Will 9x21 brass chamber in a 929 ??

[ysrracer]

Asking for a friend

[MWP]

Yes. The 929 is sold as 9mm for that reason- not 9x19

[pskys2]

21 hours ago, MWP said:

Yes. The 929 is sold as 9mm for that reason- not 9x19

Have you actually tried it? Do the 929's have a ledge in the chambers?  so the 9x19 can theoretically be fired without a moon clip?

See that both have the same base/case mouth diameters just a longer case in the 9x21.

Not sure why one would want to do it unless they are an "old" IPSC'er and have a stash of 9x21 cases for their once state of the art Open gun.

[MWP]

I have tried it. I couldn’t tell the difference in it to 9x19 when in moons. I tried it when early on there were so many issues with getting 9x19 brass to work properly. Now that we have those things solved, I haven’t even considered doing it again. 

 

I personally have not tried to shoot a 929 with 9x19 without a moon. I can’t remember anyone trying it either. 
 

I think the reason it is that way is so they can sell the gun in areas where 9x19 isn’t permitted by civilians, and the factory doesn’t mark the gun 9x19 for the same reason. 
 

It’s been a few years now, but I could have sworn there was someone on here who loaded and shot 9x23 in the early 929 days as well. 

[ysrracer]

2 hours ago, pskys2 said:

Not sure why one would want to do it unless they are an "old" IPSC'er and have a stash of 9x21 cases for their once state of the art Open gun.

 

The year was 1991. A fresh faced young kid wanted to go fast like the big dogs...

 

And major was a manly 175.

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by ysrracer

[ysrracer]

I've got about 50 rounds with a 130gr jacketed bullet, and 9gr of either AA#7 or AA#9 (I can't remember)

 

Should I chamber up a few and cap them off?

[pskys2]

14 hours ago, ysrracer said:

 

The year was 1991. A fresh faced young kid wanted to go fast like the big dogs...

 

And major was a manly 175.

 

Ah Yes I remember it well,  I finally dived in with a Para in 38 Super, never could get a decent trigger on it, and then built a Hi-Cap Caspian again in 38 Super.  Then along came the split to Open/Limited (Just after I made Master!) sold the HiCaps, just before the 1994 ban (missed out on a bit of cash there too!) and went 45 again!

Came close but never quite caught my hair on fire, did you?

[ysrracer]

Springfield Armory P9's and their clones had the best triggers, once converted to single action.

 

Now I'm old and slow, and a Ba, Ba, Bud man, and a Re, Re, Revo fan

Edited November 15, 2020 by ysrracer

[RobW]

Interested to see if this works out, I've got a pile of 9x21 laying around.

[EEH]

I wouldn’t try major in the 929, 

[MWP]

16 hours ago, ysrracer said:

I've got about 50 rounds with a 130gr jacketed bullet, and 9gr of either AA#7 or AA#9 (I can't remember)

 

Should I chamber up a few and cap them off?

Not unless you don’t want to not have a functioning 929 anymore. 

[tomjerry1]

Question is why? Just because, you can't shoot major with it, so why? If you where trying to shoot major "open", I'd understand, but why?

[MikeBurgess]

11 hours ago, tomjerry1 said:

Question is why? Just because, you can't shoot major with it, so why? If you where trying to shoot major "open", I'd understand, but why?

probably a decent risk of hurting the cylinder, 

yes 627s can shoot 357s at 35,000 psi, but there is a pretty good chance that a 9x21 or 9x19 major load is running much much higher than that. 

[pskys2]

8 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

probably a decent risk of hurting the cylinder, 

yes 627s can shoot 357s at 35,000 psi, but there is a pretty good chance that a 9x21 or 9x19 major load is running much much higher than that. 

Early on, when the PF was over 165, the pressures of 9major was in the 60,000+range.  I swear in the early '90's some guys started running Glock Open with 9 major, one of the reasons they first specifically outlawed 9 major and then dropped the PF, and when I chrono'd them at an A3 Championships it felt as if the gun swelled as I fired it.  Weird feeling!

[pskys2]

On 11/15/2020 at 11:30 AM, ysrracer said:

Springfield Armory P9's and their clones had the best triggers, once converted to single action.

 

Now I'm old and slow, and a Ba, Ba, Bud man, and a Re, Re, Revo fan

Yes with age comes wisdom!

[pskys2]

19 hours ago, tomjerry1 said:

Question is why? Just because, you can't shoot major with it, so why? If you where trying to shoot major "open", I'd understand, but why?

The only reason to shoot 9 major, or 9x21 major, is to create empties to reload.  I would find another way.

[tomjerry1]

To me, the whole issue of shooting 9mm major was trying to keep up with the pros. They have a very important advantage, sponsors, who support their interests while supporting their own, sales. I came to this sport later in life, ended up shooting Open38SC/S, still do. Shortly there after, everyone started to switch to 9mm major, the reason? cost of brass. I've always questioned this shift, cost of brass, 7000.00 dollar pistol, cost of brass. While I am having no issue obtaining 38SC?s, try to find 9mm brass. I really see no advantage of the 9mm major, get no more rounds in the mag, still shoot the same speed with the same bullet, more issues with feeding from the mag, a lot disagree, but the 9mm wasn't designed to handle that much pressure. In my time shooting open, I have seen far more broken 9s than 38SC/S. I have 2 pistols, one for backup, and see more folks with three 9s, 2 backups, 1 backup for while the main or backup pistol is being repaired. 

So, to my point, why do people want to push the envelope with the revolver, w/titanium cylinder, because they can. Can it do it, yes I am sure, but for how long, and with what result.

[Toolguy]

There may be another reason for the 9 x 21 chamber. A revolver is gravity fed (and ejected). Unlkike a semiauto, where you have 1 round at a time jammed in the chamber by a big spring and a heavy slide, a revolver has to chamber all rounds at once by only the weight of the ammunition. A chamber for a rimmed cartridge has a shallow taper going from the case diameter to the bullet diameter. A chamber for a semi-auto cartridge has a square shoulder for the case mouth to seat against. In the course of firing several rounds, (like in a match), the carbon, powder residue, lead, etc., can build up in the square corner where the case mouth seats and keep the next rounds from going in all the way. This results in binding up the action. By making the chamber 3mm (.118") longer, the normal 9 x 18 ammo can headspace on the moonclip, with some clearance at the case mouth and have a much better chance of fully seating in the chamber of a dirty gun. I think the intent of the manufacturer is to give greater reliability when using normal 9 x 19 ammo.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Toolguy

[tomjerry1]

That is a good thought, I checked my pistol with 9x21 brass and moon clips, they fit with a little extra to spare. I guess that if I was in the possession of a quantity of 9x21, I might use it, loading at the same specs as 9x19. Also checked 9x23, no-go. But I'm in the belief that the 9x19 would serve the shooter better because of over-all case length, less case to interfere with the cylinder. At least what I gather from 38/357 shooters using 38 short cases, it's almost the same length as 9x19. 

[Chillywig]

I've shot a few major pf 38 supers in my 627. The brass expands so much it's almost impossible to eject a moon clip full of empties 

[pskys2]

21 hours ago, Chillywig said:

I've shot a few major pf 38 supers in my 627. The brass expands so much it's almost impossible to eject a moon clip full of empties 

The 627 is designed for the 357 magnum pressures, 38 Super Major loads do reach those levels.  Major 9's exceed them.  

The 929 probably isn't heat treated for those pressures.