seems this way.  More testing is required for verify this is a certainty     

Edited August 9, 2022 by Boomstick303

[nitrohuck]

Thanks for the info! 

 

I have a feeling I'll be putting a Barstow barrel in the 320 Max at some point. 

 

Until then maybe I'll give the 124 Black Bullets a try and push them up to the 135pf range if accuracy isn't happening at lower pf

[Boomstick303]

I do not think a Barstow is necessarily required by any means.  But I fall in the boat of making my guns as accurate as possible, so I am the Only factor in any inaccuracy that may occur in my performance.  Its hard to diagnose what to fix if you have accuracy issues due to equipment.  Many do not upgrade the barrel and get good enough accuracy to compete at the higher levels for certain.  

 

There has been a lot of case head separations, and other detonation issues with the Sig P320 platform as well.  Some believe its due to the design of the Sig barrel.  The Barstow barrel seems to alleviate this issue as well.  

[himurax13]

Hopefully you can seat those Ginex primers deep. They seem to have light primer strike issues with them.

[echotango]

I use Blue 125's w/4.0gr W231 in 3 Max's and 3 Legions.  132pf with good enough accuracy for what we do.  Got the same accuracy with MG 124jhp. 

 

I tried Blacks and it was like a shot gun pattern.  

Edited September 2, 2022 by echotango

[HOGRIDER]

On 8/9/2022 at 11:40 AM, nitrohuck said:

It's been the better part of a decade since I've loaded 9mm, however I'm about to make the switch from Limited to CO, and the time is upon me... 

 

I've read a lottt of discouraging posts about the accuracy of the P320 Max unless you begin to push bullets fast enough (most of the frustration seemed to be with 147gr bullets). But with that extra speed, it looks like guys are pushing 140pf. I'm hoping to keep things in the 132pf range. 

 

This has lead me to look at 124gr Black Bullets (used their 180gr religiously in my .40 Lim gun with no issues, but that's apples to oranges). I am simply looking for "good enough" accuracy, 3" at 25m is better than I'll ever shoot while at a match. 

 

I'll be pushing the bullets with Promo powder and Ginex primers... bc that's what I've got... 

 

Anyone have horrid accuracy issues running the 124gr Black Bullets @ .356"? Or do you have other (economical) recomendations? 

 

 

IMO, I don't think the MAX is capable of 3" at 25m!  Many threads on the accuracy of the X5 Legion/MAX and the stock barrels simply want faster velocities to achieve reasonable accuracy; especially with the 124/125g bullets.  And this is usually referenced to using a JHP bullet.  An example of my best results with the stock barrel:

 

 

And where I'm at right now with a match grade KKM barrel:

 

 

HTHs!

 

 

[vegaspete61]

this is a snip of my 9 minor spreadsheet. I was getting into CO at the time.

               

                               Titegroup

	147 grain BBI coated 1.10 OAL
	3.0grains	3.0grains	3.0 grains	3.0 grains
	909	905	907	893
	921	904	912	912
	900	907	895	898
	912	898	932	915
	910	875	904	909
avg	910.4	897.8	910	905.4
PF	133.8	131.9	133.8	133
Gun	P320 RX	P320 RX	P320 X5	P320 X5

[vegaspete61]

My 125 grain data. 

 

                            Titegroup

	125 gr BBI coated 1.130
	3.6 grains
	1025	990	1032	1019
	1071	1017	1031	1018
	1054	1007	1027	1042
	1051	1024	1028	1003
	1051	997	1028	1009
	1040	993	1053	1027
	1060	995	1011	1006
	1063	1016	1044	992
	1052	1024	1027	1005
	1064	1013	1026	1013
avg	1053.1	1007.6	1030.7	1013.4
PF	131.6	125.9	128.8	126.6
Gun	G34	P320	Stock 2	CZ 85

[vegaspete61]

If your interested...mt 135 grain data

 

	135 grain BBI coated 1.150
	3.4 grains Titegroup
	959	925	960	924
	954	946	960	930
	979	936	964	930
	936	931	974	923
	966	938	971	941
	968	946	969	940
	956	955	967	927
	968	943	960	926
	960	946	950	935
	966	947	956	926
avg	961.2	941.3	963.1	933.8
PF	129.7	127	130	126
Gun	G34	P320	Stock 2	CZ 85

[nitrohuck]

This is all great info, thanks a ton everyone. 

