Initial Sight In/Chrono of new P320 MAX

[HOGRIDER]

Since the X5 Legion Accuracy thread had been running for several years, thought it would be beneficial to start a new thread on the P320 MAX initial testing.  This thread inspired me to get started with some solid, initial info.  Thanks @Boomstick303

 

 Since this is the first "red dot" competition pistol I've handled in a LONG time, thought it would be wise to go ahead and see if the RDS would put me on paper at 15yds off a plastic rest on the bench.  This showed some promise using some Nosler 124g Match ammo I'd had for a while running published 1150fps/142+PF.  IMO, this was a pretty stout load but the MAX with a 14# RS, functioned perfectly with nice, 4 O'clock ejection!

 

After getting a pretty good handle on the sight adjustment, I moved the target out to 20 yds off the same flimsy rest and tested with some test rounds I had made up for the S2 Orange.  These consisted of Zero 125g JHPs and 125 JHP-Conicals with 4.1g N320 at 1.080" OAL.  Averaging PF for both these rounds were 132-133fps,: and I soon found out, as many threads here had noted, the Max did not like this range of velocity!  I didn't feel worthy to measure the groups; but 4-5" would have been very close.  Blue 125TCs at similar PFs also yielded very poor groups.

 

I then remembered I had a few Federal 124g Syntechs with me and thought, why not test these?  They had a "published" velocity of 1050fps (130PF) which to my surprise yielded an Average Velocity of 1119fps for an average 138PF.  ES was 32, SD was 10.  So, IMO, this was right around the supposed "sweet spot" for the stock Max/X5 Legion barrels.

 

After putting two rounds in the lower right of the target, I adjusted the sights once again, and put the remaining 8 rounds in a pretty descent group.

 

I honestly feel there may be some reasonable accuracy with the stock barrel, I'm ordering some inserts from Ransom Rest to see just how well the MAX can group under controlled conditions.  My next test reloads will be using both of the Zero 125g I have; but upping the N320 a few grains to find that "supposed" sweet spot of 135-137PF.  Hope to keep the OALs at 1.080" in order to use the same loads in the Shadow 2 Orange.

 

At other's recommendations, I have also ordered some Precision Delta 124g V1 JHPs!

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by HOGRIDER
sp

[B585]

Thanks for detailed analysis.  Though I have been shooting the Legion for over a year, I have never analyzed the accuracy in great detail.  
I loaded 125 gn Blues at a 132 PF and shot it at 10 and 25 yards free hand and found it accurate enough.   I really should try some different loads.

[HOGRIDER]

16 minutes ago, B585 said:

Thanks for detailed analysis.  Though I have been shooting the Legion for over a year, I have never analyzed the accuracy in great detail.  
I loaded 125 gn Blues at a 132 PF and shot it at 10 and 25 yards free hand and found it accurate enough.   I really should try some different loads.

Yea, my Zeros and Blues at 132-133 PF showed very poor accuracy from the Max!  I honestly feel from the many threads I have read here and on other forums, that most competitors that reload go for the faster, 135-137PF range for all bullet types.  Saw one post where a shooter was getting excellent accuracy from the Federal American Eagle 147g FMJs, and they chrono at 147PF!  

 

Bottom line, at this point, appears that faster is better accuracy!    I'll know in a few days...........

 

[Rich406]

Coated bullets seem to do much worse than jacketed regardless of velocity.

 

The max has the same problems as the legion. They use the same slide and barrel, just cut differently. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Rich406

[Boomstick303]

10 hours ago, HOGRIDER said:

Bottom line, at this point, appears that faster is better accuracy!

 

All of my load testing has proven this to be true.

 

10 hours ago, Rich406 said:

The max has the same problems as the legion.

 

Pretty much.

[HOGRIDER]

10 hours ago, Rich406 said:

Coated bullets seem to do much worse than jacketed regardless of velocity.

 

The max has the same problems as the legion. They use the same slide and barrel, just cut differently. 

 

39 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

All of my load testing has proven this to be true.

 

 

Pretty much.

@Rich406 @Boomstick303

 

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[Nuncles]

11 hours ago, Rich406 said:

Coated bullets seem to do much worse than jacketed regardless of velocity.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this true for ALL pistols and would not be an issue limited to just the Legion? 

 

I just wanted to clarify if this is a statement in regards to the legion or just coated bullets in general.

