Joint Pain

[SteveZ]

I've noticed that ever since I started practicing more, I'm starting to develop joint pain in my right elbow and right wrist.  There's a chance that his may be related to playing softball but I seem to recall it started happening right about the same time that I increased my shooting practice before AREA 1.

Is there anything that one can do/take to elmininate joint pain (besides ibuprophen?).  I'm guessing that the recoil is beginning to hammer the joints in my right arm.  Strangely, I'm shooting isoceles and only the right side has pain and yes, I'm a right handed shooter.

[bonedaddy]

Steve, it could be possible that you are experiencing pain because of the way you are applying your grip.  I've found that it is not necessary for me to have tension in the large forearm muscles to have a good grip, but it is very easy to get tense there and not really be aware of it.  It is also possible that in practicing more often, and more intensely, that tension has crept in.   A friend my be able to detect excess tension for you by feeling your forearms before and after you assume the shooting stance and grip.  If recoil were being absorbed solely by your wrists and forearms, and not dissipated by the rest of your body mass, I believe it could very likely be a cause of joint pain.   As for pain remedies, alfalfa tablets, available in most heath food stores, seem to help my old injuries.  Try them and see if it helps you, but swallow them whole.  If you chew them up, you guessed it, you get a mouth full of hay!

Get well soon -- Sam

[ErikW]

I have a huge tendonitis (tennis elbow) problem from playing softball, aggravated by shooting. In the softball off-season it occasionally pops up when shooting Open, or when shooting a lot of Limited. It popped up the second day of Area 1. I also get a different kind of problem in the elbow when dry-firing a lot of draws.

Ice and Ibuprofen have been my only remedies.

[Ron Ankeny]

I wasn't going to comment, but what the heck...I am an expert on screwed up joints.

I have some bone chips in my right elbow and it has been "surgically altered". I also get real bad tendonitis in my right elbow. Those problems are compounded by a killer case of good old arthritis in both hands and wrists. I don't even want to talk about all of the staples in my left shoulder. Too damn many motorcycles and horses in my misspent youth. Pain sucks and getting old is the pits. I am only 45.

First off, go see a doctor and maybe an orthopedic surgeon if your problem get worse. A proper diagnosis will go a long way. If the problem is tendonitis then just suck it up and wait a couple of years. It might go away, but you will have it off and on (hopefully more off than on) for what will seem like forever. I get cortisone injections a couple of times a year, but don't over do it. There are some darn good non-steroid anti-inflammatory drugs on the market (NSAID) that help with general joint pain. I use Toradol (Ketorolac is the generic) and it's pretty good. On the down side, this drug will kill your liver so I only use it when the pain is so severe that it wakes me up at night. In fact, the yard stick most doctors use for measuring joint pain is that if it doesn't wake you up at night from a deep sleep then you are better off to stay the heck away from drugs altogether.

If the wrist pain (or for that matter the elbow) is from arthritis one of the newer drugs could be your magic bullet. I am using Celebrex and it's pretty good.

On the bright side, chronic pain will eventually become a part of your every day life and you will get used to it. I have gone to matches when I needed to do stretching exercises with my hands just to get and maintain a proper grip. If you get your head in the right place, the aches and pains will not even be noticeable while you are performing. Maybe Brian can give us some reading sources on how to deal with pain by using the space between the ears.

On the comic side, I was shooting a classifier just yesterday that required the shooter to start with their hands on a barricade with the palms flat (two X's marked the spot). I had to squat down to get my palms on the barricade because of the loss of mobility in my wrists. The RO was a lady in her 60's and she asked if I had arthritis and I told her I did. She asked if I had tried Celebrex and I told her yes...you could here the young pups in the peanut gallery laughing...

[benos]

Please unerstand that I'm not recommending this, but this is what I did some years ago. I had massive "tennis elbow,"  first in my right arm and then in my left. I tried everything available at the time, nothing helped. And I do mean everything. Finally, pissed-off, I started going to the gym everyday and doing a series of exercises, all of which made my elbows REALLY hurt. Reverse curls, reverse wrist curls, etc. But, I got better, eventually I had no pain at all. When I reported this to a doctor, he said that this was not unusual - many resond well to comletely different methods of treatment, including heavy excercise. I later learned that building up the stregth in the elbow area helps keep the tendon pushed into place and therefore it doesn't hurt as much.

