Ejector Rejector

[Dan4147]

I posted in Tanfo but no one had new ideas.  I got the Gold Team 9mm running so nice..........then I put the RTS2 and IpscAlex mount on.  The brass is going up and forward into the bottom of the mount (see pic).  1 out of 20 bounces back into the chamber.  I have searched and tried every version of ejector length and angle (3 cages used so far, back to stock); extractor tune and spring (2 wasted now back to stock); recoil spring from 9 to 12; long slide spring 11; wet and dry; stock mag followers and Hennings.

 

Someone have a new direction to pursue?  Watching some of JJ's videos shooting the Tanfo and his brass goes out about 2:30 almost perpendicular to the gun.  It MUST be possible to stop this up and forward madness.  No, I don't want a 90 degree mount or different red dot.

 

Thanks guys and gals.

[jcc7x7]

Have you double checked that none of the mounting screws are sticking through the frame and catching the recoil spring slowing the slide down etc.

Is the mount rubbing the slide anywhere?

I was running 8lbs springs in my GT (9mm Major) and it ran 9 minor ammo also.

Had a standard C-more slide ride and mount (not a 90degree mount) 

[Dan4147]

1 hour ago, jcc7x7 said:

Have you double checked that none of the mounting screws are sticking through the frame and catching the recoil spring slowing the slide down etc.

Is the mount rubbing the slide anywhere?

I was running 8lbs springs in my GT (9mm Major) and it ran 9 minor ammo also.

Had a standard C-more slide ride and mount (not a 90degree mount) 

 

Yes the screws and slide are good. No interference. Slide will lock back on last round with stock mag even with 12 lb spring. I may try a 8 spring but I don’t see it will help this issue. Did your brass go to the side or forward?

[schaet]

I'm not familiar with the Tanfo platform, but have you tried shaping the ejector with a bit of a chamfer to direct the brass out? (I know you said you have tried every angle, but was unsure if this is what you meant)

 

Another place to look is possibly the extractor. Is it holding the brass tight and long enough? If it is worn it maybe losing it during extraction and therefore you're not getting a good ejection? 

 

 

[texasdawg]

Think of the ejector as what pushes the case out of the chamber area and the extractor as the pivot point. Shaping and shortening the ejector paw will cure your problem. Blacken a case and eject it out of the gun and start by seeing where it is hitting to shape the arc. Shorten it some(carefully) to delay the point at which it is ejected to get full slide speed to help you with the speed of ejection. Good luck,,,

[jcc7x7]

1 hour ago, Dan4147 said:

 

Yes the screws and slide are good. No interference. Slide will lock back on last round with stock mag even with 12 lb spring. I may try a 8 spring but I don’t see it will help this issue. Did your brass go to the side or forward?

Out the side at 4 oclock and very flat ejection out of the port

[Dan4147]

2 hours ago, jcc7x7 said:

Out the side at 4 oclock and very flat ejection out of the port

 

I wish. I even fired some removing the magazine to see it the loading bullets were somehow affecting ejection. Shell still hits the back of the mount. I put blue masking tape on the mount so it was easy to see where the shells hit. There must be something significant that I am missing, but I don’t see how. 

[Dan4147]

3 hours ago, schaet said:

I'm not familiar with the Tanfo platform, but have you tried shaping the ejector with a bit of a chamfer to direct the brass out? (I know you said you have tried every angle, but was unsure if this is what you meant)

 

Another place to look is possibly the extractor. Is it holding the brass tight and long enough? If it is worn it maybe losing it during extraction and therefore you're not getting a good ejection? 

 

 

 

Yes and yes. Believe me, I have spent hours filing and testing the ejector, which is pretty easy on a Tanfo. Just expensive. The extractor is what it is except for tension and travel which I have played with. Thanks though. 

[Dan4147]

3 hours ago, texasdawg said:

Think of the ejector as what pushes the case out of the chamber area and the extractor as the pivot point. Shaping and shortening the ejector paw will cure your problem. Blacken a case and eject it out of the gun and start by seeing where it is hitting to shape the arc. Shorten it some(carefully) to delay the point at which it is ejected to get full slide speed to help you with the speed of ejection. Good luck,,,

 

Texasdawg thank you. But, I have shortened one incrementally until useless and still had brass going right against the mount. I know, it doesn’t make sense to me either. Yes, the “good” ejections didn’t go as far. Fwiw I have good slide speed. 

 

When I rack it by hand as fast as I can it ejects perfect. Go figure. Do you think I should try removing more on the extractor stop, to get more pivot?  Does that make sense?  They’re not expensive. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Dan4147

[jpl]

You want the ejector shaped so that the top of the ejector hits the case before the bottom.  The picture of the ejector in this thread clearly shows the bottom of the ejector forward of the top.   That will drive the case up and not have it come out flat, to the right.

 

Also, look at the shape of the extractor hook.   A radius on the bottom will direct the case to flip up rather than to drive it out at 2:30 - 3:00 o'clock.

Edited September 3, 2019 by jpl
added extractor info

[sauza45]

Brazos has an article on ejector tuning on his web sight, I know its for 2011 but It might be worth looking at

[Benji]

Sounds like you tried everything on the gun. Have you tried adjusting the load? More or less powder, different powder, etc? 

