Whats Is The #1 Thing That Slows Up Improvement

[Flyin40]

I was thinking on the way home from after a match Sunday and it just popped in my head. I was thinking about a stage that I had just shot and had 2 misses on.

I came across a stage that allowed you to try and shoot on the move. When I say on the move I don't mean duck walking, I was cruising. I have never tried to shoot while moving that fast. I ended up with 2 misses on 6 targets I shot at while moving. I was trying to play back in my head what I did wrong. The first thing I realized is I didn't actually know or understand how to shoot like that the "right" way. I had the most fun on that stage. I was laughin about it 10 mins later. Anyways lets get to my point. When thinking about shooting, if you don't fully understand the right way to do it improvement will be minimal or you might improve but all of a sudden hit a plateau.

Heres my ranking of things that hold up improvement

1. Mindset

2. Practice

3. Not fully understanding the technique your practicing or the end goal.

Looking at the 3 I listed and there are many more, we all know you have to have the mindset and a willingness to practice but what about the third one. Lets take the first two out of the equation. I think #3 is very overlooked and the reason I started this thread.

When working on something I found if I really look and try to understand what I'm trying to practice and learn, the learning curve is small. I can learn rather quickly what I need to do for that particular thing. When I quite don't understand something and I continue to work on it I take longer to learn that particular skill. If you understand the technique it makes it easier to identify when me make a mistake because we know the right way to do it.

I think too often we watch video or read a book and go ahhh..........man did you see that reload, smokin and go practice without the emphasis on practing correctly. We all know how to reload but how many of us actually break down the whole technique and actually figure out what needs to be done to have that smokin reload. I used the reload because to me its one of the easiest thing to look at as far as technique. Not much to it. I spent about 1 hr really looking at reloads to get a good grasp on how to do it. Now its just a matter of doing 10,000 of them to get good at it. I always go back to look at it again to keep it fresh in my head.

I would guess that most of the better shooters or top guys have this almost implanted into their thought process, always examining things instead of just doing something without putting much thought into it. This can apply to just about any sport.

Flyin40

[Steve Anderson]

I've never thought about what holds it up...I was thinking you meant what supports it.

Since you didn't ask...

Improvement comes when a superior technique becomes subconscious.

Attitude can prevent that, especially if it's a poor attitude about practicing.

On shooting on the move: I just learned that you shouldn't shoot fast AND move fast. Move fast, shoot slower...Move slow, shoot faster.

SA

[Flyin40]

I've never thought about what holds it up...I was thinking you meant what supports it.

Since you didn't ask...

Improvement comes when a superior technique becomes subconscious.

Attitude can prevent that, especially if it's a poor attitude about practicing.

On shooting on the move: I just learned that you shouldn't shoot fast AND move fast.  Move fast, shoot slower...Move slow, shoot faster.

SA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I changed the title of the thread somewhat so its easier to understand.

On shooting on the move............I know that you shouldn't shoot fast and move fast but damn did I have fun doing it. I have never tried to move fast and shoot, its always been the slow steady duckwalk. I think the only time I will ever do it again would be on extremely close targets, I mean close. The targets were probably were 6 or 7 yds and about 3-7 feets apart. I could of easily stood in one spot and shot all like I do 99% of the time.

Flyin40

[Loves2Shoot]

1. Trying.

[spook]

Ego

[shred]

not working on what you're not good at.

[PaulW]

Lack of confidence.

I really have not shot much since back surgery last year. Getting ready for a local big match I have stepped it up when it comes to matches and dry fire practice. Well let's just say I shot pretty poor, and thats being nice. Hmmm, I know I've shot pretty well in the past yet why am I struggling so bad now. I really started to question myself. Then Sunday came along after a terrible day shooting Saturday and I just burned the image of my dot in the middle of the A-zone. Won the match and really made a huge jump in terms of confidence. Trust yourself and shoot what you see.

[Jake Di Vita]

Spook nailed it.

Ego is the number 1 reason.

If there was no ego...there would be no trying, no "oh I know how to do that", no match stress, no anxiety, no regret....all of that would be replaced by just observing....because there is no good or bad from the result.

