Airsoft What Brand? And Where To Buy?

[smokshwn]

I just picked up a very nice all metal WE Hi Capa 5.1 from Airsplat

So far it has run great. It has the same configuration as the Western Arms Guns but comes with a full metal slide. I got the gun, an extra mag, bb's and gas for under $190. The only thing that it needed was to open up the rear notch a little to aid in sight acquisition.

Good luck, Craig

Edited October 20, 2005 by smokshwn

[mike.45]

Craig,

I have got the same gun, they feel better and more realistic than the Western Arms - good choice !!

[Detlef]

nice to hear that they're not that loud, but what about accuracy? Can you hit anything out

to, say, 7 y? What's the group size at that distance? Maybe too far? 3 y?

--Detlef

[smokshwn]

Det,

I set up a target with the a zone cut out and taped a pillow case behind to catch and hold the ammo. So far I have had no trouble keeping rounds in the a zone out to say ten yards. I haven't grouped the gun but I would say it would easily stay around 4" at 7 yds. Good enough for sight pic and recoil recovery practice.

Mike, Its nice to know that half a world away I have a brother!

Craig

[JOETHOMPSON]

Does anyone know if there is a quality airsoft replica of a Hi-cap Caspian? Thank you in advance for the help.

[Kory]

Other than the printable targets what targets do you guys use for practice?

I set up a 1/4 scale Steel Challenge stage in my living room with aluminum plates. It is really a lot of fun shooting Smoke and Hope from your sofa while watching TV; vacuuming up all the broken BB pieces afterwards is not as much fun.

I have heard rumors that some folks shoot indoor IPSC with airsoft, I imagine shorter courses w/o a mag change; but I have never tried it.

I may eventually get one of the STI look alikes, I just have a KWA Glock-19 fake that is about worn out after 25K BB's. The barrel broke(I fixed it), the hop up is worn out, it only works well with one mag, and I don't know where to get spare parts like springs and seals.

[shred]

Mine's 1" accurate at 3 yards. Haven't grouped it beyond that.

[magchange]

I too just bought a WE Hi-capa 5.1 and it is really a very good Sv/Sti copy the only problem is the gas just doesn't work well in the sub freezing temps in my barn, I was hoping for a nice winter practice tool but it just doesn't work well enough to not be a hassle. After doing some research the "top gas" is nothing more than purfumed propane and I'm not sure it would be healthy or safe to shoot in my house, so how are some of you getting away with it? is my info bogus or have you indoor practice guys found a safer gas to use? By the way when it is above 50 degrees outside this thing will dent the heck out of old paint can lids they work great for plate practice to about 7yds. fun to shoot the barn cats with too.

[GuildSF4]

I too just bought a WE Hi-capa 5.1 and it is really a very good Sv/Sti copy the only problem is the gas just doesn't work well in the sub freezing temps in my barn, I was hoping for a nice winter practice tool but it just doesn't work well enough to not be a hassle. After doing some research the "top gas" is nothing more than purfumed propane and I'm not sure it would be healthy or safe to shoot in my house, so how are some of you getting away with it? is my info bogus or have you indoor practice guys found a safer gas to use? By the way when it is above 50 degrees outside this thing will dent the heck out of old paint can lids they work great for plate practice to about 7yds. fun to shoot the barn cats with too.

The gasses (Green gasses) are types of Freon; there may be some propane in one or two types, but not in most. It is supposed to be labeled if it is flammable (Federal law).

[B.J. Norris]

Try using a heating pad to keep the mags and gun warm in between magazines. Works well for me, as long as I stick the gun in there every 2 or 3 mags. Mags have to be warmed slightly before filling them, and I usually let them get warm to touch before using them. Also remember to hold the can on the mag longer in cold weather to fill it a little more, and also longer as the can empties.

BTW, I can hit an IPSC target about 8 out of 10 times at 30 yards with my WE Hi-Capa with .20G BB's, I plan on getting some .25G and see how those work.

[shred]

I saw an ad that CO2 mags are now available for the WE HiCapas. I don't know if that has better cold weather performance than the propane ones (yes Green Gas is most likely oiled propane, not freon like they say-- there are several web sites documenting it.. plus light some and see)

[Kory]

I use regular propane as it comes in 1# Coleman bottles. I had to buy an adapter, the one I homemade was a PITA.

