RL1100 Die SCRAMBLE - Stepping outside of my comfort zone

[mkmckinley]

My FW Arms is gold colored, not sure which one.

 

Im on a 1050, I would totally run 2 or even 3 decappers if I had drain holes in 6, 7, 8.

 

I just got a CNC Shooter toolhead for about the same price as OEM Dillon. It has a threaded station over primer and seems to be very high quality.

[mkmckinley]

One note I will make on the FW Arms swage backer. Make sure to adjust it so it just barely touches the bottom of the case. It’s possible to screw it in too far and gouge into the bottom of the case. This damages the case by pushing the bottom of the primer pocket down a little.

[Cuz]

41 minutes ago, mkmckinley said:

One note I will make on the FW Arms swage backer. Make sure to adjust it so it just barely touches the bottom of the case. It’s possible to screw it in too far and gouge into the bottom of the case. This damages the case by pushing the bottom of the primer pocket down a little.

can you do any damage to press or brass by leaving the top die part empty on the processing tool head?

 

the bottom swager part will still be operating, just without the hold down. 

[mkmckinley]

42 minutes ago, Cuz said:

can you do any damage to press or brass by leaving the top die part empty on the processing tool head?

 

the bottom swager part will still be operating, just without the hold down. 

I'm far from an expert but the swage rod does put a fair amount of pressure upward onto the shellplate through the case. Without a hold down you can see the shellplate flex upward as the case rim pushes up against it. I think without a hold down of some sort you would lose the "feel" you get when there's still a primer at station 3 because the shellplate would flex up instead of the swage rod stopping on the spent primer. You also might damage the case rim by jamming it up into the steel shellplate. If I were trying to go without a hold down in station 3 I'd probably do no swage as well, just to be safe.

 

You could do your flaring in station 3 to give some downward pressure on the casing, or you could put a size die (or even a universal decapper sans pin) in that station screwed all the way down to at least put some downward pressure on the shellplate. That is all just just conjecture on my part. 

[Sigarmsp226]

On 6/29/2021 at 12:13 PM, ddc said:

 

Hey Mark, if you get a chance to ask him what the difference is I'd be interested. Thanks.

 

DDC - Tom emailed me back.  I copied and pasted his entire response so that it would make sense to those who have their RL1100 set up on an auto-drive system....

 

 

Hi Mark,

 

When we started designing these they were done for automated machines primarily, so there's that big spring in the back that helps raise the toolhead back up on manual machines. Automated machines don't use that spring. When material costs went up and we were tweaking designs to help reduce cost to avoid increasing our prices, we decided that we didn't need the recess in the back pin to accommodate the spring. It turns out on manual machines with a spring, the lack of that recess does not allow the toolhead to go down all the way because the spring compresses fully before the toolhead is all the way down, preventing a full stroke. In all future toolheads, we will be re-adding that recess so it won't make a difference whether the machine is automatic or manual. As of our last communication, we only had toolheads left without the recess, and I think as of today everything is all sold out.

I'll be in touch soon

Thanks,

Tom

[ddc]

Hey thanks Mark.

 

I just checked mine and I have one with the recess and one without.

I took my spring off to accommodate the Ammobot prior to using the tool heads so I never realized the difference between the two.

 

Although my machine is automated I often cycle it manually for various reasons. 

That return spring is not necessary for manual operation although if not installed the tool head will sink unless it is fully raised.

If I had a manual machine I'd definitely use the spring.

 

[Sigarmsp226]

3 minutes ago, ddc said:

Hey thanks Mark.

 

I just checked mine and I have one with the recess and one without.

I took my spring off to accommodate the Ammobot prior to using the tool heads so I never realized the difference between the two.

 

Although my machine is automated I often cycle it manually for various reasons. 

That return spring is not necessary for manual operation although if not installed the tool head will sink unless it is fully raised.

If I had a manual machine I'd definitely use the spring.

 

DDC - If you decide you want to sell the toolhead that works for manual RL1100 systems please message me.  I understand if you want to keep it…Tom did tell me that they will be making more units for both systems in the near future and I am on his list to receive an email when they are ready…Mark

[ddc]

2 minutes ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

DDC - If you decide you want to sell the toolhead that works for manual RL1100 systems please message me.  I understand if you want to keep it…Tom did tell me that they will be making more units for both systems in the near future and I am on his list to receive an email when they are ready…Mark

 

Hi Mark, yeah I'm going to keep it.  The fact that it has the spring recess is not a negative for an automated machine.

