ShooterSteve Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 We were at a 3gun match in Fayetteville NC this weekend and had a good time. A few of the guys there were shooting a 223 made by HK that looks just like an AR-15. These little guns were wicked bad, and I was wondering if anyone knows if HK is going to make a civillian version of them and the cost? Yea I know it will be high, but when you are blinded by love, sometimes you gotta pay!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 The HK 93 that made a while back was awesome. But I always prefer'd the HK 91, I just like them bigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek45 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 (edited) http://www.hkdefense.us/pages/military-le/...ines/hk416.html . . .copied & pasted.... THE HK416 SYSTEM Inspired by the resounding success of the mid-life improvement program of the British SA80 (L85/L86) Weapons System, Heckler & Koch began a development program to create the HK416 Enhanced Carbine. Working with current users from around the globe, HK set out to produce an Enhanced Carbine that would outperform competing 5.56mm carbines and provide the high degree of performance required by the user community, particularly those within the special operations arena who demand more and expect no compromise when lives are at stake. High-speed video assessment and extensive live-fire testing in extreme operational environments such as the U.S. Army Desert Proving Ground in Yuma, Arizona revealed multiple areas for improvement of the 5.56 mm carbine. Improvements were made to the internal operating system and miscellaneous component parts to improve reliability in best and worse case scenarios, with all types of ammunition, with all barrel lengths and with and without sound suppressors attached. An innovative free-floating 4-quadrant rail system designed by HK allows all current standard accessories and sights to be fitted to the HK416 and can be removed without tools. The HK-proprietary gas system does not introduce propellant gases and the associated carbon fouling back into the weapon’s interior. This reduces operator cleaning time, increases the reliability of the weapon and extends the interval between stoppages. To improve reliability, service life, and operator safety during obstructed bore occurrences or after extreme extended firing sessions, HK has produced its famous cold hammer forged barrel for the HK416 in various lengths to include 10, 14.5, 16.5, and 20 inches. The highest quality steel is used in this unique manufacturing process producing a barrel that provides superior accuracy for greater than 20,000 rounds with minimal degradation of accuracy and muzzle velocity. In addition to the improvements in the baseline weapon, HK has produced a high reliability magazine and a proprietary buffer to improve functional reliability. An add-on single shot 40 x 46mm AG416 enhanced grenade launcher module can be quickly attached to the rail system of all models without tools. Heckler & Koch has applied its proven and fielded Safety Blank Firing Attachment and Live Round Excluder Magazine technology to the HK416 Carbine, eliminating the possibility of live rounds being loaded into and fired through a standard issue weapon outfitted for blank firing only. A “drop-in” HK416 upper receiver module and a complete carbine are both being offered with deliveries beginning in February 2005. The full potential of the 5.56mm carbine has now been realized with the introduction of the HK416. Unique Features: • Short-stroke piston gas system-- --Improved reliability --100% function --No fouling directed into weapon --Less cleaning --User removable/exchangeable components --Insensitive to barrel length or ammunition changes • Improved buffer system • Improved steel magazine: --Improved feeding reliability, durability, service life • Refined barrel/bolt locking recesses/lugs: --Improved function • Improved extractor and spring, buffer: --Improved function • Enhanced AG-C add-on 40mm grenade launcher • HK cold-hammer forged barrel --Extended service life --Improved accuracy and user safety • HK free-floating modular rail system Additional ongoing work: • Improved surface finish, ambidextrous controls • Safety Blank Firing Adapter and live round excluder magazine • Integrated reflex sight with nested IR laser aimer and illuminator Edited September 19, 2005 by Derek45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 And the price is......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Unlikely to be sold to ordinary folks like us (civilians). A few slipped out & that will be the end of it according to ar15.com Too bad too. Mags are out there; I bough 2 at $50 a pop. They work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 If you want a piston driven AR check out Dsarms.com and pof-usa.com for the POF setup. I've seen a few at Rio Salado and I think they have great potential as a 3 gun rifle. I suspect the piston driven guns have less "bounce" than similarly sized direct blowback ARs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted September 20, 2005 Author Share Posted September 20, 2005 Hey Derek 45, that is the one, and I want one, but it sounds like I'll be wanting one for a while. The boys shooting those could shoot as good as the gun looks. Yea that's it, my scores would go up dramatically due to the cool factor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 A buddy of mine who is a military type got to play with one and asked the HK rep when he could get one, something like a cold day in hell was the reply. I guess HK has no plans (according to what the rep "supposedly" said) to sell them to regular folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Smith Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 There's also the Leitner-Wise conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 There are reliability advantages here since the piston keeps the soot/hot gas out at the gas block instead of dumping it in the carrier and receiver (Garand, M1A and AK do it the same way). Other advantages? -longlife, super hard hammer forged HK barrel. THese things last. -buffer/spring designed to minimize "bounce" What about "secondary vibrations" and accuracy? Look