RL1100 Die SCRAMBLE - Stepping outside of my comfort zone

[Sigarmsp226]

RL1100 Reloaders - Please step in and provide me your feedback, comments, and suggestions and if any of you have a source for or want to sell me (if you have one or an extra one) After-Market RL1100 toolhead that has Station 4 (primer station) that is threaded PLEASE message me here……

 

Short Overview - I finally received my RL1100 this past week (no dies - but that is ok because I kept all my various dies when I sold my Mark7 - that will be another story on another day) so staying in my comfort zone I set up my 1100 in a normal configuration.
 That being:

1 - Case Feed

2 - Lee “U” resizing/decapping die

3 - Factory Swage Hold Down Die

4 - Going to put my Everglades Hold Down Die as soon as I get it turned down to .561” (this week I hope)

5 - Powder Drop and Case Neck Bell

6 - Dillon Powder Cop

7 - Manual bullet placement and Redding Micro- seating die (LOVE this Die)

8 - Redding Taper Crimp Die

 

After reading all of the forum support and feedback provided to Cuz and Talking with Ben (HogRider) and going back and reading every post on this forum related to the RL1100 I have decided (since so far I have not been able to find an After-Market RL1100 toolhead that has station 4 threaded) that I am about to SCRAMBLE up my die configuration and I want (need) honest feedback as to why this might or might not work…..Here is what I am thinking and yes this is taking we WAY outside of my comfort zone but HogRider says attaching my MBF that is sitting 2 feet from my RL1100 needs to be used…

 

Here is what dies I have in hand and can set up unless someone things I am nuts…..Also want to add - the RL1100 will be used 95% of the time for my minor power 9mm load so this will be a dedicated toolhead (until I can find/buy that after market one with station 4 threaded)…

1 - Case Feed

2 - F W Arms Primer Popper Decapping Die

3 - Lee “U” Die with the decapping pin removed and the decapping sleeve adjusted down to act as my Swage Hold Down (have not tried this yet but in theory it should work - I think).

4 - Everglades Hold Down Die (Did I mention I have to use this die here since I do not have a toolhead that has station 4 threaded ).

5 - Powder Drop and Case Neck Belling - What came on the machine from Dillon so far is working GREAT…

Adding my Endoscope Camera system at this location that I have on hand….

6 - MBF (yep HogRider - going to follow your recommendation.

7 - Redding Micro-Seating Die

8 - Redding Taper Crimp Die

 

That is the thought…Now before I go and undo everything I have set up right now (and have loaded 1000 rds so far) tell me what you think and what part of this “idea” might not work of what I have not considered or thought about……

 

Reloading is an adventure and I am thinking since I have the required rounds loaded to support my 2021 shooting season (I loaded a lot of 9mm rounds on my XL650 while waiting on this RL1100 to arrive) I thought - Why not try something new - it might work out to be a great change….Thanks to all who can provide comments, feedback, and suggestions….If I fogot to mention I am also looking to purchase a RL1100 after market toolhead that has station 4 threaded…..……Mark

[ddc]

For station 3 are you talking about flipping the decapping pin upside down and adjusting it such that it hits the bottom of the case as the case is sized?

Or are you just removing the pin and using the resistance provided by the sizing die to provide resistance against the swage bar.

[HOGRIDER]

Hey Mark!

First off, thanks for the vote of confidence!    And I want to follow this thread in hopes of learning something! 

 

I'm in the camp that if your not needing HUGE amounts of reloads for high level competition and practice, follow that old KISS theory!

 

As I deprime and clean prior to reloading, my Redding Pro Titanium sizer/decapper in Station #2 works perfectly.  Now, if I was loading for 9mm Major and/or using nothing but range brass, I would definitely be using the Lee "U" die that sizes approximately .001" smaller than the Redding.

 

One thing that I ran across not too long ago, and I'll share it here with a bit of embarrassment, was I had a piece of brass going through the RL1100 that had a small, deformed primer pocket that pulled the decapping pin out of my Sizing Die!  It was literally stuck/fouled in the primer pocket.  To my thankful benefit, the press stopped cold at Station #3 when the factory swaging system hit that decapping pin.  I took all the brass out from that station forward; and after replacing the decapping pin in the sizer, proceeded without any further interruptions.  Why I feel thankful at this point is that I believe if that piece of brass was not fouled/stopped at Station #3, it may have made it to Station #4 and set off a full magazine of primers during new primer seating! 