 

I'm betting it won't be too long before they are available. When I ordered mine from immortobot they were out of stock but allowed backorders. It was about a month before they got their next batch in. Unfortunately they no longer carry them as far as I know.

[Cuz]

Is the only real difference between this and the OEM toolhead the threading in station 4?

[mkmckinley]

The CNC toolhead I just got has the recess. I might have gotten the last one he had in stock!

 

That said, the LVL10 Innovations and the Everglades Ammo hold down dies work just fine in the OEM toolhead. 

[ddc]

30 minutes ago, Cuz said:

Is the only real difference between this and the OEM toolhead the threading in station 4?

 

That is the primary difference.

The case feed cam is a little wider.

You can adjust the indexing pin up and down.

The indexing pin itself seemed to be exactly vertical in contrast to the stock Dillon which had a very slight angle.

I'm probably missing something but that's what comes to mind.

 

[Sigarmsp226]

 

MkMckinley - Thanks for posting your processing steps earlier in this thread. I re-read it several times and have plans to try a couple of your ideas when I am able to purchase a CNC toolhead.  Might consider going to a two pass process.  I also did do a little research yesterday on the Level 10 primer hold down die and as a result of your post I mow have one on order….Because all of the brass I shoot in 9mm is range pick-up I decided I really needed to have this spring loaded hold down on my toolhead….I have already experienced a few cases coming out of the primer station at a “wedged cant” and when those rounds hit the powder drop station the belling unit buggers up the case opening just enough to make it non-usable…Only happens on 2-3 rounds per hundred but hat is to much for me but it is because those cases are slightly thicker.  

I am excited to get this unit in and installed. Thanks for posting the details you did…Greatly appreciated….Mark

[mkmckinley]

Glad to hear it! I've learned a lot form the members on here. It seems to be the only forum that discusses loading specifically for the type of loading I do. The whole enterprise is always a work in progress, so if you come up with any tweaks be sure to post!

 

Just to mess around, I did try a full decapping die at station 8 in my 1050. It actually works, you just have to manually flick away a spent primer if it ends up on there. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by mkmckinley

[George16]

I do a two-step processing /loading for 9mm.

 

Here’s my processing tool head on the right. It has the following:

Station 2 - FW Arms decapper 

Station 3 - Dillon rifle hold down die  (you can see the rifle hold down die on the second picture; bottom left. This is an extra die lying around this since I’m using an FW Arms Swage hold down for rifle processing)

Station 4 - empty

station 5 - empty

station 6 - empty

station 7 - Lee U-die without the decapping pin 

Station 8 - Redding recapping/sizing die (it’s just an extra laying around so I put it in to make sure no primers get by) 

On the left is my loading tool head with the following dies:

station 2 - none

station 3 - Dillon 9mm hold down

station 4 - none (priming station and all primers are seated between .002”-006” below flush)

station 5 - MBF powder funnel

Station 6 - MBF

Station 7 - Redding competition seating die

station 8 - Lee FCD

 

i don’t have the Everglades or any other gizmo on station 4 and haven’t encountered any problems seating the primers properly. 

 

[mkmckinley]

George, Nice setup! Is there a reason you don’t run a “just in case” size/decap in station 2 on the loading cycle?

[Cuz]

Now that I’m almost positive I’m going to go with a two pass system, I am digging this thread. I like reading what everyone is doing to setup their toolheads. Keep the options coming so I can study up before I start ordering stuff. 

[George16]

30 minutes ago, mkmckinley said:

George, Nice setup! Is there a reason you don’t run a “just in case” size/decap in station 2 on the loading cycle?

Thank you.

 

I do remove and install the Redding decap/sizing die and put it on station 2 during the loading cycle.

[Cuz]

On 6/29/2021 at 10:50 AM, cbrussell said:

Mark, not that when ordering the Level 10 Innovations Primer Hold Down Die for the non-threaded station hole, you need to accurately measure the hole diameter when ordering; they make the die to fit. Mine fit like a

glove.

Ok, I need one of these. 
what exactly am I supposed to be measuring, and how do I do so?

 

on the website it looks like there are 2 things to measure, one is the 4” length, and then a diameter, but you can only pick one of them???

[cbrussell]

Yeah, it was a bit confusing. You need to measure the inside diameter of the hole. Evidently, they vary a bit from press to press. I used my the inside measuring portion of my calipers to get the correct diameter. 

[cbrussell]

Then I selected the measurement from the drop down list.

