Tac Sport expected accuracy??

[Sniperboy]

This is my first TS in 40 (and really first time loading 40).  Prior to this I haven't really shot many of them so I do not have a frame of reference.

I have not been satisfied with its performance and today tried to group it from a wooden rest. 

I don't think I am a bad shot and from the rest I am getting 4" at best and 7.5" (this was typical) at worst with 10 to 15 shot groups at 10 yards.  (Factory test target was 2.5" at 25 meters.)

Load is 180gr FP rainier Extreme coated over 4.9gr N320 (1.125" OAL) at major power factor.  (I tried titegroup major which fared poorly - prolly the same 7" group - which is why I tried N320.)

In my informal testing from a previous date it seems like the pistol likes 155gr FMJ going at 145PF.  I did not take measurements but it seems to have a tighter group.  But I do not want to rely on a minor load.

 

I switched to N320 because I bummed some extreme 180s with N320 loads from a friend and it seemed to like it.  When I loaded my own duplicating his formula I was not satisfied.

 

In my old age I am not sweating it to be honest - its not the end of the world.  It wasn't a $3k gun, but my Glocks can do better. 

Is this grouping from the TS40 normal?

 

Not sure I want to spend $60 to send it back to the factory on my dime when I don't know what CZ customer service is like.  They'll likely send it back with no work as typical.

Seems silly to pay $60 for a CGW bushing if that is not the issue?  (I measured the stock bushing.  .550" diameter barrel vs .560" ID stock bushing that does not show signs of wear.  The pistol was used but seemed like it was not fired much if at all.

 

What do you guys think?  am I missing anything?

In the meantime I am going to ask my pal if I can bum some more loads from him and shoot his loads from a rest. 

 

I tell ya, if I wasn't such a good sport this would drive me more and more to drinking ; )

Edited April 26, 2019 by Sniperboy

[selecw]

What group size do you shoot with a Glock 35 or 22 off a rest?

 

4 inch groups off hand would get the job done in USPSA.

 

[obsessiveshooter]

I'd try a different bullet. Your TS should be very accurate, and at least more accurate than a glock. I'd also get a baseline from high quality factory ammo, to make sure something isnt off with your hand loads.

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[Sniperboy]

I don't have much experience in 40 and don't own a 40 Glock, but I wished I brought another pistol as a control.

I edited my original post that my groups from a rest were from 10 yards (not 25).  4" was a one time thing, my other groups were at 7". Reading between the lines, good call, I certainly don't want to sound like I am expecting 2" groups at 25 yards.

 

Editing to add that there is no 4" group.  (kind of like there is no such thing as a free lunch :) )  Found a flyer and a double, they were all 7"+.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Sniperboy

[obsessiveshooter]

At 10 yards, that's really terrible. Something is wrong with the barrel, the gun, or your crimp? You should be shooting all rounds touching at 10 yards.

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[je85]

Something is going on with your reloads.

Try a box of factory ammo before you do anything else.

It should be shooting one ragged hole at 10 yds rested

Edited April 26, 2019 by je85

[Sniperboy]

Edited my past posts that there is no 4" group after all.  For any solace at least the pistol is consistent : )

For what its worth, my powder throws were individually measured from a recently calibrated RCBS electronic powder trickler, and all measured within 1.125"-1.130" OAL.  I will confirm crimp.

 

Thanks for the feedback - this is what I was looking for.  I will ask some friends to load some 40 for me and get some factory ammo to get a second opinion.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Sniperboy

[Rnlinebacker]

This is my first TS in 40 (and really first time loading 40).  Prior to this I haven't really shot many of them so I do not have a frame of reference.
I have not been satisfied with its performance and today tried to group it from a wooden rest. 
I don't think I am a bad shot and from the rest I am getting 4" at best and 7.5" (this was typical) at worst with 10 to 15 shot groups at 10 yards.  (Factory test target was 2.5" at 25 meters.)
Load is 180gr FP rainier coated over 4.9gr N320 (1.125" OAL) at major power factor.  (I tried titegroup major which fared poorly - prolly the same 7" group - which is why I tried N320.)
In my informal testing from a previous date it seems like the pistol likes 155gr FMJ going at 145PF.  I did not take measurements but it seems to have a tighter group.  But I do not want to rely on a minor load.
 
I switched to N320 because I bummed some extreme 180s with N320 loads from a friend and it seemed to like it.  When I loaded my own duplicating his formula I was not satisfied.
 
In my old age I am not sweating it to be honest - its not the end of the world.  It wasn't a $3k gun, but my Glocks can do better. 
Is this grouping from the TS40 normal?
 