at the Armalite web site; the bullet is out of the barrel before the piston moves at all on a: M1A, Garand, AK or the new AR/HK416. This thing would be JUST as accurate as any traditional gas operated AR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Smith Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 The one POF upper at the Tactical Response carbine class was having trouble throughout both days, while the vast majority of the regular AR15's ran fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted September 20, 2005 Author Share Posted September 20, 2005 Yes those Hks are accurate, one of the guys reported 1moa at 200 yds with them during testing. I don't know what kind of optics were used. The match was won with one of these sporting an EOTech. And I do know it was the guy running the gun that won the match, and not the gun itself, but they were just way cool. It should be against the law to show a man a gun he can't have. It just ain't right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanLock Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Lots of cool points LOTS and LOTS....!!!!! I thought the POF ar's looked the business, but this HK thing is off the chain. Cool V.Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racine Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Cost approx. $2000 for upper and right now word is HK is trying to buy back the few that ended up in non-LEO hands. Racine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Cost approx. $2000 for upper and right now word is HK is trying to buy back the few that ended up in non-LEO hands. Racine <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can anyone explain why HK is so hell bend on keeping these uppers out of 'civilian' hands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FayettevilleFatKid Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Not to rain on the parade but the guy that won the match was shooting a JP rifle... I was one of the stage RO's and that is what he ran on my stage at least...there was at least one HK 416 there and it was muy cool though. According to the guy with the 416, HK will only sell to military or fed le, no local or state le or individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 (edited) Not to rain on the parade but the guy that won the match was shooting a JP rifle... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...And we (civies) can BUY the JP rifles much cheaper than the unobtainium HK Edited September 20, 2005 by PacMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 AND furthermore, IMHO a well tricked out JP makes that HK look like a TEC 9 in comparison lookswise ;-) The CTR-02 is a real thing of beauty and a real mean mutha all rolled into one. Give me a JP any day, even at twice the exhorbitant price that HK runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3GunF1Guy Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Wouldn't it be cool not to have the bolt and carrier not get covered by hot gases and carbon all the time. All I want is the 20,000 rnd barrel and the ultra cool gas system on my JP! I'll bet that is why HK does not want the gun in civilian hands. Someone will copy the gas system and start selling it for 1/4 the price. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 I'll bet that is why HK does not want the gun in civilian hands. Someone will copy the gas system and start selling it for 1/4 the price.Scott <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And we have a Winner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Smith Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 One reason the HK uppers cannot end up in civ hands is because the End User Cert for the batch approved for import was MIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 I have a bunch of JP stuff, won't catch me with an HK until they donate something to a prize table. Ditto for Colt. There's nothing wrong with a company focusing on Mil/LE sales to the exclusion of marketing to peons who buy guns one at a time. There's also nothing wrong with the peons showing some support for companies that aren't too big for their britches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek45 Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 The gas tube may be dirty, but it's also less reciprocating mass. Colt experimented with piston uppers decades ago and found no improvement in reliability. I'd like to see the pentagon spend less time schmoozing with The European gun manufactures and more time looking into the 6.8mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 I also agree that the carbon blown into the bolt isn't a big an issue for functioning. Nowhere near as big a problem as the crud that accumulates in a chamber. No gas insulating system will help with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 (edited) Getting a little off topic here, but: John wrote: "I have a bunch of JP stuff, won't catch me with an HK until they donate something to a prize table. Ditto for Colt.There's nothing wrong with a company focusing on Mil/LE sales to the exclusion of marketing to peons who buy guns one at a time. There's also nothing wrong with the peons showing some support for companies that aren't too big for their britches." The more I think about what John wrote, the more I AGREE. If we want payback from the industry, let's make sure we are offering them something in return. Such as? Such as loyalty. On another post, I discovered that Kimber has snubbed both USPSA and IDPA requests for prize support. Don't want to run afoul of forum rules, but I would rather spend my money on a quality gun from a USPSA Gold Sponsor like STI or SV (besides, their 1911s are better anyway). I also appreciate DPMS sponsoring a whole 3 gun match. Ever see any sort of HK rifle at a 3 gun? (I mean a real HK, not a CETME or US clone). Sell me a US made G36 or an upper for 416 and sponsor a match and I might change my tune. Until then, JP & DPMS can count on my business. How about you? Regards, D.C. Johnson (moderator - feel free to split this off into another thread if appropriate) Edited February 28, 2006 by Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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