[Dan4147]

11 hours ago, jpl said:

You want the ejector shaped so that the top of the ejector hits the case before the bottom.  The picture of the ejector in this thread clearly shows the bottom of the ejector forward of the top.   That will drive the case up and not have it come out flat, to the right.

 

Also, look at the shape of the extractor hook.   A radius on the bottom will direct the case to flip up rather than to drive it out at 2:30 - 3:00 o'clock.

 

You are correct in logic on the ejector, but I have filed one to a point on the top and still the brass goes forward and slightly up.  The picture above from Texasdawg is a new Extreme cage, which I am now using after butchering the original.

 

Not sure I understand what you are suggesting on the extractor hook, and how it relates.  Can you be more descriptive?  Thanks.

[Dan4147]

3 hours ago, sauza45 said:

Brazos has an article on ejector tuning on his web sight, I know its for 2011 but It might be worth looking at

 

Thanks.  I have read that a few times while working on 1911s.  Also, I have searched and read up, then tried most everything I could find.

[Dan4147]

1 hour ago, Benji said:

Sounds like you tried everything on the gun. Have you tried adjusting the load? More or less powder, different powder, etc? 

 

Benji, yes but nothing consistent.  Using 124 jhp RMR, 7.5-.6 Autocomp, 1.145.  172pf.  I need it to work with this mainly because I have several thousand projectiles on the shelf, but also because it shoots so well with this. 

[Dan4147]

Update.  I filed a few thousandths off the travel stop on a new extractor.  Shot about 75 rounds and had only a few hit the back of the scope mount.  BUT, I had more empty cases left in the chamber laying on top of a round feeding on the ramp, which means not all of those I had before were from "bouncing" back in the chamber area from the mount strikes.

 

So, I'm going to try some tinkering (again).  A few more thousandths off the extractor nub (making sure not to create feed issues); then maybe put the expower extractor spring back in.  We shall see........it will be a week before I can get back to the range for testing.

[MikeBurgess]

Are you running a extra power extractor spring? when I was having issues with extraction I changed to the Extra power spring and all the issues went away. 

 

 

[theWacoKid]

I've been here with 2011's.  While just playing with ejectors and extractors seems like the way to go, at some point you have to accept that your base relationships of breech face, ejector, and extractor are all jacked up.  Either move the ejector in or the breech face out while maintaining extractor tension.  

[Benji]

3 hours ago, Dan4147 said:

 

Benji, yes but nothing consistent.  Using 124 jhp RMR, 7.5-.6 Autocomp, 1.145.  172pf.  I need it to work with this mainly because I have several thousand projectiles on the shelf, but also because it shoots so well with this. 

Dang man, good luck figuring it out. I'm at a loss. 

[texasdawg]

What about trying a different brand dot mount that moves it forward or try moving the current mount one hole forward? One of the main downsides of running a Tanfo is that hardly no two are alike. It is very hard to tune Tanfos remotely, let alone in hand. Best of luck,,,

[Dan4147]

5 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

Are you running a extra power extractor spring? when I was having issues with extraction I changed to the Extra power spring and all the issues went away. 

 

 

 

Mike, first no, then yes, then no, now yes with a little removal on the extractor stop, but I haven’t tested the current config yet. 

[Dan4147]

3 hours ago, texasdawg said:

What about trying a different brand dot mount that moves it forward or try moving the current mount one hole forward? One of the main downsides of running a Tanfo is that hardly no two are alike. It is very hard to tune Tanfos remotely, let alone in hand. Best of luck,,,

 

Yea, I’m creeping up on that possibility. Will have to get a blast shield too. 

[Dan4147]

19 hours ago, jpl said:

You want the ejector shaped so that the top of the ejector hits the case before the bottom.  The picture of the ejector in this thread clearly shows the bottom of the ejector forward of the top.   That will drive the case up and not have it come out flat, to the right.

 

Also, look at the shape of the extractor hook.   A radius on the bottom will direct the case to flip up rather than to drive it out at 2:30 - 3:00 o'clock.

 

jpl, I should show you this.  Didn't work any better.  But it should have if all other related parts are doing what they should.  fwiw I'm beginning to believe the extractor/fired case relationship is somehow not right.  Working on it.

[jpl]

Looking at the extractor hook from the center line of the pistol, does the hook have a radius at the bottom, front to back?  If so, that will allow the empty to tip up and leave the pistol rising instead of moving out sideways.  I am not familiar with Tanfoglio's but the basic ejector/extractor principles should be the same.

[gianmarko]

the tanfo platform is an almost exact copy of the CZ, which is not a 2011  

i have never seen or heard of extractors or ejectors having to be "tuned" in these guns
i have in fact changed a few extractors in my CM's and the gun always works 100% without any tuning. 

i would in fact strongly advise agains removing any material from these parts, as that means you will have to replace them. 

 

if the gun started malfunctioning after fitting another bracket, then why the problem should be elsewhere?

reinstall the old bracket and see how it goes. 

 

unless you have also changed something else together with the bracket...thats why in testing you never change two things at the same time.

 

guns are very precisely and finely tuned machines. even minor changes will have huge effects on reliable operation. i once spray painted the exterior of the slide of a Sig P220. how thick is a layer of spray paint? gun stopped working altogether and would not go in battery

turned up some paint ended up in the internal sides  of the slide hole where the barrels goes. 

 

i suspect the lip of the cases hit the bracket  during extraction. modern cell[phones have very good slowmo cameras, you could try that.