 

Perhaps going with BBI 124gr wasn't the best idea... I have not a lot of choice at this point but to work on some loads w/ these bullets, ginex primers and Promo for powder. 

 

Once I get around to testing I will be sure to post some results here

 

 

[nitrohuck]

Results are in for 125gr Black Bullets: 

 

125gr coated Black Bullets (conical, not RN) 

3.6gr Promo

1.16" OAL 

Ginex Primers 

 

Chrono'd at roughly 128PF.  Average velocity was around 1030 FPS

 

Range had max distance of 14 Yards, groups were tight enough given that I was shooting off a bag and wasn't trying to get ransom rest-type results. From what I've read though, 25yrds is where the 320Max/Legions sort of fall off w/ accuracy. 

 

Dillon's powder measure seems to have a hard time throwing consistent charges, so I was seeing 3.5grs up to 3.8grs. This showed on the chrono, now and again I'd have a round register around 980FPS, which brought average PF down to about 128PF accross any given string. 

 

Since I don't have easy access to test rounds, I went home, bumped the powder measure up a bit, and am loading in the 3.7-3.9gr range now, should be just north of 130PF and do me fine, especially for local matches 

Edited September 6, 2022 by nitrohuck

[Boomstick303]

Moving forward on powder you might want to check out Alliant Sport Pistol, and/or VV N320.  They meter great and they both burn super clean, and seem to burn low enough as to not burn up the coating on coated bullets.  

 

If you want data on these loads let me know.

[nitrohuck]

Just now, Boomstick303 said:

Moving forward on powder you might want to check out Alliant Sport Pistol, and/or VV N320.  They meter great and they both burn super clean, and seem to burn low enough as to not burn up the coating on coated bullets.  

 

If you want data on these loads let me know.

lol sadly I’ve got about 7.75lb left of Promo to burn… that said now that you turned me on to Scheels I might have to see what they’ve got in stock for powders 

[Boomstick303]

I have bought plenty of N320 at Scheels but its not cheap, around $45/pound.   Have yet to see Sport Pistol there, I have been buying Sport Pistol at Powder Valley and  Grafs and Sons.  I saw Sport Pistol at Powder Valley recently, but they are currently out of stock.  Sport Pistol is a better value in my eyes.  

 

Your accuracy should be fine with the Promo in regards to USPSA, just look at stocking up on other stuff while you use it up.

[HOGRIDER]

1 hour ago, Boomstick303 said:

Moving forward on powder you might want to check out Alliant Sport Pistol, and/or VV N320.  They meter great and they both burn super clean, and seem to burn low enough as to not burn up the coating on coated bullets.  

 

If you want data on these loads let me know.

 

1 hour ago, Boomstick303 said:

I have bought plenty of N320 at Scheels but its not cheap, around $45/pound.   Have yet to see Sport Pistol there, I have been buying Sport Pistol at Powder Valley and  Grafs and Sons.  I saw Sport Pistol at Powder Valley recently, but they are currently out of stock.  Sport Pistol is a better value in my eyes.  

 

Your accuracy should be fine with the Promo in regards to USPSA, just look at stocking up on other stuff while you use it up.

Excellent advise and I totally agree!

 

I would also mention looking for VV N330 also; especially if your going to stay with the 124/125g bullets.

 

[Sandbagger123]

1 hour ago, Boomstick303 said:

Moving forward on powder you might want to check out Alliant Sport Pistol, and/or VV N320.  They meter great and they both burn super clean, and seem to burn low enough as to not burn up the coating on coated bullets.  

 

If you want data on these loads let me know.

finding Sport pistol is like finding unicorn tears .  i think n320 is available because its a pretty expensive powder 

[vegaspete61]

I have loaded most of the plated, jacketed and coated bullets out there.  For price, availability and shipping speed I use BBI bullets. Not preaching, not a promo. Just good bullets with good service. 

[Orlandoech]

I’ve been using the following load with my Max’s

 

135gr Summit City .356 Coated

3.5gr Sport Pistol

1.130”

 

roughly 129-130pf where I’m at in Utah.