Both brands of green gas I had listed a chemical formula that is impossible, and they both burned just like propane.

Propane is relatively safe, the concentrations required to be flammable will never happen indoors using an airsoft, the crappy mercaptan smell is the bigger problem. It requires windows open to vent the smell, which might not work for you in colder climates.

[smokshwn]

Kory,

Would you care to share the source for your propane adapter. I would love the cost savings off the shelf propane offers vs. the green gas.

Thanks, Craig

[Kory]

I bought it from Airsoft Atlanta, it is made by Airsoft Innovations, it was about $30, it has paid for itself.

Get ready for rotten egg fart smell.

[magchange]

+1 on the airsoft innovations adapter it works well, and the coleman propane bottles are very cheap and you can even get an adapter to refill them from your 20 lb grill tank for about 20.00 from Cabelas.

[Liota]

Other than the printable targets what targets do you guys use for practice?

I've used cardboard boxes with paper targets attached to them at the end of my hallway. Works great.

One precaution. Make sure you change the point of aim occasionally. I dug a hole in the wall with an airsoft once. It was not pleasant filling the hole just before I moved.

Liota

[pmd]

Here's a picture of my Western Arms SVI airsoft that I purchased last year from Speed Shooters International. I modified it a bit to look and feel like my open gun.

I also use an RU Ready Speedtimer 3000 http://www.ruready.com/airgun.htm which works really well with the airsoft.

[Boss]

Just a note, dropping one of the Western Arms mags on a ceramic tile floor results in 1000 pc base pad! Not that I would know from experience or anything.

[IceDragon]

Hi there!

I've just joined you guys. Couldn't help but notice that you guys have just started actively progressing at looking into Airsoft blowback models as viable training tools? -There's also been a much heated debate going on over at IPSC.org's forum about this. As part of this, our guys from the UK managed to send some details of how we do it to one of your colleagues, Jeff LaFave.

To answer somebody's question, yes, there are countries that do Level II IPSC matches using Airsoft (but not above LII due to unfulfilled criteria in rules). Countries include HK (but real-steel is also doable just dearer), Japan and, of course, us in the UK. -Due to the handgun ban in 97, in 2001-ish, it was discovered that we could use Airsoft (as well as, CO2-powered & licensed Brococks) to keep our sport alive. They've been doing it for about 8 yrs in HK & obviously a lot longer in Japan (birthplace of all things Airsoft).

I've just quickly skimread the above posts. Couldn't help but notice you guys are most likely experiencing the same probs that my fellow shooters have experienced in the early days (discovering the technology, troubleshooting & resolution, etc). And please note I've only been in IPSC for 17 months and so I'm still learning. But I hope these pointers that I've learnt along the way from my friends will help you:-

1)Mag changes

As you've found the stock mag pads are no good. What we do is, replace them with replicas of, or the genuine article, Arredondo Flat Mag Pads. Replicas are made by Guarder, CP Custom Parts, etc. If you use the Arredondo ones (I would for those of you in the US out of accessibility & cost of procurement), you'll have to file the guide parts of the pads slightly as the Western Arms mags are a bit of a tight fit.

AND-use a cardboard box with curtains, shirts, anything soft for cushioning when the mag drops into it. -I know a box isn't practical, but it will help save you a damaged mag. We decide where we want to do the mag change and then dump the mag either on the way to the next viewable location for the next target arrays, on our path somewhere, or when I do some side-shuffling, etc, etc.

Other mag maintenance tips - make sure you have silicon oil spray, keep the rubberised part -gas route packing (top part of mag where gas comes out of) lubed. Pt 57 - see attached diagram.

Try to use gas that has inbuilt lubricant. It helps to keep all the internals (orings of valve, e.g.) of the mag in good shape & stop them from drying out.

2)Accuracy

Top shot & friend Mike Cripps has recorded the following groupings:-

"The Infinity (original, NON-SCW) gave a group of 6 shots that measured 4 by 2 inches; the new Expert’s group was 2.5 by 1 inch. I repeated this several times and got more or less the same results."

Distance = 10 metres implied from prior paragraph?

3)Mags, Temperature & Gas

Yes, they really do come into their own when on Green Gas/HFC22 with a high temperature (25C+)! Irrespective of brands, the guns will suffer in the cold. You may notice your shots will drop. With the WA SCW2 series (SCW is Shibuya Custom Works -either a inhouse detachment/custom shop in Japan) of SVIs, they have a more efficient gas system and handle much better in the colder weather.

