Dry Firing with Red Dot

[KenP11A]

Hello all, I have a slightly embarrassing question that I cannot figure out. I have been doing local PPC (Police Pistol Combat) competitions with iron sights, so I can use the same pistol for all divisions. Next year, I plan on using a red dot in the open class. I have a consistent daily fire routine and have dry fired over 25,000 times this year according to my Mantis app. Here is my concern: Currently, when I dry fire, I am concentrating on my sight alignment (since I'm practicing/shooting iron sights). Therefore, I can easily tell if a trigger press was bad and/or if the sight alignment was disturbed during the pull.

 

Now I know that when I shoot with a red dot sight, my focus needs to be solely on the target. I have a pistol with a RDS, but wonder how I'm supposed to tell if that trigger pull was 'bad' if I'm only concentrating on the target? When I dry fire with it, the dot doesn't seem to move, but I know I didn't all of a sudden start executing flawless trigger pulls. Perhaps if my dot was smaller it would help, but even then I would have to slightly divert my attention from the target to track if the dot moves? (I should note that when I dry fire with my red dot pistol, the dot is 6.5 MOA and I also cover the front of the sight to help me better focus on the target*)

 

Apologies if this is a silly question. The PPC game is about extreme accuracy at long distances, so my trigger press is of utmost concern imo. I'm still just expert class so I've got a lot to learn. I'm unsure of another forum with so many phenomenal shooters so I'm just hoping someone out there can shed some light. 

 

*I listened to a Ben Stoeger interview where he says he covers his red dot and just leaves it covered at all times. I noticed when I have my dot covered my zero changes compared to uncovered/both eyes? I suppose he just has his pistol zeroed to be shot in such a fashion?

[GigG]

2 minutes ago, KenP11A said:

I have a pistol with a RDS, but wonder how I'm supposed to tell if that trigger pull was 'bad' if I'm only concentrating on the target?

 

The dot will move on the target.  What I don't know is how you are possibly...

Quote

When I dry fire with it, the dot doesn't seem to move

 

 

I thinking it may have something to do with you vision.  If I have my dot covered, uncovered or even if I look through the sight and focus on the dot with one or two eyes open my zero doesn't change.

[Twilk73]

On 8/1/2022 at 4:59 PM, KenP11A said:

Hello all, I have a slightly embarrassing question that I cannot figure out. I have been doing local PPC (Police Pistol Combat) competitions with iron sights, so I can use the same pistol for all divisions. Next year, I plan on using a red dot in the open class. I have a consistent daily fire routine and have dry fired over 25,000 times this year according to my Mantis app. Here is my concern: Currently, when I dry fire, I am concentrating on my sight alignment (since I'm practicing/shooting iron sights). Therefore, I can easily tell if a trigger press was bad and/or if the sight alignment was disturbed during the pull.

 

Now I know that when I shoot with a red dot sight, my focus needs to be solely on the target. I have a pistol with a RDS, but wonder how I'm supposed to tell if that trigger pull was 'bad' if I'm only concentrating on the target? When I dry fire with it, the dot doesn't seem to move, but I know I didn't all of a sudden start executing flawless trigger pulls. Perhaps if my dot was smaller it would help, but even then I would have to slightly divert my attention from the target to track if the dot moves? (I should note that when I dry fire with my red dot pistol, the dot is 6.5 MOA and I also cover the front of the sight to help me better focus on the target*)

 

Apologies if this is a silly question. The PPC game is about extreme accuracy at long distances, so my trigger press is of utmost concern imo. I'm still just expert class so I've got a lot to learn. I'm unsure of another forum with so many phenomenal shooters so I'm just hoping someone out there can shed some light. 

 

*I listened to a Ben Stoeger interview where he says he covers his red dot and just leaves it covered at all times. I noticed when I have my dot covered my zero changes compared to uncovered/both eyes? I suppose he just has his pistol zeroed to be shot in such a fashion?

I shoot RDS target focused. However, when I am focusing on my trigger press I watch the dot. I’m a pretty new shooter so take this as an opinion rather than a lesson. 