 

I always seem to get better and more consistent groups with jacketed bullets across the board.  I'm guessing it's because the jacket is more consistently uniform than most coated bullets.

[Rich406]

Just now, Nuncles said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this true for ALL pistols and would not be an issue limited to just the Legion? 

 

I just wanted to clarify if this is a statement in regards to the legion or just coated bullets in general.

 

I always seem to get better and more consistent groups with jacketed bullets across the board.  I'm guessing it's because the jacket is more consistently uniform than most coated bullets.

Yes, that’s true. But with the legion coated are usually a lot worse. 

[Nuncles]

3 minutes ago, Rich406 said:

Yes, that’s true. But with the legion coated are usually a lot worse. 

Ok. Thanks.

[Boomstick303]

27 minutes ago, Rich406 said:

But with the legion coated are usually a lot worse.

 

At what velocity?  How fast did you get them in you testing?  I found they grouped fine once you got them fast enough.  Probably no worse than any other plastic gun.  I am sure there is a point where they are too fast and start melting the coating to a greater degree which would also degrade accuracy.  I do not think I have reached that point in my testing.  

 

Curious for my own data points.

 

 I intend on starting some more testing with 124/5 gr once falls rolls around and the season is over.  Using up my 135 gr for this season.  I feel 124/5 gr is the better option due to the fact the X5s like faster bullets.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Boomstick303

[Rich406]

1 hour ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

At what velocity?  How fast did you get them in you testing?  I found they grouped fine once you got them fast enough.  Probably no worse than any other plastic gun.  I am sure there is a point where they are too fast and start melting the coating to a greater degree which would also degrade accuracy.  I do not think I have reached that point in my testing.  

 

Curious for my own data points.

 

Blue bullets 147gr .356 up to 135pf - no good

Blue bullets 135gr .356 up to 135pf - no good

blue bullets 124gr .356 up to 135 pf - no good

black bullets 147gr up to,135 pf - no good

rmr 147gr HMW fmj @ 130 pf - good

mt gold 147 cmj @ 130pf - good

mt gold 124 jhp @ 130 pf - good

 

thats the limit of my testing. I don’t see a point of exceeding 135pf for a USPSA load, as It’s not optimal.

[Boomstick303]

14 minutes ago, Rich406 said:

Blue bullets 147gr .356 up to 135pf - no good

Blue bullets 135gr .356 up to 135pf - no good

blue bullets 124gr .356 up to 135 pf - no good

black bullets 147gr up to,135 pf - no good

rmr 147gr HMW fmj @ 130 pf - good

mt gold 147 cmj @ 130pf - good

mt gold 124 jhp @ 130 pf - good

 

That should help people save some time.  Thanks for sharing.

[HOGRIDER]

4 hours ago, Rich406 said:

Blue bullets 147gr .356 up to 135pf - no good

Blue bullets 135gr .356 up to 135pf - no good

blue bullets 124gr .356 up to 135 pf - no good

black bullets 147gr up to,135 pf - no good

rmr 147gr HMW fmj @ 130 pf - good

mt gold 147 cmj @ 130pf - good

mt gold 124 jhp @ 130 pf - good

 

thats the limit of my testing. I don’t see a point of exceeding 135pf for a USPSA load, as It’s not optimal.

Definitely a valid point...............however, Federal Syntech 124g has a (box) published velocity of 1110 (137.6PF).  And out of my Max the Chrono was averaging 1119fps.  Not sure if the 124g has been designated "Official Ammunition of USPSA" or not.

 

Accuracy was pretty good also!

 

sig-p320-max-wfederal-syntech-124g.pdf

[NCJammer]

Too bad to still be hearing about the accuracy on the Legions. I just bought an AXG Pro after selling some Glocks off and it drives tacks. It shoots 2” groups all day at 25 yards. I wasn’t sure what it would be like on the 320 platform but it is amazing with 147s.

[Jeremyc_1999]

1 hour ago, NCJammer said:

Too bad to still be hearing about the accuracy on the Legions. I just bought an AXG Pro after selling some Glocks off and it drives tacks. It shoots 2” groups all day at 25 yards. I wasn’t sure what it would be like on the 320 platform but it is amazing with 147s.

Is that with coated 147s?