 

My point is I feel that Station #3 with an adequate swage station "foot" and properly adjusted swage rod coming up from under the case head is one of the most important steps in the RL1100 operation.  But, it may simply be important "for me" because I'm a new RL1100 user and not really a concern for those that have used the S1050/RL1100 platform with high production experiences.  I'm sure the valued veteran loaders here will chime in......... 

 

I definitely think you'll like the endoscope monitoring powder drops vs a powder check die!

 

And your are absolutely right in stating "Reloading is an adventure"!  Very enjoyable and satisfying!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cbrussell]

Hi Mark,

Here is a link to a toolhead with a threaded station #4. I don’t know if it fits the new RL1100 but the owner is communicative.

http://www.cncshooter.com/

My RL1050 die setup for the 40 S&W is as follows:

1. Case Feed
2. EGW undersized de-capping and sizing die
3. Fast and Friendly Brass swage hold down rod with Dillon die body
4. Level-10 Innovations Primer hold down/backup die (Not threaded) 
5. Powder drop with DAA belling insert
6. Dillon low powder alarm
7. Redding micrometer Seating die
8. Redding micrometer taper crimp die

I have tried a bunch of dies over the years, but have settled on this configuration. Same for the 45ACP.

Craig

[Sigarmsp226]

7 hours ago, ddc said:

For station 3 are you talking about flipping the decapping pin upside down and adjusting it such that it hits the bottom of the case as the case is sized?

Or are you just removing the pin and using the resistance provided by the sizing die to provide resistance against the swage bar.

DDC - Your question is one of my “unknowns” at this point.  My thought was to remove the decapping pin and then screw down the unit that holds the decapping pin like a swage hold down die.  I have not examined the Lee “U” die to see if this is even a viable option. If it is not then I will need to re-think this stations set up because I am not sure that utilizing just the Lee “U” die will provide the right resistance n the right location to allow the swage rod to do its job effectively.  
 

This was my thought - I will see if I can try this today and will let you know if it works…..To your point I had not considered flipping the decapping pin to support this stations swage process.  Thanks for suggesting this as I will also give this a try.

 

Thanks for your questions and suggestions…Greatly appreciate your support…Mark

[Sigarmsp226]

5 hours ago, cbrussell said:

Hi Mark,

Here is a link to a toolhead with a threaded station #4. I don’t know if it fits the new RL1100 but the owner is communicative.

http://www.cncshooter.com/

My RL1050 die setup for the 40 S&W is as follows:

1. Case Feed
2. EGW undersized de-capping and sizing die
3. Fast and Friendly Brass swage hold down rod with Dillon die body
4. Level-10 Innovations Primer hold down/backup die (Not threaded) 
5. Powder drop with DAA belling insert
6. Dillon low powder alarm
7. Redding micrometer Seating die
8. Redding micrometer taper crimp die

I have tried a bunch of dies over the years, but have settled on this configuration. Same for the 45ACP.

Craig

Craig - Thanks for the link for a possible threaded toolhead…I emailed the company through their website and will let you know what I learn……

 

One of the reasons I was wanting to go to the F W Arms decapping die is because I have it on hand and even after filing the decapping pin on my Lee “U” die resizing/decapping die I am still experiencing 1-2 rounds per hundred that are getting sucked back up into the case and as a result when that case gets to the swage station it ruins the case and causes the press to want to freeze up on the down stroke….
 

I do not have this issue on my 650 press where I use the Dillon decapping/resizing die so installing one of these may be my solution since the Dillon decapping portion of this die is spring loaded….

 

Also I love the quality look of the Level-10 primer hold down die….That die is now on my “Got to get one” list….The Everglades hold down die will work perfectly once I get it turned down but I like the fact that the Level 10 die is spring loaded. This will come in handy because I shoot range pick up brass so my brass thickness will vary a lot….Thanks again Sir for posting your information and details….Greatly appreciate your feedback…Mark

[Sigarmsp226]

Hogrider - Thanks for your post and do not feel bad about the depriming pin situation. The stories we all could tell about the “Lessons we have Learned” in our reloading rooms….

 

To your point of the swage “foot” - I agree 100% that this is required in order for the swage rod to do its job correctly….I also believe that (learned this from your July 2020 post below that a primer “foot” is also highly recommended (as me how I already know this being only 1000 rds. into loading on my RL1100) because the upward pressure placed on the primer seating station “can” and “will” cause an occasional case to become “wedged” slightly sideways in the rotating toolhead slot it resides in and the. Next thing you thing know is when the powder funnel comes down it can put a small crease on the top edge of that case it is belling…Placing a foot die into the primer station will eliminate this completely and provide more consistent primer seating depth….Yep - I am still reading and learning from everyone’s past posts related to the Lessons Learned by so many other good folks here….

