jrdoran Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Edited October 17, 2019 by jrdoran typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdoran Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Quote The new Steel Challenge classification system was introduced in July of 2016. In 2016, USPSA’s Steel Challenge Shooting Association announced that reviews of Peak Stage Times (PST), which are used for classification, would be performed on a periodic basis. In 2019, the frequency was set as annually, between the end of the Steel Challenge World Speed Shooting Championship, and the end of the calendar year. Periodic reviews of Steel Challenge PST’s often result in changes to scores required to attain each level of classification. All existing scores/classifications remain unchanged due to any PST adjustments, and classifications can only improve. This is often referred to as ratcheting-up. The last PST changes occurred January 1, 2019 and February 1, 2017. After the 2019 SCSA World Speed Shooting Championship, USPSA President Mike Foley, SCSA National Program Coordinator Zack Jones, and Jeff Jones, an experienced Match Director and avid competitor, reviewed all stage times from the larger tier 2 and 3 matches, including the last two World Speed Shooting Championships. The times were compared to the current PST’s to determine if any adjustments should be made. The review team attempted to initiate a gradual change in 2018, instead of moving directly to much higher PST’s, but the performance in some divisions is improving at a rate that exceeds the last two adjustments. PST’s were not adjusting fast enough to catch up with the true average peak times. A balance must be achieved between creating falsely high classifications with insignificant adjustments, and disenfranchising competitors with adjustments that are too aggressive. Initial PST analysis for 2019 indicated a change from 6 to 12 seconds for some divisions. After review of the analysis, the changes will be 5.5 seconds for Rimfire Rifle Iron Division (RFRI), 4 seconds for Rimfire Rifle Open (RFRO) and Pistol Caliber Carbine Open Divisions (PCCO), and 3 seconds for Pistol Caliber Carbine Iron Division (PCCI). No adjustments are more than 1 second for any stage in any division, and range between .06 and .25 seconds per string. On Wednesday, January 1, 2020, USPSA’s Steel Challenge Shooting Association will implement new Peak Stage Times for these divisions as follows, with no changes to other divisions: Edited October 17, 2019 by jrdoran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdoran Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 https://www.facebook.com/SteelChallenge/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nso123 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 This just means we will have to put in a little more time at the range. The lower times are being shot, so it leaves a real gap between GM and a competitive GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I had made it a goal of mine to make GM before the end of the year and I'm going to have shoulder surgery in 1 1/2 weeks that will take me out for the rest of the year so I was going to push a little this weekend to make it over the line. My current 93.91% will become 88.69% in January. I don't really want a GM title to go with a master score, this kind of messes with the goal setting if you want it to mean something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR_James Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Seems appropriate that some of the divisions peak times needed to be adjusted. It would be interesting to see how the peak times are calculated. Seeing as how there has been a significant change over the last two years in many of the divisions, both sides of the equation need to be adjusted to maintain balance. If you compete under the new peak times in 2020, I think you should be reclassified. For example, in 2018 RFRI peak time was 83.00. In 2020 it will be 74.00. So, if you were a 100% GM just two years ago, those same times in 2020 would have you at 89% which is a middle "M" class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xpierrat Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 9 hours ago, Gregg K said: I had made it a goal of mine to make GM before the end of the year and I'm going to have shoulder surgery in 1 1/2 weeks that will take me out for the rest of the year so I was going to push a little this weekend to make it over the line. My current 93.91% will become 88.69% in January. I don't really want a GM title to go with a master score, this kind of messes with the goal setting if you want it to mean something. Gregg best of luck with the surgery While goal setting is good and almost necessary to improve , ones major goal should be to shoot a match to the best of ones ability …. ie within a second or so of ones classified times which means consistency I would love to be recognized as a GM if I could shoot those times.... at 72 my chances of doing that are slim ( and just got slimmer ) I struggle hard to shoot Master times and have never shot a match within 6 or 7 seconds of my total classified time. Something I see most top GMs do at major matches My Goal is to win in my age group ( super Sr ) and shoot close to my personal Peak time. Here's hoping your surgery is a success (and helps you find that next 10th or two for improvement). And for the record I believe ones classification should be redone at the end of the year with any new peak times. with some safe guards for sandbagging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 2 hours ago, xpierrat said: And for the record I believe ones classification should be redone at the end of the year with any new peak times. with some safe guards for sandbagging In most cases I never used to think that you should be able to go down but as fast as the rifle times are dropping I'm starting to think along the same thing as you stated. If you just made GM a few years back you would end up an A class shooter in 2020 and that's just not right. I will still try to constantly improve and try to shoot to the absolute best of my abilities but I don't want to have a title that I'm not qualified for. I guess we will have to put an asterisk next to our classifications, GM*2017, GM*2018, GM*2019, GM*2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbrarian Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 