[HOGRIDER]

Based on my research, and while waiting on the Ransom Rest P320X grip inserts, I've taken 3 different JHPs and loaded to what I estimate it will take to get around that desired 1100fps mark.  Already have solid Chrono data using 4.1g of N320............

 

So far, I've loaded (for testing) Zero 125g JHP, Zero 125g JHP-Conical, and PD 124g JHP Ver1 with 4.2g and 4.4g of N320.  All COALs are @ 1.080".

 

Anyone shooting a Max or X5 Legion that's successfully tested anything similar?

 

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by HOGRIDER

[ddc]

6 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said:

Based on my research, and while waiting on the Ransom Rest P320X grip inserts, I've taken 3 different FMJs and loaded to what I estimate it will take to get around that desired 1100fps mark.  Already have solid Chrono data using 4.1g of N320............

 

So far, I've loaded (for testing) Zero 125g FMJ, Zero 125g FMJ-Conical, and PD 124g FMJ Ver1 with 4.2g and 4.4g of N320.  All COALs are @ 1.080".

 

Anyone shooting a Max or X5 Legion that's successfully tested anything similar?

 

 

 

Not a direct answer but I typically load FMJ's longer like around 1.125/1.130. HP's more toward your 1.080 number.

I have not done any extensive testing; just sort of arrived there somehow. Very scientific eh?

Just curious about what appears to my eye to be loads on the short side and looking to learn. Thanks. 

[HOGRIDER]

18 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

Not a direct answer but I typically load FMJ's longer like around 1.125/1.130. HP's more toward your 1.080 number.

I have not done any extensive testing; just sort of arrived there somehow. Very scientific eh?

Just curious about what appears to my eye to be loads on the short side and looking to learn. Thanks. 

@ddcCorrected my mistake...........all these loads I'm testing are JHPs

 

Thanks for your feedback!

 

BTW:  Here's the 3 Zero JHPs I had used/tested in the S2O.  The PD 124 JHP V1 is very similar...........

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by HOGRIDER
sp

[Boomstick303]

18 minutes ago, ddc said:

Just curious about what appears to my eye to be loads on the short side and looking to learn

 

I played around with OAL loading from 1.100 to 1.150 and it made zero difference in accuracy in regards to the X5 Legion platform.  I did not go as low as 1.080 so I guess that could result something different.

 

You can find a rather lengthy write up in regards to testing varied OAL here.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Boomstick303

[HOGRIDER]

19 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

I played around with OAL loading from 1.100 to 1.150 and it made zero difference in accuracy in regards to the X5 Legion platform.  I did not go as low as 1.080 so I guess that could result something different.

 

You can find a rather lengthy write up in regards to testing varied OAL here.

 

 

@Boomstick303Thanks for sharing that excellent thread!  I have it bookmarked!  And I definitely feel I'm headed in the right direction by concentrating on the 124/125g bullets at faster velocities!

 

I also agree with @Lee64 post where he referenced "Wobbley's" excellent write up on "How to Determine Max OAL".  Has worked for me in several different pistols!

 

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=103620.0

 

I'll also note one thing that had concerned me when loading these larger powder weights, at those shorter OALs, was there a possibility of dealing with compressed loads?  Based on my calculations, I'm good so far..........

 

Again, I appreciate you sharing your experiences with the X5 Legion platform that I had missed in my various searches!

 

[ddc]

2 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

I played around with OAL loading from 1.100 to 1.150 and it made zero difference in accuracy in regards to the X5 Legion platform.  I did not go as low as 1.080 so I guess that could result something different.

 

You can find a rather lengthy write up in regards to testing varied OAL here.

 

 

 

Very interesting. I guess I missed that thread. Thanks!

 

[HOGRIDER]

Have not had the opportunity to chrono these loads yet, but hoping some of you X5 Legion/Max drivers can tell me if this is about as good as it gets for accuracy.......

 

Anyone using N320 with 124/125g bullets?  

 

Thanks!

Edited April 3, 2022 by HOGRIDER
sp

[HOGRIDER]

Another..........

[Rich406]

32 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said:

Another..........

Someone will be along shortly to tell you that is good enough for the game we play…..

Edited April 4, 2022 by Rich406

[echotango]

40 minutes ago, Rich406 said:

Someone will be along shortly to tell you that is good enough for the game we play…..

Yup. Good enough. That is about all I get from all my Max's and Legions.