 

 

 

 

[Cuz]

33 minutes ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

 

One of the reasons I was wanting to go to the F W Arms decapping die is because I have it on hand and even after filing the decapping pin on my Lee “U” die resizing/decapping die I am still experiencing 1-2 rounds per hundred that are getting sucked back up into the case and as a result when that case gets to the swage station it ruins the case and causes the press to want to freeze up on the down stroke….
 

 

33 minutes ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

ya know, I always thought pre-processing brass was a complete waste of time, but after less than 1000 rounds on my 1100, the primer suck back issue has me thinking about getting one of those Lee APP presses to deprime cases before I clean them. Then I don’t have to worry about stuck primers during loading. 
 

Mark, I was originally going to ask why you didn’t just set up the dies the way Dillon recommended, but now after reading through these posts I find myself looking to order a Lee 9mm U-die since all I use is range pick-up for 9mm. I sort of thought I had it covered by ordering a Hundo gauge to check my ammo. 
 

I don’t want to replace my toolhead, but I would like to solve the primer issue. I have filed the Dillon decapping pin, and it happens less often, but even once or twice every 100 rounds is way too much. 
 

[George16]

Hey Mark, how about do a dry run of your planned setup and see for your self if having the sizing die on station 3 is sufficient enough to hold down the case against the swage bar? I did that before and it worked but since I process and reload in two separate steps, I didn’t pursue it.

 

With the sizing die in station three, you’ll be surprised how the sizing die (without the decapping pin) pushes down on the case and the swage bar tip pushing it up against the sizing die actually sizes the case better because it gets it closer to the rim compared to a regular setup. 
 

With regards to having a threaded hole for the priming station to keep the case in place, I don’t have a need for it since proper alignment and setup of the priming station is more than enough to provide me a consistent primer seating depth during the reloading process.

[ddc]

4 hours ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

DDC - Your question is one of my “unknowns” at this point.  My thought was to remove the decapping pin and then screw down the unit that holds the decapping pin like a swage hold down die.  I have not examined the Lee “U” die to see if this is even a viable option. If it is not then I will need to re-think this stations set up because I am not sure that utilizing just the Lee “U” die will provide the right resistance n the right location to allow the swage rod to do its job effectively.  
 

This was my thought - I will see if I can try this today and will let you know if it works…..To your point I had not considered flipping the decapping pin to support this stations swage process.  Thanks for suggesting this as I will also give this a try.

 

Thanks for your questions and suggestions…Greatly appreciate your support…Mark

 

Mark, I have heard of people doing exactly as you describe although I don't have any links.

I have done something similar though.

Before I got my CNC shooter tool head I experimented briefly with mounting a Lyman M die in that location.

 

So that worked fine as far as flaring is concerned.

 

However since I sort my brass for only brass that typically does not have crimped pockets I can't speak to whether or not it provided sufficient backing for the swage process.

I've since moved on to other configurations.

 

Edited to add: I'm going to guess that the sizing die will work as a swage backer as far as the swaging process itself is concerned.

However a longer term concern would be will it keep the shell plate from flexing to the point where eventually there is a fatigue failure there?

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by ddc

[cbrussell]

Mark, not that when ordering the Level 10 Innovations Primer Hold Down Die for the non-threaded station hole, you need to accurately measure the hole diameter when ordering; they make the die to fit. Mine fit like a

glove.

[Sigarmsp226]

1 hour ago, cbrussell said:

Mark, not that when ordering the Level 10 Innovations Primer Hold Down Die for the non-threaded station hole, you need to accurately measure the hole diameter when ordering; they make the die to fit. Mine fit like a

glove.

 

Thanks for this detail.  I just watched a couple of videos on YouTube and this unit really looks like it will work based on me using range pick-up brass (various head stamps therefore various thicknesses).  I will measure my tool head to ensure that it is .563-.565 like others have indicated. 

 

I am guessing I should order a die that is - what - .002" (thousands) less than my tool head measurement??

[Sigarmsp226]

Quick Update - Tom (owner of CNC Shooter has already responded to my email and advised that today his company does not have any of the threaded 4th station tool heads in stock for RL1100 "manual system" but has a couple in stock for RL1100's that are "auto drive" systems (I did not know there would be a difference in the tool heads for a manual vs. auto drive system but Tom is the expert). 

 

Tom did say they will have more in the near future and would notify me when he does.  I will post that update here when I receive his email.  

 

Mark

[Cuz]

I wonder what the difference is? 

[ddc]

Interesting, this is the first time ever I've heard of specific models.

I've never seen them marketed in that fashion.

