need a bit of spring help-----Czechmate

[Truckin_Thumper]

I am new to the Czechmate and sorting out the recoil spring.  I bought one used, it had 3 springs in the case. Long, med and short, but no color etc. 
I bought a 2nd one and no extra springs. 

I got some major 9 to run through it and having some issues. Seems like the slide is not cycling like it is supposed to and I dont think it it returning to full battery. No primer strikes whatsoever. This is a random event. but a common event. 

If I run some 115 store bought, it runs fine, but it is not as flat as I would like. 

I have some springs from other full size CZs. 
Red=14(?) 
White= 10
and then some silver that I think are stock 75 series (Shadow, SP-01). 

That said, I will set these two up for major PF. Seems like 10# is the one to go with, is that good? 

[Blockader]

I believe the 3 that come with it are 16, 13, and 11. The shortest one with tightest coils is 16. The longest one is 13. The shorter one that has the same coil spacing as the longest one is the 11. 

[Lastcat]

On 1/28/2019 at 6:44 AM, Truckin_Thumper said:

I am new to the Czechmate and sorting out the recoil spring.  I bought one used, it had 3 springs in the case. Long, med and short, but no color etc. 
I bought a 2nd one and no extra springs. 

I got some major 9 to run through it and having some issues. Seems like the slide is not cycling like it is supposed to and I dont think it it returning to full battery. No primer strikes whatsoever. This is a random event. but a common event. 

If I run some 115 store bought, it runs fine, but it is not as flat as I would like. 

I have some springs from other full size CZs. 
Red=14(?) 
White= 10
and then some silver that I think are stock 75 series (Shadow, SP-01). 

That said, I will set these two up for major PF. Seems like 10# is the one to go with, is that good? 

 

I've owned mine since July 2018. It's the newer version. In your case being used, it's hard to tell what has been changed. Unless you have a chance to ask the original owner.

 

If the Hammer (Main) Spring, Firing Pin Spring and Recoil Spring have all been changed, it sounds like this could be your case. The CM Slide is already light at 10.5 oz. If I was you, I would take it apart and clean everything, check the Firing pin for straightness and get all new Stock Main, FP Spring and Recoil Spring (13# or 14#, not sure what rate stock is, as it is unadvertised) from CZ Custom.

 

Start with the gun all stock first and go from there. I have a friend that has a Parrot and using Everglade 115 JHP and only changed the recoil spring to the 9# and shoots Major. I've shot it and it's not as flat as my setup.

 

In my CM I have all stock springs, and shoot major as well, but I use 135 gr RNFP and Federal 200 Primers. Also I use the Cheely 90 degree mount. Works great for me and shoots fast and flat. It sounds like the PO changed things around and it's hard to tell what springs are installed. Did you say you bought a second CM?

[muncie21]

On 1/28/2019 at 9:44 AM, Truckin_Thumper said:

 Seems like the slide is not cycling like it is supposed to and I dont think it it returning to full battery. No primer strikes whatsoever. This is a random event. but a common event.

From what you've written, I'm assuming the hammer is dropping, however the round doesn't discharge and there's no sign of firing pin strike on the primer.  If this is accurate, I would look at firing pin spring and main spring before troubleshooting a failure to return to battery. 

 

If it's not fully in battery and the hammer drops, you've got some serious issues.

 

My initial thought is that the FP spring is very light or perhaps someone lightened the main spring.  Both are pretty easy to check and cheap to replace with factory springs.  Once you do that and if you're still get 'no strikes' (as opposed to light strikes) you'll need to look more into slide timing and trigger mechanics.

Edited January 30, 2019 by muncie21

[Truckin_Thumper]

Well, here is what I am doing/have done. 

I am not reloading, yet. This is my first MPF pistol. I have been shooting mostly production, and Limited Minor. I have wanted to step into Open Major for a good while. 
I should be loading my own next month. Buying $5K worth of pistols puts a damper on things. LOL. 

I have an order for various springs, extended FP w/spring, 11.5# hammer springs (just in case). All from Cajun and for both pistols. 

Now, I also have some Everglades 124 Major due in by friday. 

