Frustration Level EPIC!!! 9mm muffin top issue needs resolution!!!

[jrswanson1]

When you take the Dillon seating die out, look inside and see if there's any buildup around the cup.  That caused me a lot of headaches before I pulled it and looked.

[sasquatch981]

Thanks to everyone, I was able to fix the issue.  Took about 200 rounds to the range this past weekend and had so issues at all!!!

 

Fix was to get a separate seater, and crimper.  Everything else on my set up stayed the same.

[zander1555]

6 minutes ago, sasquatch981 said:

Thanks to everyone, I was able to fix the issue.  Took about 200 rounds to the range this past weekend and had so issues at all!!!

 

Fix was to get a separate seater, and crimper.  Everything else on my set up stayed the same.

Glad you figured it out, I recently did the same thing and have had much better results as well! 

[DubfromGA]

Are there aftermarket powder funnels that will work best with the Dillon dies & coated 9mm bullets ?

 

 

 

[78Staff]

18 hours ago, DubfromGA said:

Are there aftermarket powder funnels that will work best with the Dillon dies & coated 9mm bullets ?

 

 

 

 

 

For which press?  For the 1050, if you use the swage backup die adjusted correctly you really don't need an aftermarket powder funnel.  For other presses, Both the Mr. Bullet and Uniquetek are good substitutes for the Dillon, or taking your dillon and cleaning it up with a fine emory cloth/flitz polish.

 

A lot of folks recommend running the Mr, Bullet ones, but I've had more issues with them than just using the stock dillon funnels tbh.

[bigedp51]

On 6/25/2019 at 1:45 AM, sasquatch981 said:

Thanks to everyone, I was able to fix the issue.  Took about 200 rounds to the range this past weekend and had so issues at all!!!

 

Fix was to get a separate seater, and crimper.  Everything else on my set up stayed the same.

 

The vast majority of pistol shooters do not trim their cases and the longer cases may still bulge below the crimp

 

The Lee factory crimp die with the carbide ring in its base is a cheat for those people who do not trim their cases. (99.99999% of sane reloaders)

If the case bulges below the crimp the carbide ring sizes the bulge back to normal diameter. The only problem is with cast oversized bullets the carbide ring may also size the bullet smaller depending on case thickness.

[bigedp51]

Just now, bigedp51 said:

 

The vast majority of pistol shooters do not trim their cases and the longer cases may still bulge below the crimp after crimping.

 

The Lee factory crimp die with the carbide ring in its base is a cheat for those people who do not trim their cases. (99.99999% of sane reloaders)

If the case bulges below the crimp the carbide ring sizes the bulge back to normal diameter. The only problem is with cast oversized bullets the carbide ring may also size the bullet smaller depending on case thickness.

 

[78Staff]

Man I must have jinxed myself after posting about not having any issues in one of the 9mm die threads lol...

 

worked up a new load, ran 50 rounds of it to do some final testing.  Decided to be more proactive about checking rounds instead of just pulling one every once in a while.

 

So of 50 rounds give or take, I'd say I had maybe a 1 to 4 ratio of rounds that would not cleanly drop in and out of a Dillon case guage.  Most were just barely above the flat, but I had a few that were a good 1/8 to 3/16 out.

So I took those 10 or 12 or so, ran them back through the seating and crimping stations a second time, and probably half of them would now drop in/out fine.  So I have a few left that are still "out".  

 

Then I threw a FCD in a single stage on  my Inline Fab Quick mount, ran it down on a good round, pulled the round and turned the crimp down 1/2 turn more, which finished up all but 1 round.

 

Now all of these "sightly out" of the gauge would plunk and spin fine in the handgun I was loading these for, except for the few that were excessively out of course.  So not sure how critical it is for my range fodder to be perfect in a gauge.  Even still, that much variance is bugging me.

 

I sized a bunch of cases, and all dropped in the gauge fine so I'm not looking at a sizing die issue best I can tell.  I moved the bullet down a smidge to 1.13 as these coated RN's have a wider ogive than common RN's, thinking maybe that was it.  Better results, but still have rounds failing the gauge, but typically chambering fine..  I also have crimp set to 378 with the dillon crimp die.  The FCD when used is taking it down a bit further.

 

Anyway, just frustrating to think I had it all working great, when in fact I guess I didn't, and still don't.  .  Going to get this sorted, then run about 3k rounds and be done with 9mm for a while.  My 10mm is running low so need to get this done and switch the 1050 over to LP lol.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by 78Staff

[Yondering]

18 hours ago, 78Staff said:

Now all of these "sightly out" of the gauge would plunk and spin fine in the handgun I was loading these for, except for the few that were excessively out of course.  So not sure how critical it is for my range fodder to be perfect in a gauge.  Even still, that much variance is bugging me.

 

 

This is one of the main problems with focusing on a case gauge. If your rounds fit correctly in your pistol barrel, you're not doing yourself any favors by chasing other solutions to make them fit the case gauge. It won't be better ammo when if fits the gauge, and it won't shoot better. Make the ammo fit your barrel and just shoot it. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Yondering

[Steve RA]

+1 for that !!!    

[78Staff]

5 hours ago, Yondering said:

 

This is one of the main problems with focusing on a case gauge. If your rounds fit correctly in your pistol barrel, you're not doing yourself any favors by chasing other solutions to make them fit the case gauge. It won't be better ammo when if fits the gauge, and it won't shoot better. Make the ammo fit your barrel and just shoot it. 

 

Yep I am starting to agree... I never had these issues when I only spot checked a few rounds lol.

 

Seriously though it's good point.  I have two primary 9mm chambers I load for, M&P 2.0 and DW, which require drastically different OAL's so I basically have two different pet loads I run for them.  In this situation as long as it chambers for the barrel I am loading for, it's all gravy. 

[Yondering]

Yup. And you can still check all the rounds if you want, just use the barrel to do it. Or, have a case gauge reamed to match your barrel instead of the minimum spec that doesn't apply to you. 

The barrel the ammo will be shot in is the most accurate case gauge you can get. 

[DougCarden]

Another thing that might be happening is not getting the bullet straight when it is being seated.  If they tip any bit then you can have some shaving and they wont gauge either.  

DougC

[BallisticianX]

On 7/11/2019 at 8:51 AM, DougCarden said:

Another thing that might be happening is not getting the bullet straight when it is being seated.  If they tip any bit then you can have some shaving and they wont gauge either.  

DougC

Spot on. Most standard seating dies are A; seating plug off center in relation to the die body, B; seating plug contour doesn't match the bullet profile and wont allow any self centering. The only way to effectively do away with bullet concentricity issues is to use a floating alignment sleeve type die. I have exclusively started using the Hornady Seating dies as they have an effective alignment sleeve design, are cheap, and agree with progressive presses. I had regular problems with Dillon, RCBS, and Lee (hate Lee stuff) seating dies tipping bullets. When I switched to a Hornady floating alignment die I know have zero bullet concentricity issues.   

[Yondering]

Yep, seating straight is important. I prefer to machine my seater plugs to match the bullet; in 9mm I have a separate plug for each bullet I use. For those without a lathe, you can probably find a local machinist who'd be willing to do the work, they should be able to do it with just your seater plug and one of the bullets. The other option is to use epoxy in the seater plug and "bed" it to match the bullet, just make sure to use release agent on the bullet. Johnson's Paste Wax works well for that.