Not sure I want to spend $60 to send it back to the factory on my dime when I don't know what CZ customer service is like.  They'll likely send it back with no work as typical.
Seems silly to pay $60 for a CGW bushing if that is not the issue?  (I measured the stock bushing.  .550" diameter barrel vs .560" ID stock bushing that does not show signs of wear.  The pistol was used but seemed like it was not fired much if at all.
 
What do you guys think?  am I missing anything?
In the meantime I am going to ask my pal if I can bum some more loads from him and shoot his loads from a rest. 
 
I tell ya, if I wasn't such a good sport this would drive me more and more to drinking ; )

plated bullets are notorious for tumbling and poor accuracy especially is over crimped. buy some sample packs of coated bullets such as ibejiheads, blue bullets, BBI in 180s. you should see a vast difference

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[MemphisMechanic]

What is your load? Coated bullet?

 

Seriously. Run a mag of quality FMJ ammo through it. I like to do that with all my guns I reload for (the only time they see factory ammo) to develop an accuracy benchmark.

 

It’s worth it to never question whether it’s the handgun or your reloads, and always know exactly where to focus on fixing any issues.

 

[Sniperboy]

Makes sense on quality bullets and factory loaded option.

4.9gr N320 under 180-gr Extreme.  1.125"-1.130" OAL.

EDITED once again, it was old EXTREME bullets I used, not rainier.

I used some long forgotten Extreme coated 180gr under my bench that I thought I would never use (never thought I would try 40) and are prolly 15 years old. 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Sniperboy

[zzt]

First, .010" difference between barrel OD and bushing ID is too much.  Buy the GCW 10X bushing and install it.  My TS bushing had worn, but not as badly as yours.  The 10X brought accuracy back to factory original.

 

Second, if you want to use plated bullets, use Rainier.  They are more accurate the X-Treme, and more accurate in my TS than poly coated.  My major load (172PF) would put 5 bullets into the same bullet hole at 15 yards.  BTW, Rainier bullets do not tumble, even if you put a tight crimp on them.

 

Third, it is remotely possible your barrel does not like those, or any 180gr bullets.  Try 165s.

[Matt1]

The TS shoots fine with 180gn Bullets

Buy a box of Win USA 180gn JHP’s and shoot those offhand. If they don’t group then ask someone else who is known to be able to shoot groups to have a go (a mate of mine always gets me to group his loads to verify what he can do).


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[Rnlinebacker]

11 hours ago, Sniperboy said:

Makes sense on quality bullets and factory loaded option.

4.9gr N320 under 180-gr Extreme.  1.125"-1.130" OAL.

EDITED once again, it was old EXTREME bullets I used, not rainier.

I used some long forgotten Extreme coated 180gr under my bench that I thought I would never use (never thought I would try 40) and are prolly 15 years old. 

[yigal]

only the backlash between barrel 0.550" to bushing 0.560" give u spread angle of 2" at 25yd .change the bushing and check barrel crown.

it's not  o.k. but i  think that for gun of  1700$   u  can invest  another 100$ to fix the  CZ sloppy  trademark  workmanship

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by yigal

[OnceACowboy]

Definitely something not right here.  I have two TS (9 and 40).  The 40 groups 2 inches offhand at 10 yds, half that off a rest.  I'm shooting 4.7 Titegroup, 180 Blue bullets at 1.14.  The 9mm does even better.  I agree with the comment about the 10X bushing.

Edited April 26, 2019 by OnceACowboy

[Sniperboy]

Looks like I got this resolved.

Goes to show that when you're digging yourself out of a hole, it helps for someone else to tell you to stop being a dumbass. 

 

Tried some Ranger 180 SXTs = 1.25" (prolly .5" without one flyer).

I also loaded up some 180 FMJ with the same 4.9gr N320 = 1.5" group.

 

Loaded more 180 Extremes just because I like being an idiot (only difference from the formula above is the bullet).. yep.. better but still a 5" group.

I don't get the wide discrepancy but at this point its irrelevant.

 

Thanks to those who chimed in.  When you're in the thick of things you sometimes forget the basics of troubleshooting.  Total rookie mistake.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Sniperboy

[CzViper]

So it was the bullet?

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[Sniperboy]

As far as I can determine, it was the bullet.  For some reason my OLDER extreme .40 bullets of the same weight was pointier ("sharper") than the more rounded "newer" extremes I bummed from a friend.  The newer extremes grouped substantially better, in the same ballpark as the FMJs under identical loads.

 

There could be other factors but that was what was immediately apparent.  (Diameter and OAL were strangely the same with both batches of extremes.)

Edited June 5, 2019 by Sniperboy

[CzViper]

Are jacketed bullets more accurate than plated bullets under the same load or is this just one example? I shoot plated with my TS and never have had problems.

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