Warming-up mags will help. But be careful not to overwarm them too much. -They might vent on the first shot/or fail to work after you start your COF! -I think that's happened to me once!

Also, if you have the original 30-Rd magazines (the ones that DONT have plastic nibs at the top), try to keep these in good condition as much as you can - as I've found these are MORE powerful by default compared to the new 33-Rd ones (plastic nibs at top)!!

Guys/girls, be careful - HFC134A is the defacto gas you should use for your stock gas blowbacks, irrespective of make. If you use anything else (like Green Gas/HFC22), it may void your warrenty. If you do want to use powerful gasses, for the WA SVIs, consider an upgrade of metal slide, metal chamber, steel hammer & steel hammer strut, as a minimum.

4)Tuned Triggers & Rapid-Fire Potential

Go to the IPSC debate site (below link) and see some of the times I've recorded & what kind of times you can achieve! Mine's sweet tuned to 3mm pretravel & 2mm reset. Medium-Sized Curved SVI Blade. They also do Enos Up-Curve triggers!

5)Caspian & other Trademarks

I think KSC may make Caspian gas blowbacks, though not sure. If you want a double-stacker, the only way I could think of was to get an original WA SVI and find an aftermarket metal slide with Caspian trademarks (Prime Airsoft?). Because of the passing of time, old product lines & intro of new ones, unfortunately, mate, I don't think you can. If you got friends in Hong Kong around the Airsoft shops, perhaps, they could help you out? This isn't going to help but wgcshop.com HAD both a while ago. I would try your local Airsoft shops, too. E.g. Airsoft Extreme, Santa Barbara.

You'll also find WA make single-stacker style Wilson pistols and more recently, Kimber ones, too! Incl. the LAPD SWAT TL/RLE II Kimber AND the Kimber MEUSOC!!! Even the Dawson rail is reproduced on this!

But yeah, it would be great if Dave Skinner, Dave Dawson or Dave Wilson prompted them to make double-stackers for them (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)! -It would give us so much more variety! Most of us in the UK have SVI handles & chassises, you see. Which is great, don't get me wrong, but it would be nice to see some variety. Like in the HK scene. You get all sorts of grips & chassises - "2011" STI-marked chassis & grips, Brazos slide & frame. And even Athena's Tigercat is custom-made and replicated! -Though I'm guessing that's got a heavy pricetag!:-

http://www.supremeco.com.hk/catalog/produc...roducts_id=2769

Course, if you want to be Athena-faithful, I'm guessing you need to change the C-More & lose the AimPoint?

The off-the-shelf, aftermarket slides (& frames if you buy complete kits) carry all sorts incl. some of your fave household names:-

*Springfield Armory (incl. "Geneseo, Il..." on frame)

*Caspian

*Infinity

*STI Edge/Custom Shop/Grand Master

*Wilson Combat

*Smith & Wesson

*Glock

*Heckler & Koch

*Kimber (incl. "Yonkers, NY..." on frame).

*Para-Ordnance (incl. "Fort Lauderdale, FL." on frame).

6)Western Arms Airsofts in General

Forget about the single stacker Caspian replica you guys/girls read about in Front Sight magazine, the WA SVIs are very sophisticated in functionality & parts (even the internal sears, trigger bow are replicated & grip safety, too!). See attached file.

Just want to let you know I'm NOT affiliated with any Western Arms retailers, etc. I've just found them to be reliable once basic upgrades have been carried-out. I've got one of the originals and even they hold up better than my KSC Glock 19 in cold weather! Which is a blessing when I'm just about to go on a Long Stage!

7)Airsoft IPSC, distance, carboard targets & poppers

For targets, we use what you guys use! We use the Classic IPSC Targets -the diamond-shaped ones. We also use Mini-Rifle versions of this which is exactly the same but half the size and which is used to simulate distance. -Nice workaround for weak gasses and the cold weather. In short, poppers are made from thin metal sheets and are calibrated to drop using the weakest gas (HFC134A) & weakest stock gun (general consensus amongst course designers not personal opinion) KSC Glock. Typical maximum range - 15 metres, at a guess? -But don't forget we have the challenge still of partially, hard-covered targets, different sizes to simulate distance, etc, etc.