[Cuz]

59 minutes ago, cbrussell said:

Then I selected the measurement from the drop down list.

 

Ok, so that covers the inside dimension.  Now what about the 4.125" or 4.25" or 4.375" replacement rod thingy???

And, just getting back to the inside dimension question, I can't seem to reliably get the same dimension twice.  But, when I do, is that the dimension I order, or do I order a size smaller so it fits???

 

[Sigarmsp226]

Cuz - I can answer part of your questions because I emailed the good folks at Level 10. I was told to provide the actual ID measurement I came up with in their drop down menu.  My RL1100 toolhead primer slot measured 0.560” and this is what I selected. I was told that they custom make each die and that they will deduct what is needed to allow the die they send you to fit into your toolhead hole….I, like you, seemed to get two measurements on mine (I measured from the top and the bottom) and my measurements were consistently 0.560” and 0.561” so when I ordered my die I selected 0.560” in their drop down menu.  When you select your hole ID the price will change so be prepared for that.  The price you see when you first look at the die on lone is for a replacement pin - not the complete die system….

 

I think the first three selections you see are replacement hold down pins that they sell in the event you cannot screw the die down as far as needed to provide the recommended distance for proper use.  I am guessing the die comes with a standard size hold down pin (I saw where the pin they provide is also reversible - one end for rifle and one end of pistol).  
 

Anyone who knows differently please correct my comments above. Having received an email from Level 10 I am very confident about my comments in the first paragraph above….Mark

Edited July 2, 2021 by Sigarmsp226

[Cuz]

22 minutes ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

Cuz - I can answer part of your questions because I emailed the good folks at Level 10. I was told to provide the actual ID measurement I came up with in their drop down menu.  My RL1100 toolhead primer slot measured 0.560” and this is what I selected. I was told that they custom make each die and that they will deduct what is needed to allow the die they send you to fit into your toolhead hole….I, like you, seemed to get two measurements on mine (I measured from the top and the bottom) and my measurements were consistently 0.560” and 0.561” so when I ordered my die I selected 0.560” in their drop down menu.  When you select your hole ID the price will change so be prepared for that.  The price you see when you first look at the die on lone is for a replacement pin - not the complete die system….

 

I think the first three selections you see are replacement hold down pins that they sell in the event you cannot screw the die down as far as needed to provide the recommended distance for proper use.  I am guessing the die comes with a standard size hold down pin (I saw where the pin they provide is also reversible - one end for rifle and one end of pistol).  
 

Anyone who knows differently please correct my comments above. Having received an email from Level 10 I am very confident about my comments in the first paragraph above….Mark

 

Whoa, I was not expecting that kind of price change!  From $12 to $93 is a big change.  I think I'll hold off on this die to see if I really need it.

I did just order the FW Arms "popper" decapper and Swage hold down die.  Waiting to hear about another toolhead.  I think I'll stick to Dillon OEM for that.  I thought I was sort of done when I bought the RL 1100 press... then bullet feeder... etc. etc.  Now another tool head, and more dies, just to keep those pesky primers from getting sucked back up and messing with my loading rhythm.   

[George16]

7 minutes ago, Cuz said:

 

Whoa, I was not expecting that kind of price change!  From $12 to $93 is a big change.  I think I'll hold off on this die to see if I really need it.

I did just order the FW Arms "popper" decapper and Swage hold down die.  Waiting to hear about another toolhead.  I think I'll stick to Dillon OEM for that.  I thought I was sort of done when I bought the RL 1100 press... then bullet feeder... etc. etc.  Now another tool head, and more dies, just to keep those pesky primers from getting sucked back up and messing with my loading rhythm.   

Now you know why I have three tool heads .

 

Anyway, you’ll like the popper decapper. The decapping pin is spring loaded so you’ll hear the “pop” after it pushes out the spent primer out of the primer pocket. Both dues are also Auto-centering so you’ll be confident the case goes in centered.

[Sigarmsp226]

Guys - Worth mentioning - I just received my Dillon Blue Press July catalog and Dillon has raised prices (7% to 10%) across the board on RL1100 presses (now $2250.00 with carbide pistol dies or steel rifle dies and $2350.00 with carbide rifle dies) and accessories (I did not look at the XL650 press prices or accessories yet to compare)…Just thought I would share because two of the on-line companies that I buy from that carry Dillon presses and accessories have not reflected this price increase -yet…I did not want to but decided to pull the trigger on another OEM toolhead and stand - just picked both up at BSPS at old prices…Mark