New 1911 Division

[Ron Ankeny]

If you are concerned about your placement, practice works better than complaining.

Ouch.

[kimel]

I agree John, 100%. I am a B in Limited and a C in L10 but only because I haven't shot an L10 classifier in over a year.

I figure I am probably B across the board.

I personally refuse to sandbag but know several people that do.

[Sam]

I appreciate the board's willingness to try and provide a good match experience for all shooters.

And I will continue to shoot my SS gun in L-10 as long as that's where the best competition hangs out.

I expect the Provisional Division will be filled with people who actually believe that a SS is at a disadvantage to a fat gun when the mags are loaded to the same capacity.

Yawn.....

[SteveZ]

And I will continue to shoot my SS gun in L-10 as long as that's where the best competition hangs out. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

....and they WILL hang out in L10!

I'm gunnin' for ya in Albany 2006 Sam!

[Sam]

WOO HOO! You tha man, Steve!

We'll give them fat guns a run for it! See you in Albany, my friend!

[John Dunn]

Keep making fun of the double-stacks and I'll switch to L-10....then you'll be sorry!

(Inside joke for those not in the know, both Steve and Sam can whup my butt)

[LPatterson]

I appreciate the effort board members are expended trying to create a new division but I started shooting my 1911 in Limited with 10 round magazines and I really see no reason to go to an 8 round magazine. In the last Single Stack Classic match we had 2 32 round stages with steel, sure nothing had greater than 8 rounds per position but it almost eliminated a makeup shot for a D & Mikes were killers.

I will continue to shoot our annual SS Classic but I will not bother to shoot classifiers in the new division.

When I feel a need to punish myself I shoot Production.

[Bucky]

Slight thread drift, but I'd support the idea of using your highest classification for all divisions.  If you can shoot Limited A, you're sandbagging shooting Production B, same for other divisions.  If you are concerned about your placement, practice works better than complaining.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While I'd agree for all iron sight divisions, some people are more handicapped with iron sights then others. Therefore, it is likely that some could be "properly" classified one class higher in Open then in "irons".

[AK74]

We all enjoy shooting, but most of us shoot IPSC because we like competitive shooting, and to shoot in competition you need competitors.

IMHO this is the real reason so many are dead set against any new divisions, they believe the division they shoot in will have fewer competitors.

For example locally limited was the biggest division for years, now thanks to production and L-10, Open is the biggest and Limited is only about a third of its former size.

Production and L-10 has attracted a few new shooters to IPSC and I expect SS to do the same, but it will be hard to convince current Limited and L10 shooters that this is a good thing as there division becomes even smaller.

To get back on topic, I support SS division 100%; in fact I have already started shooting it. (In L10).

I also like the shoot your highest class rule, and like others it would not hurt my feeling if it was adopted across the board.

I understand that it maybe too late to change now but 3 years is a long time to go with out a classifier, is there any reason we can’t shoot in SS but write L10 on our classifier?

[JohnRodriguez]

The reference to L-10 in the Front Sight article was for anyone who does not already have a classification.  They should sign up in L-10 for their initial classification as that division is the closest we have to the 1911 division.

Once you have a classification, of any kind, the highest one on file will be used for the next three years.

Gary

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that the new SS division should start out completly new. I shoot my 8-shot revolver in limited-10, and have gotten my classification using a revolver. Maybe we could be included in the SS criteria, since it seem to be the antique division. Just change the name to limited-8

[AK74]

The more I think about it, the more I believe the lack of a SS division classification may be a big problem.

As a middle aged A Class shooter that dos not shoot as much as he use to, not having my SS classifiers count for three years is not a big deal to me personally.

But most younger, newer C & D class shooters are going move up one, two or three Classes in ability in a few years of shooting but will still be shooting there outdated Classification two or three years from now, if they shoot SS division only.

IDPA cross over shooters also tend to initially earn a low classification but as they learn the IPSC way of shooting often quickly move up in class, but if they choose to shoot SS they would be stuck in a class below there ability.

If we are going to pay for, turn in, and archive SS classifiers why not just do the math and give them a Provisional Classification?

[Ron Ankeny]

Our club is slowly dying, and we will die if we don't recruit new blood. I want new shooters to feel they are welcome, and at least feel equipped for entry level competition without buying high zoot magholders, speed holsters, inner/outer belt rigs, etc. The majority of our new shooters are shooting a single stack gun with production type holsters and mag holders. There is no better way for me to make a new shooter feel at home than to shoot similar gear, hang with them at a local match, offer tips and encouragement, etc. For that reason alone, I will shoot SS on occasion. If SS can attract and retain even one or two shooters, it is worth the effort locally.

....as long as that's where the best competition hangs out. 