In my later years the pain came back somewhat, although nothing like it used to be. (At one point I could barely lift a glass of water off the table.) I didn't excercise that much because i could deal with it  and at that time I didn't live near anything, much less a gym. I did try some of the modern day miracle stuff you can buy in every health food store, espcially if they cater to ol folks. It's called  Glucosamine Sulfate or something close. It did help, after ahwile, but it was not a miracle for me like I heard it was for others. I know they have made some changes in that stuff over the last couple years,  so you'll have to see what is the current hot ticket. Also, FWIW, I know my mom uses it and it helps with her arthritis.

be

[Flexmoney]

Head up to GNC.  There are a few products out that should provide some relief.  I think they take a while to work though (a few weeks).  I am pretty sure EAS makes a product, Knox also comes to mind.  I would trust either of those two names.

[Bill]

Celebrex, good stuff. I also use Glucosamine & Chondroitin. I think they help. I also get the occasional cortizone shot.

My wife & I were both having pain in our elbows after long practice sessions with Major .45's. We both switched to 9mm Minor (we shoot IDPA) and the pain went away.

Bill Nesbitt

[IPSC Supercop]

Basically, I tried what Brian did. Not on his recomendation, but a couple of years ago. When I began to dry fire a lot or have longer practice sessions over 4 months time or longer, I would start getting tendinitis and have the pain everyone is experiencing. I got it in my weak elbow (left) and casually asked the Dr when I was there for a physical.

He gave me a sheet with several exercises on it that gave directions and showed diagrams of the exercises. This sheet was made by a sports clinic and was designed by a sports medicine doctor specifically for tendinitis in the elbows. It says that increasing the strength and muscle in your forearm, bicep, tricep, elbow area will pretty much eliminate the problem.

Now, when I dry fire or practice, I use the tennis elbow "arm band" or "wrap". When I shoot the matches, I don't use anything, but then it feels perfect with no pain because I have used the "arm band" for everything else to keep the tendinitis away and only shooting matches once a week doesn't bother it, but dry firing or practicing once a day did.

If anyone is interested in the exercises, I'll try and describe them.

[cpty1]

I'm another believer in exercise to eliminate certain types of joint pain.  Ten years ago I started having pains in my right elbow.  Couldn't sleep at night, the whole works.  Turned out to be a very prominent bone spur.  Initially, the MD prescribed medications and finally a series of cortisone shots over a period of two or three years.  The shots worked for a while at first but then stopped working completely.  The MD finally sends me to a sports medicine doc who prescribes physical therapy and a series of other exercises to do at home.  I'm thinking, what a bunch of crap.  I went into these sessions skeptical to say the very least.  Suprisingly, in a few months, the pain was gone.  Even all these years later....if I lay off the curls, reverse curls, and tricep extensions for a couple of weeks, I feel that little tingle that reminds me to get back with the program.  This approach may not work for everyone depending on their problem, but it worked wonders for me.

[2alpha]

I had pain in my right elbow also and discovered that a lot of it was being caused by the marathon reloading sessions I used to do.  I just limited my reloading sessions to 1 hr each time and that helped a bunch. I also went to a lighter gun and that helped too.  All the medications have bad side affects so I think if you can modify your behavior you much better off.

JJ

[et45]

Well I guess I can join the ranks of the Tennis Elbow sufferers.About 2 weeks ago I had this severe pain in the side of the right elbow.It was just today that I was able to get a doctors appointment.Like some of you have posted he gave me a cortisone shot and a list of exersizes to do and a band to wear.I am sure this was brought on by the type of work I do(brick and block laying).So far it has not hurt my shooting.I just hope it doesn't last too long.

[SteveZ]

Well just to check in on where I'm at on this....finally went to the Dr because the pain was getting worse.  I was also diagnosed as having Tennis Elbow and was told there are three steps 1) Wear the arm band for 4-6 weeks and if that doesn't work 2) physical therapy where they "scrape the tendons" which apparently is really painful but is supposed to work well..but if that doesn't work 3) cortizone shot to the elbow (which he said they don't like to do).

Well I've been wearing the arm band for 4 weeks now (not using my right arm for anything i.e. no shooting, no lifting ... he said not to try any exercises until the arm is healed) and ..... my arm hurts worse then it did 4 weeks ago.  I'm in constant pain now rather then only when I did stuff.  

