Prepping The Trigger

[Steelshooter3]

I have been told & read that by prepping the trigger you can reduce split times and become more competive. I've tried working on this but haven't gotten very comfortable with it. To be honest - I'm not sure I really understand the total concept and it spooks me. So my many questions are:

1) Is prepping like two-staging a trigger?

2) How much are you prepping the trigger?

3) When do you start prepping from the draw?

4) What type of feel are you looking for during transitions?

Right now, I wait until my sights are lined up on the target before I start to pull the trigger. I normally shoot a revolver in local steel/plate matches so any advice would be greatly appreciated. Please forgive any posting mistakes. This is my first one and I am not very computer literate.

[underlug]

I have been told & read that by prepping the trigger you can reduce split times and become more competive.  I've tried working on this but haven't gotten very comfortable with it.  To be honest - I'm not sure I really understand the total concept and it spooks me.  So my many questions are:

              1)  Is prepping like two-staging a trigger?

              2)  How much are you prepping the trigger?

              3)  When do you start prepping from the draw?

              4)  What type of feel are you looking for during transitions?

Right now, I wait until my sights are lined up on the target before I start to pull the trigger.  I normally shoot a revolver in local steel/plate matches so any advice would be greatly appreciated.  Please forgive any posting mistakes.  This is my first one and I am not very computer literate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll be the first to commend you to the Jerry Miculek Ultimate Revolver video. Your revolver's cylinder should be in constant motion as you are shooting the gun. The hammer never really stops. The feel is the trigger and cylinder in constant motion. Your finger goes on the trigger after the gun has cleared the holster and it is going toward the target and you start the pull.

[Carmoney]

Welcome aboard Steelshooter3!! Always glad to see new wheelgunner members posting--I'm still pretty much a new guy around here myself!

Personally, I don't think you should worry about consciously trying to prep anything with a DA trigger pull. As you practice and begin to get faster, you'll find yourself sometimes beginning the trigger roll before you actually get the sights perfectly aligned. But I don't think it's something you can really force into your game. It'll happen naturally on its own.

Unless the first target I engage is super-close, I don't believe I'm starting the trigger roll until after the gun is on target and my focus is on the front sight. If it's super-close I just close my eyes and yank like everybody else!

And at the risk of committing heresy, I'm really not sure that some of Jerry's methods and equipment choices (pulling the trigger with the fingertip, serrated triggers, etc., etc.) translate all that well to the rest of us.

I'd be interested in hearing what some of the others have to say in response to your question, though.

Mike

[Bubber]

Underlug got it right, Not that I can do it though. My first shot is very slow because I don't get the trigger moving until I am on target. I can get the cylinder turning on the draw when dry firing but haven't done it much in the loaded condition. ( I have been loaded on occassions ) After you are on target prepping should not play a part in the scheme. Moving from target to target the cylinder shoud be turning at all times.

[rwmagnus]

Prepping the trigger and keeping the cylinder moving is easier said than done. It all makes sense but in reality it depends somewhat on the target distance and no shoot difficulty. I'll admit blasting more than one tight no shoot prepping the trigger on the transition (preped alittle too much, LOL). Those penalty points add up fast.

My preference is gold bead front sight, white outlined rear sight and a smooth surface trigger. Oh yea and Jerry Miculeks speed!

[Steelshooter3]

Thanks for all the input. Will see if we can go from snail speed to tortoise speed with practice.

[R112mercer]

You can speed this process up somewhat with dry firing. After you draw, when your two hands meet the gun at your chest and you begin to punch the gun out and align your sights you can start to take up a little slack on the trigger. It's tough to do on the draw because you have a couple of other things to worry about.

For transitions you should have some sort of practice target setup that as realistically as possible resembles the array you most commonly shoot. Then it's just a matter of feel. As the gun recoils you should let the trigger reset. Then, as you realign the sights, pulling the front sight down from the recoil, you should also take up the slack in the trigger. When the sights are settled you should be on the sweet spot of the trigger.

Smith revolvers have a sweet spot in their trigger pull were the trigger stops and the gun is effectively in single action. With practice pulling the trigger slowly back you can feel a spot where the cylinder stops turning and is locked by the cylinder stop and the trigger is at a point where the slightest additional pressure will trip the hammer. This is the neighborhood you want to be in. With real close shots just blast 'em, but for those long head shots this will help.

