Revolver Holster Legal for Production Div

[varminter22]

Is this CompTac "International" holster legal for USPSA Production Division?  

 

[teros135]

I would think nope.  D4-20

[IVC]

Specifically, D4-20 states: "Revolver holsters open no lower than halfway down the cylinder."

 

Separately, D4 Special Conditions 3, requires a gun to be on the approved list. The list has a generic approval of "any revolver up to..." for several manufacturers (S&W, Ruger, Taurus, Colt), but not for all. Revolvers not on the list are still not allowed in Production, while they are likely fine in Revolver. 

[varminter22]

I was afraid I would hear that.  The cylinder is covered half way but the barrel is not covered half way.  

 

I'm fairly confident, however, that D4 Special Conditions 3 does not prohibit the S&W M627.  The "approved gun list" for S&W actually says, "Any DAO or DA/SA revolver with a barrel length of up to 8.5" is approved)"

 

Dang, another holster to buy.  But what holster does meet the criteria?  

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by varminter22

[IVC]

Here are two that should work - if the barrel of your gun protrudes, it should be exempt as "Yaqui" holster in D4-20. In both cases the the cut doesn't go further than the half of the cylinder. 

 

[IVC]

Here are the markings for your reference. The first one is "Speed Beez" made by CompTac (same as what you have, just different branding), the second is an older Safariland (no idea if they still make them) with soft liner that looks like (or is) suede. I believe Speed Beez can be ordered in the same configuration that goes high on the cylinder, but with the longer body. The one in the photo is technically for 2.5" barrel, although clearly it works with any N frame.

 

As a side issue, the two guns are a 627PC V-Comp and a 929. Both have quite long barrels and V-Comp is not production legal because of the muzzle brake (haven't checked the barrel length requirements, I would only shoot them in Revolver division anyways and I would use a DAA race holster there). 

 

[IVC]

Another quick note on 627 in general, just in case you're not aware. Most, if not all 38 Special ammunition is sub-minor. If you want to shoot 627 you're either looking at the full load 357 Magnums, or you have to reload 38 Short Colt and make sure you make the PF. Of course, you can load hot 38 Specials (out of SAAMI specs) or down-load the 357 Magnum since your 627 can handle it all, but they are both very long cartridges that are not the best for reloading on the clock.

 

In Revolver division you'll see 9mm and 38 Short Colt for minor and 45 ACP for major, with some also shooting .40/10 in their S&W 610, but those are rare. 

[varminter22]

1 hour ago, IVC said:

 

Not a problem.  I use .38 Short Colt exclusively, loaded to 127 to 130 PF.  Easily done.

[PatJones]

8 hours ago, varminter22 said:

Is this CompTac "International" holster legal for USPSA Production Division?  

 

Are you trying to shoot a match that doesn't offer revolver division?

[Mcfoto]

Guns need to be on the Production list to be legal. Just checked, no S&W revolvers there.

[Sarge]

3 minutes ago, Mcfoto said:

Guns need to be on the Production list to be legal. Just checked, no S&W revolvers there.

Yes there are 

S&W

Website: www.smith-wesson.com

Notes: (Any DAO or DA/SA revolver with a barrel length of up to 8.5" is approved) 

[PatJones]

4 minutes ago, Mcfoto said:

Guns need to be on the Production list to be legal. Just checked, no S&W revolvers there.

Huh?

[Joe4d]

4 hours ago, IVC said:

Another quick note on 627 in general, just in case you're not aware. Most, if not all 38 Special ammunition is sub-minor. If you want to shoot 627 you're either looking at the full load 357 Magnums, or you have to reload 38 Short Colt and make sure you make the PF. Of course, you can load hot 38 Specials (out of SAAMI specs) or down-load the 357 Magnum since your 627 can handle it all, but they are both very long cartridges that are not the best for reloading on the clock.

 

In Revolver division you'll see 9mm and 38 Short Colt for minor and 45 ACP for major, with some also shooting .40/10 in their S&W 610, but those are rare. 

?  Bit out of left field.

158's at 822 fps ( 130pf) not exactly what I would call thors hammer. Quick look at Lymans and they arnt even in plus P territory.  Dont recall chrono ing factory though,,, humm dont recall buying factory.

 

Far as Holsters I am pretty happy with a Bladetech dropped and offset... However I enjoy my old school basket weave rig. I am not winning anything anyways, But I look cool and thats the most important.

[AzShooter]

38 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

?  Bit out of left field.

