FALer Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) Hey folks, I'm looking for a recommendation of a starting load, for suppressor use (Obsidian 45) with a CZ P09 that has a short throat. 124gr RMR round nose BE 86 or W231 powder, (I also have Titegroup) 1.125" OAL CCI #500 SPP Brass can be anything, I have at least some of most brands. I've got recommendations on good mid range to near max loads with BE 86, I'm just not sure where to start on the lower end. I don't have a chronograph. Thanks in advance, Nate Edited September 5, 2019 by FALer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Without a chrono you are pretty much SOL, BE 86 is kinda slow, I dont imagine it would do that well reduced that much. TG is more tolerant to low volume , As a fairly fast but bulkier powder I suspect 231 would hold accuracy best at lower velocity. But really without a chrono you are just guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMP Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I have used BE86 for some accurate but faster target loads in my P09 with RMR 115 and 124g bullets, but its not the powder for lower power stuff. W231 is much more in line with that, although I use Sport Pistol which is roughly between W231 and Titegroup. You would probably be better off working with 147g bullets and light charges of Titegroup for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George16 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) I used W231 with the RMR until I switched to sport pistol at the beginning of this year. Heres the chrono on my load of 4.1 W231, RMR 124 FMJ RN @ 1.125-1.128” OAL, WSPP 1073 1080 1055 1068 1074 1075 1058 1080 1070 1063 AVE - 1069 SD - 8 ES - 25 PF - 132.55 Edited September 5, 2019 by George16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FALer Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) Thanks for the responses folks, I've got what I feel is a good soft shooting suppressor load for RMR 147 grain match winners with titegroup. unfortunately I'd have to load those bullets at 1.09" OAL in my CZpo9. The bullet manufacturer recommends 1.13" OAL and I'm new enough at this to not go against manuf. recommendations. Gotta take the kids to school. Edited September 6, 2019 by FALer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) Easy. 3.8gr titegroup, 1.100” OAL or longer, 124 gr coated bullet. Load to the longer end of what chambers in your gun. Solid well known load, runs around 125-130 pf and is very much subsonic. You’ll see minimal velocity differences between 1.100” and 1.130” with that load, just a few FPS. Consider getting the barrel cut to let you load longer, too. I did all of my Walthers and can feed them even the grumpiest 147 out to 1.145” now. Edited September 5, 2019 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMP Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 2 hours ago, FALer said: Thanks for the responses folks, I've got what I feel is a good soft shooting suppressor load for RMR 147 grain match winners with titegroup. unfortunately I have to load those bullets at 1.09" OAL in my CZpo9. The bullet manufacturer recommends 1.13" OAL and I'm mew enough at this to not go against manuf. recommendations. Gotta take the kids to school. There is a new profile in 115, 125, and 147 just out from Precision Bullets. I have some 125s and 147s on the way to try. The claim is much easier loading longer for guns like CZs. I have loaded a lot of RMR Match Winners and yes they need to be short. The RNs are more forgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yondering Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 If you're loading for suppressor use, you're probably interested in finding a quiet load, which is another variable on top of the usual stuff about accuracy and soft recoil. Also, the "soft recoil" bit pretty much goes out the window when we're using a suppressor with a booster on it; the small differences in recoil between one powder and another are mostly overpowered by the booster. With that in mind, I don't like any of the above mentioned powders for suppressor use; they all produce a sharper sound. The quietest suppressor powders I've found are not the usual suspects for competition shooting. My personal favorite is Green Dot, closely followed by American Select and Universal. Any of those three will do what you need for a 124gr suppressed load, and will be quieter than something like Titegroup. Keep in mind too that your pistol and suppressor may or may not cycle with a subsonic 124gr load. A tighter barrel lockup has more trouble cycling. I've got one G19 barrel that will cycle 125gr coated subsonics, but another barrel in the same gun that is more accurate but will not cycle them, it needs at least a 135gr bullet to cycle and stay subsonic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FALer Posted September 6, 2019 Author Share Posted September 6, 2019 16 hours ago, Joe4d said: Without a chrono you are pretty much SOL, BE 86 is kinda slow, I dont imagine it would do that well reduced that much. TG is more tolerant to low volume , As a fairly fast but bulkier powder I suspect 231 would hold accuracy best at lower velocity. But really without a chrono you are just guessing. A chronograph is definitely on the short list of items to get. And BE-86 is out as a candidate for 124gr. subs. 13 hours ago, GMP said: I have used BE86 for some accurate but faster target loads in my P09 with RMR 115 and 124g bullets, but its not the powder for lower power stuff. W231 is much more in line with that, although I use Sport Pistol which is roughly between W231 and Titegroup. You would probably be better off working with 147g bullets and light charges of Titegroup for starters. I've got a few subsonic loads with Titegroup and 147gr bullets from 3.1gr to 3.4gr. they work great in my Glocks. I'll have to find a 147gr with an Ogive that my CZ like, or that can be loaded short. 