6 hours ago, Gregg K said: In most cases I never used to think that you should be able to go down but as fast as the rifle times are dropping I'm starting to think along the same thing as you stated. If you just made GM a few years back you would end up an A class shooter in 2020 and that's just not right. It really just makes it meaningless. I look at results and see A class shooters shooting B & C class times. The difference? They were classified years ago. I guess they get to brag about their class, and make excuse for their current scores. The discrepancy will only get worse as PST's go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornetx40 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Everyone should be reclassified each time the PST's are changed. Otherwise the classification system becomes meaningless with people in classes they no longer have the ability to shoot in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stango424 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 It's definitely nice to see the times get lower, for some reason there seems to be a lot of people bent out of shape about it. Scsa classifications are relatively new still so it only makes sense for the classifications to progress as we get larger sample sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 In USPSA your percentage floats with your performance on the classifiers. SCSA is like shooting 8 100% classifiers in USPSA that never fall off. SCSA fixes each stage percentage on the best you have ever done in your life. We already tend to be over classed as it is without dropping the PST. Until the times in these newer division stabilize I really think the classifications need to change when PST changes. There would be a few get their feelings hurt if they dropped from GM to something lower but their ego would just have to get over it. it's pointless to have the title without the performance to go with it. No incentive for someone that just barely made it into GM from a few years back attending a tier II or III match if the 2020 classified A class shooters are going to whip up on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR_James Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 11 hours ago, Gregg K said: I will still try to constantly improve and try to shoot to the absolute best of my abilities but I don't want to have a title that I'm not qualified for. I guess we will have to put an asterisk next to our classifications, GM*2017, GM*2018, GM*2019, GM*2020 Agreed. I like the idea of the asterisk. I was able to make RFRI GM in 2018. Then re-earned it in 2019 after the peak times changed. Looks like I will need to up my game to re-earn it again in 2020. New goal may be to see how many times I can re-earn the classification. RFRI GM*2018 RFRI GM*2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 26 minutes ago, AR_James said: Agreed. I like the idea of the asterisk. I was able to make RFRI GM in 2018. Then re-earned it in 2019 after the peak times changed. Looks like I will need to up my game to re-earn it again in 2020. New goal may be to see how many times I can re-earn the classification. RFRI GM*2018 RFRI GM*2019 Looking forward to seeing you add RFRI GM*2020 and congratulations on having eyes good enough to still see irons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR_James Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 13 minutes ago, Gregg K said: Looking forward to seeing you add RFRI GM*2020 and congratulations on having eyes good enough to still see irons Thanks Gregg. Fiber optic, bright daylight, front sight more than an arms length away, and shooting glasses that only correct for distance vision. I still know I am losing time to the folks with better eyes due to the delay as my eyes refocus from the target to the sight, but I do the best I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Compounding the issue is that a classification as high as GM can be achieved by only shooting 3-4 of the classifiers over and over. Under the current system, permanent classifications are assigned to shooters that have never seen or shot Outer Limits or Speed Option due to range constraints or perhaps never shot Pendulum. I personally would prefer that my own classification be adjusted if/when SC Directors adjust peak times and that my own classification be adjusted throughout the year based on my current actual performance. My guess is that the majority will see their real percentages drop in 2020, especially in the popular PCC and RFR divisions. I know mine will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xpierrat Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Also keep in mind as some us get old OLD your times are going to at some point suffer and a reclassification would be warranted. I think we need a distinguished Super Sr class LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 hours ago, xpierrat said: Also keep in mind as some us get old OLD your times are going to at some point suffer and a reclassification would be warranted. I think we need a distinguished Super Sr class LOL When is "OLD"? I have to keep changing my definition of that, I can remember when I thought that meant that you were 30. I made a last stab at GM before my upcoming shoulder surgery and made it today with 98.67%. That will hold till Jan 1 and then it will become 93.19%. After I get recovered and back to shooting again I will need to shave off another 1.5 seconds to re-earn it again. New goal in place even if it's a small one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xpierrat Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 32 minutes ago, Gregg K said: When is "OLD"? I have to keep changing my definition of that, I can remember when I thought that meant that you were 30. I made a last stab at GM before my upcoming shoulder surgery and made it today with 98.67%. That will hold till Jan 1 and then it will become 93.19%. After I get recovered and back to shooting again I will need to shave off another 1.5 seconds to re-earn it again. New goal in place even if it's a small one. Good Job! Best of luck on the shoulder... and the new goal.... Wife had knee surgery Friday so I am on honey do duty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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