And one thing I'd like to add. Just because you are moving fast doesn't mean you have to shoot slow.....I've taken targets at a dead run....as long as you see what you need to see to make the shot, nothing else matters. Tsunami, hurricane, ice storm, sun, rain, fast, slow, easy, hard.....NONE of it matters if you just execute the fundamentals.

[BEDELLCUSTOM]

what about a tornado?

i would say practice, any kind of practice is better than none at all.

[j1b]

I believe not paying attention.

I don't think this is ever intentional - there comes a time when you think you know what you need to know and for whatever reason you stop paying attention. The times I really stopped getting better were the times when I wasn't really paying attention to what I needed to.

It's like driving to me. I've been driving for a number of years (obviously). Recently I bought a motorcycle and that has really forced me to pay attention on the road. Interestingly, riding the bike has translated into my regular driving. It was simply amazing to me what I had not been paying attention to. I've regarded myself a decent driver at least over the years, but after riding the bike I've learned so much about how to drive better. What's even more amazing is how much more I've got to learn - about all of it. Shooting, driving, golf, life - Isn't it fun not having the answers????

J

[Derek45]

Trying to go fast.

I wasted years trying to go fast, crashing and burning.

Better shooters would tell me to slow down and go smooth.

I didn't listen.

[scorch]

#1 Self Image (not Ego, But close to the same)

#2 Practicing Sloppy, just to practice (which may go with #3 above)

#3 Not paying attention, wanting to do everything fast

Had that Bad Match thing this last sunday 6 stages 8 Mikes (A-Limited) Just not seeing what i need to see and TRYING to speed up my transistions. targets where only about eigh feet out most of the Time

[wide45]

Not being hungry.

Not being open.

Edited September 15, 2005 by wide45

[Ben Stoeger]

I think that the Majority of shooters just don't put the effort in. (based on what I have seen, anyway)

But, as for the guys that are on the boards, the guys that are really "into it".... I don't know. For me, the answer is the same. When I put in effort, I get better.

[Paladin]

..Miseducation: Having the wrong concepts of what it takes to shoot well..

[Flyin40]

..Miseducation: Having the wrong concepts of what it takes to shoot well..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is what I really wanted to get into on this thread. There are alot of different things that slow up improvement but I think this one particuarly is overlooked.

If you don't fully understand what your trying to practice and how to practice it you practice the wrong things. You only reinforce wrong technique. Figuring out the whole thing prior to learning it helps tremendously. There are quite a few things that you have to figure out as you go. But once you "figured" them out,

"the light bulb goes off in your head" don't you improve quickly from that point?

I'm saying many don't take the time to look carefully at things, they just jump into them. I'm guilty of this sometimes.

Flyin40

[boo radley]

Too much of that dryfire business....

As a new shooter, I hear what you and Paladin are saying about education and misinformation, but I have to go with answer, a) ego.

I can't think of a single match I've shot, in which ego hasn't kicked visual patience in the ass, and been responsible for rushing, misses, penalties, etc. I've even been practicing at an indoor range, and let it change the way I was shooting because of someone next to me. How healthy is that??

There is no basis in logic for this problem -- who the hell am I going to beat; I'm a lowly C-shooter. When I relax, and really start seeing the sights on the target -- I have a good stage. Someday I'll learn that lesson.

Weird how shooting brings this out - I'm not this way, otherwise.

[p99shooter]

This is, for me anyway, probably the best thread I've seen here in a while.

As a teacher, I realized that showing students how NOT to do things is just as important as showing them the right way to do things. That way they understand why the right way is the right way.

Lack of attention, ego, and lack of confidence are three things that I defenitely need to address. Thanks guys!

[GuildSF4]

..Miseducation: Having the wrong concepts of what it takes to shoot well..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is what I really wanted to get into on this thread. There are alot of different things that slow up improvement but I think this one particuarly is overlooked.

If you don't fully understand what your trying to practice and how to practice it you practice the wrong things. You only reinforce wrong technique. Figuring out the whole thing prior to learning it helps tremendously. There are quite a few things that you have to figure out as you go. But once you "figured" them out,

"the light bulb goes off in your head" don't you improve quickly from that point?

I'm saying many don't take the time to look carefully at things, they just jump into them. I'm guilty of this sometimes.