I wonder if the autodrive version has no provision for attaching a ratchet?

[cbrussell]

That is my bet; no ratcheting system. Tom is good people.

[ddc]

2 minutes ago, cbrussell said:

That is my bet; no ratcheting system. Tom is good people.

 

Yes, it seems that way. I appreciated that he was very responsive to emails. 

That's usually a good sign.

[ddc]

49 minutes ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

Quick Update - Tom (owner of CNC Shooter has already responded to my email and advised that today his company does not have any of the threaded 4th station tool heads in stock for RL1100 "manual system" but has a couple in stock for RL1100's that are "auto drive" systems (I did not know there would be a difference in the tool heads for a manual vs. auto drive system but Tom is the expert). 

 

Tom did say they will have more in the near future and would notify me when he does.  I will post that update here when I receive his email.  

 

Mark

 

Hey Mark, if you get a chance to ask him what the difference is I'd be interested. Thanks.

[Sigarmsp226]

DDC - Happy to do so.  In fact I will email him now and let you know what he says....Mark

[mkmckinley]

Here’s what I’m doing at the moment with explanations. 
 

CASE PREP:

1. Wash and rinse: Water/Alcohol/KOH/D-Lead wash and rinse in cement mixer
2. Dry in pot/hot plate/thermometer
3. Sort via case sorter w/ .380 plate
4. Rollsize/inspect for debris, pins, stepped, non-brass, non-9x19 etc.
5. Run through press: Lube w/ One-shot, Station 2: FW decap, 3: FW swage, 8: Dillon size die w/decap removed.
6. Wash with Armorall Wash and Wax + lemishine + dishwasher detergent, (steel pins not needed) (wax component is case lube)
7. Dry in pot/hot plate combo

 

LOAD:

1. Casefeed
2. Size/decap (doesn’t need lanolin lube b/c already sized, size die now mainly to repeatably center shellplate and back up decap)
3. Swage (add NOE expander here. Brass already swaged once, this is really just a check to make sure no spent primer, Depth: bury expander in case. Expander should be .002 under/over bullet)
4. Prime w/ hold down die
5. Powder drop only (adjust Dillon or SSI powder funnel to only drop powder, no need to bell/expand here bc already expanded at station 3 using NOE, no stick b/c armoral wash and wax)(watch powder bar in lieu of powder check die)
6. Bullet drop
7. Bullet seat
8. Taper crimp 

Running a separate brass prep stage gives each case two runs through a decapper and two decap confirmations at the swage station. I may move the rollsizer to after the press so I can visually inspect for no primer next time I go through a bunch of brass. This procedure also results in clean ammo without case lube everywhere. I get a smooth running press and <1% failure rate in my hundo.

 

The brass prep stage saves tine loading, cuts down on wasted components, and increases safety and reliability of ammo.

[Cuz]

4 hours ago, mkmckinley said:

Here’s what I’m doing at the moment with explanations. 
 

CASE PREP:

1. Wash and rinse: Water/Alcohol/KOH/D-Lead wash and rinse in cement mixer
2. Dry in pot/hot plate/thermometer
3. Sort via case sorter w/ .380 plate
4. Rollsize/inspect for debris, pins, stepped, non-brass, non-9x19 etc.
5. Run through press: Lube w/ One-shot, Station 2: FW decap, 3: FW swage, 8: Dillon size die w/decap removed.
6. Wash with Armorall Wash and Wax + lemishine + dishwasher detergent, (steel pins not needed) (wax component is case lube)
7. Dry in pot/hot plate combo

 

LOAD:

1. Casefeed
2. Size/decap (doesn’t need lanolin lube b/c already sized, size die now mainly to repeatably center shellplate and back up decap)
3. Swage (add NOE expander here. Brass already swaged once, this is really just a check to make sure no spent primer, Depth: bury expander in case. Expander should be .002 under/over bullet)
4. Prime w/ hold down die
5. Powder drop only (adjust Dillon or SSI powder funnel to only drop powder, no need to bell/expand here bc already expanded at station 3 using NOE, no stick b/c armoral wash and wax)(watch powder bar in lieu of powder check die)
6. Bullet drop
7. Bullet seat
8. Taper crimp 

Running a separate brass prep stage gives each case two runs through a decapper and two decap confirmations at the swage station. I may move the rollsizer to after the press so I can visually inspect for no primer next time I go through a bunch of brass. This procedure also results in clean ammo without case lube everywhere. I get a smooth running press and <1% failure rate in my hundo.

 

The brass prep stage saves tine loading, cuts down on wasted components, and increases safety and reliability of ammo.

i like this setup, but have a couple questions. 
Regarding prep:

In station 3, how is FW swage different from Dillons?

in station 8, why not leave decapping pin installed as a fail safe?

