Dillon XL750 Sizing Problem, Need A Pro Here

[RGA]

Hi,

 

Thanks for posting the vids.

 

What you are seeing is quite typical when the case is not 100% inserted in the shell plate. 99% is not enough. Radiused sizer dies can somewhat negate the problem but when I use old RCBS dies (.45 acp) with a sharp radius I really have to make sure the cases are inserted completely in the shell plate otherwise they will not enter the die.

 

I can reproduce the issue on a XL650 with 38/357 conversionkit en Dillon dies. And it also happens with other calibers.

 

Make sure that the case insert slide can travel all the way forward when sliding a case into the shell plate slot so we can rule out this variable if the issue persists.

 

Kind rgds,

RGA

[damon32382]

4 hours ago, RGA said:

Hi,

 

Thanks for posting the vids.

 

What you are seeing is quite typical when the case is not 100% inserted in the shell plate. 99% is not enough. Radiused sizer dies can somewhat negate the problem but when I use old RCBS dies (.45 acp) with a sharp radius I really have to make sure the cases are inserted completely in the shell plate otherwise they will not enter the die.

 

I can reproduce the issue on a XL650 with 38/357 conversionkit en Dillon dies. And it also happens with other calibers.

 

Make sure that the case insert slide can travel all the way forward when sliding a case into the shell plate slot so we can rule out this variable if the issue persists.

 

Kind rgds,

RGA

I appreciate the reply, but the problem is still remains even with the case is fully seated to the shell plate. I’ve checked that every single time to make sure. I’ll be posting a video today as well and will show you. 

[damon32382]

11 hours ago, ddc said:

 

They quote months but I sent an 1100 in a while back, probably April/ish and got it back a couple weeks later.

I’m glad to hear that! Thank you

[ysrracer]

5 hours ago, RGA said:

What you are seeing is quite typical when the case is not 100% inserted in the shell plate. 99% is not enough. 

 

Not in my case. I load 9mm on the exact same machine, and don't have the problem.

 

Sometimes I'll even check to make sure the case is fully seated in the shell plate, and it still tips forward.

[BJinPass]

I have the same issue with my 650 which HAD (but no longer does) a Mark 7 Autodrive. I was reloading 9mm Major on this for many years, and the issue was infrequent with the 9s. It seemed to come and go. It would occasionally get in a mode where it would crunch 9mm cases in station 1 on a regular basis. I'd play with adjustments and tell it how much I loved it and it would go back to working well. I could always see the case and die were not on parallel planes, though. The resize/decap die is a Dillon 38 Super die.

 

I recently switched to 38 Supercomp and the problem became unmanageable. Ruining a brand new Starline 38SC case when the case wouldn't go into the resize die was annoying beyond belief. There was no setting torque on the Mark 7 setting that would NOT crunch a mis-aligned case but still power through the entire stroke, so if the case didn't "tilt" inwards as shown in the excellent videos in this thread by itself, it got crunched and ruined. No amount of realignment was able to cure this, so I finally uninstalled the Autodrive. I had to relearn manual operation of the 650 but at least I am not wasted expensive cases now. I still need to stop the stroke and help the case in once and a while, but I can actually make ammo at a reasonable pace and not ruin any cases in the process. I want to emphasize the Autodrive wasn't the cause of the problem, but it made it unbearable because it ruined expensive cases. When a 9 got crunched, it wasn't a loss at all, but the 38SC are just too expensive to ruin before getting to shoot them at least a few times.

 

The 38SC cases are about 2.5mm longer than a 9, so the misalignment tends to get exaggerated a bit which seems to make the problem worse. On my press, when the shell plate snaps into the new position after indexing, there is an audible click which frequently causes the case in station 1 to move out away from the center just a bit. This occurs as the platform is moving up right after the indexer ring comes off the indexer cam. I have tried in vain to come up with a shell plate mod that would ever so slightly clamp the empty case in as far as it could go on the cutout, but nothing I have rigged up has worked.

 

As of now, I can make 38SC ammo as fast or faster by hand as the Mark 7 Autodrive could, even when accounting for the now infrequent case that doesn't find it's way into the dies properly. But it's still annoying to have to stop and nudge the case in when it occurs. I have ordered a new Jofer toolhead to see if there might be an issue with the current toolhead being misdrilled. I may try a new shell plate as well. I am currently using the recommended .223 shell plate with the 38SC cases. I also tried the 9 shell plate with the 38SC cases and it didn't help the problem. 

 

 

[ysrracer]

That's why new style Dillon dies are flared at the bottom. Old style ones are not.

[damon32382]

On 7/5/2021 at 2:43 PM, ysrracer said:

That's why new style Dillon dies are flared at the bottom. Old style ones are not.

Been meaning to get a video up, last weekend was insanely busy. Just wanted to keep in touch! 

[Tom S.]

Have you tried "floating" the tool head by removing the pins that hold it in place? It might move enough to center the case.

[damon32382]

49 minutes ago, Tom S. said:

Have you tried "floating" the tool head by removing the pins that hold it in place? It might move enough to center the case.