In PPC guns they put a trigger stop in the trigger. It's an adjustable screw in the trigger itself with a rubber bumper in it. When you pull the trigger the bumper contacts the back of the trigger guard, and when adjusted properly helps stop the gun at the sweet spot. Guys like the suprise break of the double action pull of the trigger as opposed to shooting single action at the 50 yard line. This is a little much for IPSC and the like (I found it slowed my splits a little) but it sure helps when you're trying to put 24 shots into a 2" x 3" X ring.

[spook]

And at the risk of committing heresy, I'm really not sure that some of Jerry's methods and equipment choices (pulling the trigger with the fingertip, serrated triggers, etc., etc.) translate all that well to the rest of us.         

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm with you on this man. I never got that whole "trigger-prepping-during-recoil-thing" down. My splits are still slow as hell (never went below .20s). I do prep when I go from target to target though.

[D.carden]

I'm not sure about this "prepping" thing.

IMO, once your in rhythm, either slow or fast, stay in a rhythm that allows the trigger to keep moving depending on what the target(s) will require.

Also, dry firing is good exercise for reducing split times to-a-point.

Live firing requires more grip strength than dry firing thus taking away some time for recoil management.

Like the Man says " keep it moving". Economy of motion.

REVOS=D.V.C.

Dan........

[Carmoney]

I don't understand.....what the hell's a GLOCK SHOOTER think he's doing wading into this conversation???

(Did you think we're so absorbed in torque and titanium over here we wouldn't notice?----hmmm?)

[hopalong]

He's trying to tell us how to prep that Double Action Glock trigger......thinks it compares to a Double Action Revolver trigger !!!!!

HOP

Yes Dan we saw !!!!!

[Jerry V]

I warned you Dan, it wasn't a good thing going off to the Safety Area to check out those glocks at the CCS match....... then you bought one

Now looked what's happening........your screwed dude

Watch out ..... more incoming

Edited September 24, 2005 by Jerry V

[Keith]

You guys are BRUTAL!

[8ring]

Shooting a double-action revolver requires an approach different from a semi-auto due to the longer trigger pull. To ensure accuracy, the trigger must pulled smoothly and released at the same speed. The trigger finger should be constantly in motion, more slowly for difficult shots and more quickly for close shots.

This in turn requires a different approach to seeing the sights. Most of us learned to see the target, get a good sight picture, then gently pull the trigger. Think of it as the trigger catching up to the sights. In revolver, it's the opposite; the sights catch up to the trigger.

You have to have confidence in your ability to move the sights from target to target while the cylinder is turning. Practice dryfiring two shots each at three 8 x 11 inch targets set a foot apart and ten feet away. When you "call" good shots on each target, move them a little further apart and speed up the trigger finger. Then take this drill to the range.

I'm only a D revo shooter now but find I can get better groups on USPSA paper targets at 15 yds with .5 second splits keeping the cylinder moving than .75 or longer splits lining up the sights then pulling the trigger. At the match, plan the "tempo" you will shoot each cylinder and stick to it.

Good luck,

Chris

java script:emoticon('')

[RePete]

Prepping the trigger, for the inexperienced, is an accident waiting to happen.

Jerry M has practiced this technique for how many years?

I've been a revolver shooter for years, granted mostly PPC, and have recently started having fun shooting IPSC revolver. You tend to slap the trigger more in IPSC because you only need minute of A-zone rather than minute of X-ring.

I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying even more than a lot of practice is required to become proficient enough to compete safely.

RePete.

[pskys2]

Honestly, I think the Constant Motion, Trigger Prep thing is all Mental. Course some would say I Am "Mental"! But, that's another issue entirely.

We're talking about a few "Hundreds" of a second here. At the most "tenths". Even watching Jerry M's Video, the difference is hardly noticable.

If you look for that "Sweet Spot", you will end up getting jerky. Kind of the same problem 1911 shooters run into when they start working on speed.

You Have to be SMOOOOTH! with either pistol.

What a new shooter should be looking for is Smooth. As the sight comes onto the target start your trigger squeeze. Keep it the same throughout, DON"T STOP! Just line up the sights and keep squeezing, trying to not disturb the sights. At the beginning you may seem slow and the sights may sit on the target for a while. Don't worry, as you gain experience you will learn how fast you can get away with pulling the trigger and still get a good hit at any given range. A 35 yard swinging target requires a slower, more methodical pull than a 5 yard open target.

You will lose, or gain, more time in a course from being jerky, or foot work, than you'll see from the difference of .05 splits. Especially if the point aren't there.