13 hours ago, George16 said: I used W231 with the RMR until I switched to sport pistol at the beginning of this year. Heres the chrono on my load of 4.1 W231, RMR 124 FMJ RN @ 1.125-1.128” OAL, WSPP 1073 1080 1055 1068 1074 1075 1058 1080 1070 1063 AVE - 1069 SD - 8 ES - 25 I'll play with your w231 load above. I gotta get some sport pistol, but can't find it locally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FALer Posted September 6, 2019 Author Share Posted September 6, 2019 10 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said: Consider getting the barrel cut to let you load longer, too. I did all of my Walthers and can feed them even the grumpiest 147 out to 1.145” now. I will definitely get the barrel/throat/leade cut to allow it to chamber longer bullets. What's the right way to say what your proposing? "Reaming the throat"? And who is doing that work that you folks would recommend? 8 hours ago, GMP said: There is a new profile in 115, 125, and 147 just out from Precision Bullets. I have some 125s and 147s on the way to try. The claim is much easier loading longer for guns like CZs. I have loaded a lot of RMR Match Winners and yes they need to be short. The RNs are more forgiving. I'll have look at those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FALer Posted September 6, 2019 Author Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Yondering said: If you're loading for suppressor use, you're probably interested in finding a quiet load, which is another variable on top of the usual stuff about accuracy and soft recoil. Also, the "soft recoil" bit pretty much goes out the window when we're using a suppressor with a booster on it; the small differences in recoil between one powder and another are mostly overpowered by the booster. With that in mind, I don't like any of the above mentioned powders for suppressor use; they all produce a sharper sound. The quietest suppressor powders I've found are not the usual suspects for competition shooting. My personal favorite is Green Dot, closely followed by American Select and Universal. Any of those three will do what you need for a 124gr suppressed load, and will be quieter than something like Titegroup. Keep in mind too that your pistol and suppressor may or may not cycle with a subsonic 124gr load. A tighter barrel lockup has more trouble cycling. I've got one G19 barrel that will cycle 125gr coated subsonics, but another barrel in the same gun that is more accurate but will not cycle them, it needs at least a 135gr bullet to cycle and stay subsonic. I didn't even think about the cycling issue. I'll just get somebody to supersize the barrel so it'll take the biggies. Seriously what's the right way to say it? You've gotten my attention with better sounding powders, Bi mart has Green Dot, would it be a good choice for 147gr also. Are you talking about a lower tone? Edited September 6, 2019 by FALer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yondering Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Yes, a lower and flatter tone. It's hard to describe of course, but the sharpness of the tone makes a big difference. What we want is a dull "thwack" or "pffft" sound instead of a sharper snap. With some powders that are bad for suppressed sound (WSF is a good example), the sound level is still a suppressed shot, but can have such a sharp snap that it actually rings my ears a bit. For subsonic 9mm that's not acceptable at all IMO with a good suppressor; my quiet loads sound a lot like a kid's pellet gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yondering Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Figured I might as well post this pic here for discussion as well. The bullets in the pic are all lined up with the case mouth as they are normally seated when loaded, and the weights of each marked above. This demonstrates the difference in case capacity between different bullet designs, and shows that case capacity does not correlate very well to bullet weight even when the designs look somewhat similar. This is why a chrono and working up the correct charge weight for your bullet are so important. BTW all of these get coated except the two commercial bullets - the 147gr Aardvark and the 158gr Bear Creek. The rest are my own designs except the 135gr which is a modified Mihec 125gr mold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G19g26 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Will CFE PISTOL be good for a 124gr suppressed load? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHI Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 No it would be filthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 9mm: 124gr Xtreme RN: Win 231 4.25gr: Fed Case: OAL 1.145 Digital Link Para 1911 5" Temperature:75° F Pressure:30 in Hg Bullet Weight:124.0 Power Factor Average:131 Power Factor Low:130 Power Factor High:134 Number of Shots:10 Minimum:1052 Maximum:1083 Spread:31 Average:1061 Standard Deviation:10 Custom Attributes PowderWin 231 4.25gr CaseWin PrimerRem SPP BulletXtreme 124gr RN OAL1.145 GunPara 5" 1911 #VelocityFt/lbsPower FactorDate 10 1063 311.1013112/7/20 12:38 PM 9 1053 305.2713012/7/20 12:38 PM 8 1060 309.3413112/7/20 12:38 PM 7 1061 309.9313112/7/20 12:37 PM 6 1078 319.9413312/7/20 12:37 PM 5 1054 305.8513012/7/20 12:37 PM 4 1083 322.9113412/7/20 12:37 PM 3 1059 308.7613112/7/20 12:37 PM 2 1055 306.4313012/7/20 12:37 PM 1 1052 304.6913012/7/20 12:37 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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