Interesting idea. And no I haven’t yet. Would that determine that I have a out of spec tool head if it worked without the pins? 
My 357 shells lean towards the left(facing the press)  as it enters station 1 to resize/deprime. So if anything, the tool head would need to go further to my right(facing the press). But I’ll give it a try. 

[4n2t0]

I know this is an older thread, but did you ever find a solution to this problem?

 

Recently, my 650 started to act up on me, and I'm experiencing a similar problem. My cases tilt outward, and you can see how it affects the brass in the pictures below. I'm forced to constantly poke the cases into the sizing die, or they'll hit the edge of the die and/or get dented. This happens with all calibres, although it is much more noticeable with taller cases like .38/.357.

 

My 650 is spotless. The sizing die is tightened down with a full shellplate and a case drawn up into it to help alignment. The camming pin has been adjusted to insert the case fully. The shellplate is clean and tight, no wobble.

 

I've contacted Dillon, and I'm waiting to hear back from them, but aside from trying their realignment tool, which I don't own, I'm totally out of ideas.

 

 

 

Edited March 15 by 4n2t0

[4n2t0]

 

[ysrracer]

Have you tried new brass? I chased a .38 Short Colt issue of crushing primers, only to finally find out it was the brass.

[dillon]

Push down on the edge of the shellplate at station 4. If it feels springy, then the shellplate bolt needs to be slightly tighter.

[4n2t0]

The shellplate is clean and tight, no wobble.

 

I might check the brass, I guess you never know. Weird.

[4n2t0]

There's nothing wrong with the brass as far as I can tell/measure. Maybe I'll double check the toolhead next.

 

Dillon contacted me to obtain more information, hopefully they can provide some advice that will cure the problems I'm having.

Edited March 16 by 4n2t0

[4n2t0]

I was reloading 9mm this weekend (147gr bullet over 3.65gr of WST, my favourite recipe) and I decided to take a few more pictures.

 

Different toolhead, different dies (all Dillon), same tilting. Having the press lock up every 4-6 cases really sucks!

 

 

 

Has anyone successfully integrated one of these on a 650? It would save me from poking the cases into the sizing die all the time.

 

Edited March 16 by 4n2t0

[Miranda]

are both alignment pins out?  I know some have said they use only one.

 

miranda

[4n2t0]

2 hours ago, Miranda said:

are both alignment pins out?  I know some have said they use only one.

 

miranda

 

Both alignment pins are currently being utilized.

 

I'll give it a shot, but since it seems that the case is already tilting towards the center of the press, I doubt allowing the toolhead to float farther away will help.

[Farmer]

Does it happen more in the spring and fall? Maybe it’s the tilt of the earth during those times. What the hell, you’ve checked everything else. 

[Miranda]

I should explain,  I saw the circled spot and thought you are not using an alignment pin.

I believe mine pokes out a bit more than the one photoed.

 

the alignment looks poor... pins in place means the shell plate is the next suspect.

usually the primers get bent when that gets miss-timed. 

k a wild guess,  the detent ball has a big dent that acts like a gear.

  I think an alignment tool is in your future...

 

miranda

[4n2t0]

Thanks for the suggestions, I really do appreciate them all.

 

I tried 1 pin, 2 pins, no pins but the problem persists. I think an alignment tool is in my future as well. 

 

I'll wait to hear back from Dillon and update this thread if/when a solution is found in the hopes that it might help someone else. I know many times I search the archives and find a solution to my issues on this forum.

[ysrracer]

Take off the shell plate. Are the two Allen bolts that hold the platform to the shaft tight?

[JTinMO]

Did you try tightening the shell plate down solid (may need to remove the ball and spring), like to where it can’t rotate, and try to size a piece?  I think that would show if the base frame and shell plate are square to your tool head.  Basically eliminate any potential of the shell plate tilting at all anywhere.  
 

from the pics your brass tilting is the issue, and not really something an alignment kit will fix necessarily.  If your brass was straight vertically and hitting off center in the die, then the alignment kit can fix that and bring everything back in line.  I don’t think it will fix a tilt issue.  It’s almost like you have something under your shell plate causing a tilt.  

[4n2t0]

11 hours ago, ysrracer said:

Take off the shell plate. Are the two Allen bolts that hold the platform to the shaft tight?

 

Just double checked the bolts and they are good and tight.

[4n2t0]

2 hours ago, JTinMO said:

Did you try tightening the shell plate down solid (may need to remove the ball and spring), like to where it can’t rotate, and try to size a piece?  I think that would show if the base frame and shell plate are square to your tool head.  Basically eliminate any potential of the shell plate tilting at all anywhere.  
 

from the pics your brass tilting is the issue, and not really something an alignment kit will fix necessarily.  If your brass was straight vertically and hitting off center in the die, then the alignment kit can fix that and bring everything back in line.  I don’t think it will fix a tilt issue.  It’s almost like you have something under your shell plate causing a tilt.  

 

This is a great idea! I would have never assumed that the platform itself might be canted. I'm "meticulously anal" and most would think that my 10+ year old 650 was still brand new, which helps reduce most user induced issues. I really know/understand this machine well. I might have to just start thinking about mechanical failure in the frame/ram/platform. I might also have to setup a camera and record myself reloading in an attempt to see exactly when or how the cases get tilted.

Edited March 17 by 4n2t0