I'm going to see about getting a referal to an orthopedic doctor (someone who knows what their dealing with) and go from there.

[ErikW]

Maybe you need to get even more specialized, with a sports medicine specialist.

[SteveZ]

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Quote: from Erik Warren on 2:15 pm on Dec. 10, 2001

Maybe you need to get even more specialized, with a sports medicine specialist.

---

That was suggested by my sister when I saw her at Thanksgiving (she was diagnosed with the same thing....she doesn't shoot however....at least not that I know :-) and got the cortizone shot by her Dr.

What kinda torqed me off is that my doctor didn't even bother x-raying or doing a MRI to take sure it wasn't anything else...he just said "Tennis Elbow wear this arm band and it should get better".  I figured he knew what he was talking about.....it's not getting any better.

[Flexmoney]

welcome to the "practice" of medicine.

[et45]

FWIW guys the doctor I saw today was a orthopedic surgeon who is with the local sports medicine group.If your insurance will allow it(some companys make you get a referral)I would suggest going straight to a orthopedic doctor.I got the full treatment(x-rays,cortisone shot,list of exersises and arm band.Also they told me to be aggresive with the exersises, not so much with a lot of weight but to do them twice a day.BTW,My elbow is sore as hell from the shot.

[Guest bulm5]

Icing  your elbow and wrist  after each shooting session  is not a bad idea either.

[shred]

Exercise is definately called for in some tendonitis cases.  I'm lucky enough to have a good orthopedist that doesn't believe in 'slap in a cortisone shot and see if it helps', unlike 1/2 the docs out there.

Many times building up the appropriate muscles will 'lift' the irritated tendons out of the bone track they've been rubbing on.

When something hurts, we generally stop using it.  In these cases, it's better to keep active with it or you get into a cycle of 'it hurts, stop using it, (time passes, muscles get smaller), it hurts.."

I learned this rock climbing-- you can build up a cranking set of pull and gripping muscles, but if you don't do some push and reverse excercises, you're going to hurt.

[Bill Schwab]

shred,

I currently am in a wrist brace because of teninitis...can you elaborate on the exercises you can do to help alleviate it?  I did an internet search but wasn't able to find anything useful.

Bill

[bountyhunter]

I notice my wrist and elbow pain gets worse when my wife is out of town for a week.   Seriously, CELEBREX is a new anti-inflammatory that doesn't have the prolonged bleeding/ulcer side effects of all the other similar drugs.  Works pretty good.

BTW:  studies have shown excercise is the best treatment for all types of arthritis including rheumatoid.  Even if it hurts to move, it's "move it or lose it".  Joint problems are accelerated when the muscles  around the joint get weaker.

Best excercise is keep moving and use light weights if you can.  Walking and moving in a swimming pool is excellent as it lets you take the weight load off the joints and still move all the muscles.

[SteveZ]

Well just a short follow up on where I'm at on this. Went to my primary doctor on Tuesday.  He was at a loss as to why I didn't get any better.  Refered me to physical therapy.

Today was my first visit.  Yes I've got tendonitis...I've also got scaring from attempting to "shoot through" the pain...Ok, it may not have all been shooting (softball, motorcycle riding, etc) but basically the cycle goes like this...damage tendon, body buids up scar tissue to heal...damage tendon again...more scar tissue...repeat about 20 times.

So now what they have to do is to break down the scar tissue and then reheal the tendon's while stretching them (so the heal properly this time).  They worked on my elbow/tendon's today and my arm's in some pain. Next week I've got 3 sessions where they're really going to rip into it.  Sounds like I'll be out of commission until about February or March according to the therapist as far as "activities" go....the nice thing was the guy didn't freak out when I told him that I probably go this from shooting...infact he seemed somewhat interested in it. :-)

So, if you've started to see the onset of tendonitis...get it looked at quick.  If I had back in May when this started, I quite possibly may have been better off today.

[bird]

Can anyone list specific exercises, weight used, reps etc to help with joint pain.

Since I went from a casual shooter to an addicted IPSC shooter I am getting the wrist, elbow and shoulder pain.

I have been doing some reverse curls, tricep extensions but I have no real program.

I do use wraps and joint ritus when I dry-fire practice which does help.

Non-activity is NOT an option...LOL

Thanks for any help you can give