Bear in mind, and have heart, when I say that we USED to have a thriving, beautiful real-steel scene in the UK...before 97. I was never one of the owners who had to turn in their guns. So I could never imagine what that is like. Now, the current Govt' in office, wishes to ban the sales, import & manufacture of Airsoft GBBs. As if things couldn't get any worse. Now, existing shooters, as well trying to keep the sport alive, we also shoot REAL-STEEL abroad in Europe or further a field. I hope to travel a bit more in the few coming years.

8)The Airsoft IPSC Debate

It's here:-

http://ipsc.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=2466

Before I go, just want to reassure you I'm not a retailer or anything like that. Just wanted to helpout with some of the probs that you guys were experiencing. I'm not with any company, etc. I'm no expert on technical Airsoft stuff, just passing along tips I've learnt on the way that I hope will benefit you all. Just ask if you need anything else. I'm just a shooter and glad for it, too!

And I'm not some megolomaniac who wants to see Airsoft IPSC succeed over real-steel. Give me real-steel any day! -Less reliability issues and uniquely fun!

Hope this helps!

Lab.

Sources:-

Technical Diagram for WA SVI 5" Series attached.

http://www.practicalpistoluk.com/ubbthread...sb=5&o=&fpart=1

SVLimStd.pdf

Edited December 31, 2005 by IceDragon

[IceDragon]

HKSDU.Com is up & running again. This is a club (of quite a few) in HK. -There's 5000 shooters out there. Just click on any banner and it will more than likely have match results, pics, vids, etc.

If you want to go back further in time:-

http://www.streamingpacific.com/hksdu/10_matches.htm

Fast Rack n Double Tapz,

Lab.

[elcapitan16]

WE has good airsoft pistols

[B.J. Norris]

It's not quite the same as Steel Challenge at Piru, but I set up something very close to Pendelum yesterday in my backyard. I plan on cutting out plates and gongs from 1/4" MDF and building some PVC stands to set everything on, but for now I just hammered target lathe into the ground and stapled paper plates to them. The BB's were spinning off a bit at the 18 yard plates, but that was with .20G BB's, hopefully .25G won't be as bad. Made for some good (though stinky with propane gas) practice, I was able to do over 40 runs in about an hour with only 2 30 rd mags, with 4 or 5 mags you could really go through some BB's.

[IceDragon]

Hiya mate,

try some .3g BBs or .4g BBs. It should give you a straighter flight. -My seniors on the circuit passed this onto me and I've found that it does help.

Ice.

[Genghis]

I've had a KJ M9 (Beretta) for a year or two. I just bought a WE 5.1 (S_I).

I've shot the Beretta to prepare for the IDPA classifier. I used a 1/3 scale target (prints on 8 1/2 by 11 paper) at 1/3 the distance. The slide is plastic, but I think that required less force and extended the life of a can of gas. It's accurate enough at these ranges (20' or less). For less than a hundred bucks, you can't beat it. Airsoftatlanta.com had gas on sale for about ten bucks a can.

I haven't shot the WE as much. It's much, much heavier than the KJ. I got the gun and a spare mag for around $140, shipped, off eBay. The slide is a little jiggly, and the right ambi safety also jiggles (loosely attached to the left part). It seems to use a lot more gas.

I also just bought a book from Gabe Suarez called Force-On-Force Gunfight Training. I've read some of Gabe's stuff, and he seems to have some common sense. The book looks like it has a bunch of good ideas for training with Airsoft guns.

[The Brit.]

Lab gave a lot of info, well presented as is his usual style. You can end up spending a lot of money on these toys, steel slide, steel hammer, upgraded springs, mag mods to increase gas etc.

I use one of the latest W/A svi experts, 5" - out of the box fresh. NO mods at all and I don't do too bad with it. I won the last Championship match (Standard div) of 2005 and placed 2nd (by 1.5%) in the first grader of the year last month.( sorry about blowing my own trumpet!)

So it's the same as real guns. You don't REALLY need all the fancy stuff, stick to the basics and just practice.

Not sure if Lab posted the link to the Western Arms site but here it is

http://www.wa-gunnet.co.jp/english/

You could also try this guy. i get all my kit from him. Not sure about the import laws though, you'll have to check.

http://www.eliteairsoftuk.com/

Cheers.