Flyin40

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I was training in the Military (constant qualification on different systems etc...). I found that if I could draw the system I could explain it, how it worked and why, and if I didn't understand the system I couldn't really draw it.

I think I understand where you are coming from, does this analogy fit what you are thinking?

[Jman]

Tension

[Sam]

I can't learn what I think I already know.

It ties into ego, as several other posters have already mentioned.

Obviously, if I can't shoot a certain field course in XX.XX seconds, it is simply because I don't know how. Why should I keep insisting that I do know? And then keep doing it the same way, over and over, and expecting a different result? (someone once defined insanity the same way)

This is why: The egoic mind very quickly attaches itself to techniques that have worked, however poorly, in the past. The ego loves the past. (Damn, I was good then...)

I learn most when I declare total bankruptcy in my shooting skills account. And just see without judging.

This is a major point that Brian makes in "Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals"!!!

All shooting happens in the present tense. Matter of fact, no activity of any kind, ever happens anywhere else.....

Edited September 16, 2005 by Sam

[Flyin40]

..Miseducation: Having the wrong concepts of what it takes to shoot well..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is what I really wanted to get into on this thread. There are alot of different things that slow up improvement but I think this one particuarly is overlooked.

If you don't fully understand what your trying to practice and how to practice it you practice the wrong things. You only reinforce wrong technique. Figuring out the whole thing prior to learning it helps tremendously. There are quite a few things that you have to figure out as you go. But once you "figured" them out,

"the light bulb goes off in your head" don't you improve quickly from that point?

I'm saying many don't take the time to look carefully at things, they just jump into them. I'm guilty of this sometimes.

Flyin40

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I was training in the Military (constant qualification on different systems etc...). I found that if I could draw the system I could explain it, how it worked and why, and if I didn't understand the system I couldn't really draw it.

I think I understand where you are coming from, does this analogy fit what you are thinking?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats basically what I'm saying. You have to have that clear mental picture of exactly whats supposed to happen and how it supposed to happen. Once you have that and understand the concept of the technique improvement comes quickly, at least for me it does. When things are fuzzy you have to go through a process of trial and error, "yeah that felt better but not quite right etc etc" until you figure it out. I just think this is overlooked by most.

I think there are some things that you can't have that clear picture in your head until you figure it out for yourself. Someone can tell you how to do it but it just doesn't click. For me its calling shots. It something thats going to take trial and error to learn and "know" exactly where that shot went.

Flyin40

[Flyin40]

I can't learn what I think I already know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You sure can learn something you already know. Just because you know it doesn't mean you can do it. What I'm talking about is understanding it in your mind. To physically be able to perform that technique is a whole different thing. I know how to draw correctly, the break down of the draw etc but in no way does that mean I can do it everytime in under 1 second in the a zone. To be able to execute the technique properly and get to a point where you can do it consistently you have to "know" how to do it and then go about learning through repetitions. In other words if you don't know then how can you know whether your doing it wrong or right?

I'm have been trying to understand what is meant by "ego" as it is posted. Can someone further explain how ego comes into play? I stated mindset is #1 thing. Mindset to me encompasses the total mental process, from preparation, self talk, outlook on shooting and life in general, determination and most importantly being non judgemental about your shooting.

Some of you say ego, for me it probably falls into what I call mindset. I just probably look at it a different way. I'm lost on this ego thing completely.

Thks

Flyin40

[Bob Hostetter]

employment and marriage...............

[Flyin40]

Obviously, if I can't shoot a certain field course in XX.XX seconds, it is simply because I don't know how.  Why should I keep insisting that I do know? And then keep doing it the same way, over and over, and expecting a different result? (someone once defined insanity the same way) 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your right on here. Its simply you don't know how which also means you don't quite understand how to do it in your mind either. I'm not sure why you would insist you would know either. I think your talking about the physical aspect and I'm talking more about understanding it as a mental process.

I think your right on again when you mention doing it the same way but expecting a different result. If you don't quite understand the concept then how can you know what to do differently in order to correct the problem. I think many of us, including myself do this sometimes. We overlook it. Just continue doing the same way until you finally take a hard look at it and realize how to do it correctly which ends up being how to do it differently.

Good post Sam

Flyin40