 

regarding load:

Whats an NOE expander? 
and why use it over the MBF powder funnel/expander in powder station?

 

Thanks. 

[mkmckinley]

--"In station 3, how is FW swage different from Dillons?" A: FW Swage doesn't bell the mouth of the case like the Dillon die. It would be ok to use the Dillon die here but it would just get sized back down again. Less drag with the FW Arms die and easier on the brass. 

 

--"In station 8, why not leave decapping pin installed as a fail safe?" A: I may be wrong but I think you can only decap in station 2 because that's the only one with a hole for the primer to drop into. It could be possible to adjust the decapping pin to work in station 8, I may have to try that. 

 

--"What's an NOE expander?" A: Basically you get a universal Lee expander die and replace the universal expander insert with one from NOE bullet molds that's sized specifically for your bullet. It's like $25 for the Lee die and one expander, and the expanders are only $6.50 each. The NOE expander has a range of .004" and you want it to be .002" over and under your bullet. So for a .356" bullet you would use the .354/.358 expander. This allows good bullet hold without resizing the bullet or otherwise deforming it (https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/expanders/)

 

--"Why use [an NOE expander] over the MBF powder funnel/expander in powder station?" A: The NOE expander does the same thing as the MBF funnel but you can tune the NOE to the exact size of your bullet. This can help with .356 or .357 coated lead vs .355 jacketed for instance. It's also easier to adjust the Lee/NOE combo than the powder though die/funnel. It's a fairly cheap/easy idea to make the press run a little smoother and more precisely but it's far from necessary. 

 

I've thought about it and I will move the rollsizer to the last step before loading so I can inspect primer holes while looking for messed up cases.  That way every case gets two decaps, two swages, and a visual check before priming. 

 

[ddc]

1 hour ago, mkmckinley said:

 

--"In station 8, why not leave decapping pin installed as a fail safe?" A: I may be wrong but I think you can only decap in station 2 because that's the only one with a hole for the primer to drop into. It could be possible to adjust the decapping pin to work in station 8, I may have to try that. 

 

 

 

On an 1100 stations 6,7,8 have a "drain hole" cast into the frame.

 

On my processing tool head I've got the FW decapper in station 2.

 

I have a Lee sizer/decapper in station 7 with the pin.

 

If a primer makes it past the FW arms die then the Lee die will catch it. That has happened occasionally  although quite rare.

When it does it just falls through the drain hole on to my bench.

 

(On my machine the "drain hole" in station 7 doesn't always allow the primer to drop all the way through. 

When that happens they will back up. The drain hole in station 8 has a little more clearance. 

On my next processing run I'll either shift my die to station 8 or attempt to smooth out and/or enlarge the hole for station 7.)

 

[Cuz]

Thanks for the info mkmkinly and DDC. After loading a couple hundred rounds of preprocessed brass, I’d say there is quite a difference. 
 

So now I need to find an RL1100 tool head in stock somewhere. 
 

Also, FW Arms makes 2 decapping dies, which one are you guys using?

 

[HOGRIDER]

10 minutes ago, Cuz said:

Thanks for the info mkmkinly and DDC. After loading a couple hundred rounds of preprocessed brass, I’d say there is quite a difference. 
 

So now I need to find an RL1100 tool head in stock somewhere. 
 

Also, FW Arms makes 2 decapping dies, which one are you guys using?

 

BSPS is great to deal with:

 

https://benstoegerproshop.com/dillon-precision-rl-1100-toolhead/

 

Even though I don't have one of FW Arms decappers...........yet.........they do give some good info concerning the two they offer:

 

[quote]

NEW DESIGN FOR HI-VOLUME AUTOMATED PROCESSING

After a ton of great reviews and feedback the #1 most requested feature that customers wanted to see was a spring loaded tip to help prevent stubborn primers from getting sucked back into the case.  Well here it is, and it has been working amazing for the testers.  We decided to use a standard coil spring to ensure long spring life, it gives a very nice ‘pop’ sound letting you know primers are falling out.  We’ve fitted the of the unit with an o-ring so you can remove the guide rod and replace the pin if needed.  This unit also has planned expansions that can be added.  Each unit comes with 2 extra tips.

Since this die was made for the automated press user it’s maximum parent case it can handle is 308 Win.  This works great on pistol and rifle.  This die is really geared to the reloader who processes 10ks or 100ks of cases per month.  If you generally only process a few thousand cases at a time I would check out our original decapper here.[/quote]

 

Good luck!