Ummm, I hate to break the bad news, but I think you need to go to Open for "the best" competiton.

[kimel]

I don't know how many newbies I have talked to that are interested in coming out that have a 1911 SS and are thinking of shooting in PD. When I have to tell them they are in L10 they start making noise about "can't afford all the gear" and never show up or come out once, take a look at those of us with $2-4K of gear and never come back.

Logically, PD almost should have had DA and SA sub-divisions and the SS division essentially does that.

Jeff Cooper has had a long lasting influence on the shooting public of this country that being the enormous popularity of the 1911 SS. Despite Gaston Glock's best efforts I will just about bet there are a ton more 1911s out there than any other single model of auto pistol.

[shred]

I find it amazing how pervasive the single-stack 1911 is in the US. In the rest of the world they're more of a curiosity, like a single-action revolver or Browning Hi-power or something-- interesting, fun, but not really a cult object. I'm thinking the US Army had something to do with their popularity here as well, but it's gotta be the gunwriters fault somewhere

Edited September 14, 2005 by shred

[Patrick Sweeney]

I'll take some of the blame.

[rubberneck]

Since I am oblivious to USPSA rules will a single stack chambered in 9X23 be allowed to make major or does the casing have to be 40S&W or larger.

[Alan Meek]

minimum caliber for major is .40 (10mm) in the SS Division

[XRe]

I'll take some of the blame.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is that "blame", or "credit"??? After all, it is "God's own gun", right???

[Patrick Sweeney]

Blame, credit, notoriety, whatever. I'm a writer, words mean what I say they mean. The reasons the 1911 have such a hold go a lot deeper than "army acceptance" or "lots of power."

If we get to the point of steering ships from star to star, you can count on being able to find three things on board: at least one 1911, at least one bowie knife, and a carton of duct tape.

[richardschennberg]

I think it's too late to completely solve the dilution of both class and categories, resulting in too few competitors in each class and category for local matches. Thirty is too many, but thirty six won't make it a lot worse, and could actually improve things if Single-Stack becomes popular.

If prizes are an issue, why not award class prizes only in Open, and HOA, 2nd, & 3rd in other categories with enough competitors?

Those shooters that believe in the classification system should understand that GM-D classes handicap both equipment and competitors. The guys and gals who believe that only equipment needs to be handicapped can shoot for top in category.

Another idea would be to award class prizes or plaques on a rotating basis. If announced in advance, the money + award category for that month might draw more competitors and allow the classifcation system to be recognized at a local matches.

Richard

Schennberg.com

[Nik Habicht]

I might have naother idea for paying prizes/handing out awards: We pay prize money in the Mid-Atlantic Section for club matches --- $30.- for a division win, $20 for a class win, $12 for a second in Class placement, $9.- for third in class.

The kicker is, that we require five entries in a division before paying HOA, and three entries in Class before paying the class winner. We require higher numbers to pay second and third in class; we reach those so rarely, I'd have to look 'em up.....

[AikiDale]

at least one 1911, at least one bowie knife, and a carton of duct tape.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Add a box of strike anywhere matches and a water bottle and you have survival gear.

[Steve J]

I shoot a 1911 (by definition single stack) exclusively out of love for the gun, the genious of John Browning's design and tradition.

I want very much to support the new SS Division, but the classifier issue is a problem for me.

Getting credit for the classifier is part of the deal, part of the match fee. I don't want to be cheated out of my classifier.

[Alan Meek]

This is my opinion on the classifiers and SS division.

At a majority of the clubs you will probably not have the masses shooting SS division, additionally it is optional for the division to be recognized at Level 1 matches.

My opinion is would be to shoot Lim 10 at level 1 matches and use your SS division gear, 8rd mags for Major. This would keep your classifiers current and as you improve your classifiers would show that. Then when you attend a major match that recognizes SS division you would use your Lim-10 classifier as theoreticaly that would become your highest as you improve. Now there would be some exceptions where people have higher classifications.

Now before everybody starts with you can't be competitive against lim-10 hardware, look at most of the classifiers and they are somewhat 8 rd friendly.

Again just my thought.

Alan

SS Division - Putting the fun back in USPSA

[Gary Stevens]

Folks part of the way we will count the participation in this provisional division is by how many classifiers come in with the 1911 single stack header on them. If you support the venture but shoot all your classifiers in L-10 you are insuring the failure of the division as it will reflect that members at the club level are not participating.

Clubs are allowed to shoot in more than one division. If you want to shoot two classifiers, one in 1911 and one in L-10, that is available and would help on both accounts.

Classifiers are a part of the sport, but the most important part of the sport is the shooting. Put your gear on, load up and shoot. Have fun. Time is fleeting, enjoy it while you can.

Gary