158's at 822 fps ( 130pf) not exactly what I would call thors hammer. Quick look at Lymans and they arnt even in plus P territory.  Dont recall chrono ing factory though,,, humm dont recall buying factory.

 

Far as Holsters I am pretty happy with a Bladetech dropped and offset... However I enjoy my old school basket weave rig. I am not winning anything anyways, But I look cool and thats the most important.

Love this setup.  Good leather beats kydex any day.  

 

Factory 38 Specials do not make minor power factor.  In ICORE we tested a number of brands and ended up just saying certain factory ammo could be used without having to chrono.  Most were around 110 PF.  USPSA does not have that same rule.

[varminter22]

1 hour ago, Mcfoto said:

Guns need to be on the Production list to be legal. Just checked, no S&W revolvers there.

You didn't look far enough:

 

download (uspsa.org)

 

QUOTE

S&W www.smith-wesson.com (Any DAO or DA/SA revolver with a barrel length of up to 8.5" is approved)

UNQUOTE

[varminter22]

1 hour ago, PatJones said:

Are you trying to shoot a match that doesn't offer revolver division?

No.  However, many matches have no Rev Div shooters.  Kinda fun to shoot revolver in Prod Div.  

 

For handgun competition, my first love was my M625.  When the 8-shot became legal, it took me a while to warm up to the idea, but I finally did, and of course I like it.  

 

I have used, since my beginning, an old leather Safariland #002; I still have and still use it for both the 625 and the 627.  Also use a James Austin moon clip server (and love it).    

Edited March 28, 2021 by varminter22

[varminter22]

I may still get a Prod legal holster.   (Actually, I have an old Kramer leather (probably horse hide) holster that I have used and got classified with, but it is far from optimum.)  

 

But now I'm kinda trying to talk myself out of it.  Hell, almost all Prod shooters have moved to CO (around here anyway.)  

Edited March 28, 2021 by varminter22

[varminter22]

40 minutes ago, AzShooter said:

Love this setup.  Good leather beats kydex any day.  

 

Factory 38 Specials do not make minor power factor.  In ICORE we tested a number of brands and ended up just saying certain factory ammo could be used without having to chrono.  Most were around 110 PF.  USPSA does not have that same rule.

I can't remember meeting any USPSA or ICORE shooter that uses factory ammo in any caliber!  

[NV Guide]

Larry,   I would just shoot limited or open 

give yourself more options

[varminter22]

1 minute ago, NV Guide said:

Larry,   I would just shoot limited or open 

give yourself more options

I understand that line of thought, Denny, but I've lost a lot of interest in my Kimber 1911 .45 (to the point of thinking about selling it) and I've never had any interest in Open Div nor optic sights in general.  

 

I reckon I like revolvers.  

 

Now, if we had a single action division .....  Hee hee.  

[NV Guide]

Wait— USPSA accommodates all other ideas of Divisions.  Why not single action and open revo minor and major

[IVC]

1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

158's at 822 fps ( 130pf) not exactly what I would call thors hammer. Quick look at Lymans and they arnt even in plus P territory.  Dont recall chrono ing factory though,,, humm dont recall buying factory.

You can easily load them to 130+, it just happens that most factory ammo isn't there.

 

However, if you're already reloading, 38 Special case is way too long to make sense for USPSA. Much better to load 38 Short Colt which is much shorter case and works much better in moon clips. This is what the OP already does so no issue there :-). Also, since it's a 627, it can handle any pressure up to the level of magnum, so you can load 38 Short Colt to pretty much any pressure that the brass will handle (it will get sticky on extraction before it gets to the limit of what the N Frame can handle). 

[IVC]

10 minutes ago, varminter22 said:

I can't remember meeting any USPSA or ICORE shooter that uses factory ammo in any caliber!  

I assume you mean "USPSA Revolver" because plenty of guys use factory ammo outside Open and Revolver. 

[varminter22]

1 minute ago, NV Guide said:

Wait— USPSA accommodates all other ideas of Divisions.  Why not single action and open revo minor and major

Ha, yeah!  

 

If we can have that silly PCC Div, why not a SA Div?  (Now THAT ought to aggravate a few folks!)  LOL

[IVC]

1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

Far as Holsters I am pretty happy with a Bladetech dropped and offset... However I enjoy my old school basket weave rig. I am not winning anything anyways, But I look cool and thats the most important.

That looks nice and you won't loose matches because of the holster. You draw once per stage and most of the time it's on the move so you usually have time to spare.

 

Classifiers are another story, but shooting Production classifiers with Revolver is a, um, interesting concept.