Try Dry Firing with a heavier pull Revolver than you shoot. Concentrating on getting the quickest, smoothest hammer fall without sight disruption. Then "Mentally" start the next pull as part of the last pull. Working on changing targets as it happens.

What's meant when it is said, the trigger release speed must be the same as the pull is you Must THINK of the "STROKE" as one. If you don't then you will hesitate on the next shot, that's the difference between .20 and .30 second splits.

The whole "TRICK" is to get to the point where you don't "THINK" about pulling the trigger on any gun. You just draw and see the Sights and the Target and the gun goes boom! The next thing you know you're done and out of breath. And that my friend will leave you with "THE RUSH"!! that we all crave, and it's what keeps us coming back.

It's actually the exact same procedure for a 1911, there's just not as much take up to deal with on a 1911. One of the neat things I find about shooting a Revolver is I don't feel so "Anxious" between targets. I can actually do something, start stroking the trigger.

Once you get used to "STROKING" the Trigger (it's kind of like petting a skittish kitty, if you're smooth and firm, she'll purr. If you're jerky or harsh she'll probably jerk away) then you can worry about the difficult stuff. Like learning to "RELAX" to get that .20 split with 2-A's, instead of trying to muscle the gun and trigger getting a .25 down 3 points.

Just keep looking for the the Rush.

Hey, Mike !CONGRATULATIONS! on the Area 5 win. Looked like a squeeker between you and Master Walsh.

[Steelshooter3]

Excellent feedback and ideas! Appreciate everyone's responses even from a person who would shoot one of those evil, black Tupperware pistols . I agree with the SMOOTH concept and try to incorporate into my shooting. Not always successful or fast but love the feeling when you have a clean run with no misses.

Thanks again!

[Carmoney]

Once you get used to "STROKING" the Trigger (it's kind of like petting a skittish kitty, if you're smooth and firm, she'll purr.  If you're jerky or harsh she'll probably jerk away)

Dave, excellent advice that applies in so many different situations that life presents us with.....

Mike

(hold off on the congrats just yet.....it was a squeaker but there was at least one scoring error we still have to figure out)

[pskys2]

Yea, right Mike. The scoring error is more of a Stats error I'll bet. They need to change that class "A" to "M".

I have noticed your Bowling Pin experience really pays off on Plate Racks and such. When you hand it to Jerry M. at a Nationals Event, it's pretty impressive.

Good Luck at the Fall Classic.

[Carmoney]

(See new thread regarding Area 5 -- Cliff did win.)

Now Dave, as much as I appreciate the compliment, I only handed it to Jerry on one little tiny stage at Nationals. However, I stated ahead of time I was going to do so--kinda like when Babe Ruth pointed out the spot where he was going to hit it over the outfield wall....

[pskys2]

OH! LORD! and NOW the LEGEND starts to grow!

Did you actually say it to Jerry, or just some of the guys on your squad? If you said it to Jerry, he probably would have been Rooting For YOU!

I can still hear him at the 2004 Area 3, they had a Texas Star set up to spin really FAAAAST, and you could only shoot it thru a port on the bottom. Open guys were taking double digit times.

Well I got 4 of 5 and the last whizzed by the port like a just weaned steer towards a corn field. I was standing there waiting, counting in my head 1001, 1002 then I hear a Louisiana Drawl behind me mutter "LEAVE IT, LEAVE IT!". Well who am I to argue with greatness. Ended up being 4th Ltd 10 on it, one of my best stages, even with a "Mike".

Man, I have GOT to start hitting more of the matches you go to.

[wide45]

I never had much speed with the revolver. I did learn early; if I didn't start the trigger yesterday, it wouldn't go off 'till tomorrow. Waiting for the sights on center the target was a poor use of time.

[Carmoney]

Dave, what can I tell you. I knew I was going to win that stage. Guess it was just a zen thing.

(I told Cliff, not sure who else heard me say it.)

[pskys2]

Way Cool! Gotta Luv the ZEN! It's like a premonition of the "RUSH".

Hey any word on the IA SS Classic?

Kind of the last minute thinking of going, sent an email to the listed sight but nothing back yet. Do you know if they take walk ons?

Dave

[Carmoney]

Way Cool!  Gotta Luv the ZEN!  It's like a premonition of the "RUSH".

Hey any word on the IA SS Classic?

Kind of the last minute thinking of going, sent an email to the listed sight but nothing back yet.  Do you know if they take walk ons?

Dave

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dave, check your PMs.