[konkapot]

I'd recommend mixing your sessions up quite a bit; the accuracy requirements for PPC are significantly greater than USPSA, so focusing on your trigger press in dryfire is definitely worthwhile. 

 

In other words, sometimes/occasionally focus on the dot, during dryfire, when you're really paying attention to your trigger press. My concern is bad habits can creep up on you, slowly, so that "all of a sudden" your trigger control is poor. 

 

I found that Mantis thingy to be "ok" overall but it seems like it would be particularly helpful in monitoring trigger manipulation. 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

On 8/1/2022 at 4:59 PM, KenP11A said:

 I noticed when I have my dot covered my zero changes compared to uncovered/both eyes?

 

There has to be something you're doing to cause this.  My zero doesn't change at all regardless of whether the front of the lens on my optic is taped over or not.

 

If you're using your eyes correctly an occluded optic is irrelevant.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[VigilAndy]

If it’s doing what it’s supposed to - your Mantis should be doing a good job monitoring your trigger pull. I use one and believe what it’s telling me, but it could be misleading me. And at 25,000 dry fire rounds this year, you’ve put a lot of work already. So you aren’t exactly a beginner in terms of dry fire trigger pulls.

[shred]

If you have prescription glasses your zero can change relative to no prescription and also which lens you're looking through-- dominant eye closing-the offside-eye traditional zero vs occluded dominant and looking through only the non-dominant lens.

 

Best solution is to pick one and stick with it, but IME the impact changes aren't that big.

 

[WDG710]

I too had an issue - (right handed, left eye dominant). I now close my weak eye & focus with my dominant eye only. It works for me.

[iainmcphersn]

Try one of the laser training cartridges. The laser will *blip* where you "hit" which should be on target.

[mSNACKS]

Once you have more reps and competent on dot, you will learn to call shots even while being target focused.  Your focused on target but still see dot superimposed in peripheral and can see how dot behaves and call shots with the information  

[3gunN00b]

I as a new shooter am struggling with acquiring the red dot consistently and know I need to work/practice on making my draw stroke the same every time to help with Consistency

[Twilk73]

On 8/22/2023 at 10:36 AM, 3gunN00b said:

I as a new shooter am struggling with acquiring the red dot consistently and know I need to work/practice on making my draw stroke the same every time to help with Consistency

It’s like pointing at a wall you always get it right because you’ve been doing it your whole life. Practice is key. Practice your draw a few times every day for a few weeks. When you don’t acquire the dot its more than likely a grip issue. 

[808matt]

With practice you should be able to discern whether the dot is moving/disturbed during trigger press, even with a target focus.  I would trust the feedback that the Mantis app is giving you. 

[JDalton203]

On 8/22/2023 at 8:36 AM, 3gunN00b said:

I as a new shooter am struggling with acquiring the red dot consistently and know I need to work/practice on making my draw stroke the same every time to help with Consistency

Had this issue as well, started and ended all of my dry fire sessions with 50 reps of just looking at the target and drawing. It eventually has settled in muscle memory.

[Runswithwood1]

Honestly the reps is gonna be what helps most, pick a spot randomly around your home, and snap to it. Then again. Repeat about 50 times a day

[Murzikrv]

Great advice and info here !

[csailer]

Lots of great info and advice here.  Recently found dry fire king and they have some great resources for dry fire if you don't have a huge dry fire dojo and for me makes it a little more fun and mixes it up.  Cheers

[FuzzyGreenHat]

A lot of what I see is dry fire will be great, and then you get out to actually shoot and are anticipating the trigger, slightly jerking the gun. 
 

great drill we do, requires a buddy but can be done with 2-3 mags in a dump pouch. 
have 1 mag with 1 round and 1 empty. Load gun without knowing which mag is in. Engage target/pull trigger. What you’ll find is a lot of the time you’ll pull the trigger on the gun and yank it on empty, showing you were anticipating the trigger. It’ll help you ease those nerves. 

[mfaith]

Doesn't the mantis app tell you how much you move the gun when you fire?