I am hoping the ammo is consistent, as the ammo I have been shooting is not (shooting buddies loads). 
I will probably start with the 10# Recoil, ext. firing pin kit, and might as well, stick in the hammer spring to make sure, even though the trigger seems fine.     

I'll post up my findings after I shoot it with all the new stuff. 
Bad part I need both pistols setup the exact same, so its twice the effort.  

[cheby]

Make sure that OAL is okay for your gun. Looks like It may be too long. 

[muncie21]

1 hour ago, cheby said:

Make sure that OAL is okay for your gun. Looks like It may be too long. 

If OAL of the bullet is preventing the slide from going into battery AND the hammer is still dropping, OP has got bigger fish to fry than troubleshooting cartridge OAL.

[Lastcat]

2 hours ago, muncie21 said:

If OAL of the bullet is preventing the slide from going into battery AND the hammer is still dropping, OP has got bigger fish to fry than troubleshooting cartridge OAL.

 

Yep, things can go wrong, really fast. When you reload for this CM (Everglades 124 jhp at 1.130) drop a bullet in the barrel and give it a simple spin back and forth. Feel for resistance, if true, bullet is hitting the leade. Just drop the 1.130 down to 1.125 and try again.

[George16]

I agree with last cat’s other post about going back to using stock springs in troubleshooting your problem. My CM still uses the stock  hammer spring which I think is 16# (stiffer than the 15# spring I have from CGW for my Shadow 2).  Firing pin is also stock along with the firing pin spring. The only spring I changed was the recoil spring. I installed a 10# Wolff recoil spring for my 124 Gr PD JHP reloads.

 

I don’t see any need in installing a lighter than stock hammer spring since trigger pull weight is already light. Mine came from the factory with a trigger pull of 1# 3.5 ozs. Check and clean the firing pin channel with a swab soak with acetone or isopropyl alcohol to get rid of all the crud.

 

By the way, the longest spring is 11#, shortest is 16# and in between is 13#.

[Truckin_Thumper]

Thanks all. 

I am fairly intimate with the 75 series CZ platform. What I am not familiar with is the reloads and major ammo. 

I have enough springs due in tomorrow along with some other Cajun goodies. The ammo should be here tomorrow. 
I will say, no matter what, my store bought ammo runs fine. S&B 115 and 150 subs, not that I will shoot subs, but they work the mechanics of the pistol. SO I know it is NOT any internal issues. 
Hoping to have my XL650 in the next couple of weeks and I can make sure my ammo is done right. 

I really want to have stuff running smooth as I would LOVE to get my classification up to an A by summers end.    

Edited January 31, 2019 by Truckin_Thumper

[Truckin_Thumper]

My Cajun goodies came in today along with 500 rounds of Everglades 9 major. 

Extended firing pin, which is a hair over 1mm longer. 10 lb recoil springs and some other stuff for other guns. 

 

I am pretty happy on how the firing pins come out, but if a spring ever lets loose, it could get interesting.  

Hopefully the 10# springs do the job as I have no idea where to get lower ones. 

 

[George16]

You can get 8 and 9# springs from Wolff.

 

Hopefully everything will turn out good with your gun. Keep us updated.

[Truckin_Thumper]

Ok, did not take long to figure out the ammo I had was just too short. 

One on the left is Everglades. AOL = 1.15
One on right is what I had (not my reload). AOL = 1.09 
So, we narrowed one issue down. I know this as both the pistols ran like a top until I used the short ammo. 

Here is where it goes bassackwards. 

10# recoil, both pistols were taking a nose dive. 
13# recoil and it was shooting very flat, but if I go on this Idea, a 14# would make it shoot stupid flat. 

the 10# worked really well for 115gr store bought S&B 
the 13# worked better with the Everglades major 9 

Is this not backwards on how it should work? 

My splits on two shots are about .1 to .15,closer to .15 I can usually do 6 rounds a second, so I am going with .15 splits. Accuracy at this speed and 6 rounds, may or may not be in the A zone. If I do my part I can do those splits on a double tap and keep in in the A zone. 
 

13# my groups were.....1-3" apart shooting major
10# 10-15" apart shooting major

13# shooting minor, 8-10" groups

10# shooting minor 2-3" groups

all at 7 yards

90% of that space is vertical, with some horizontal movement. I would hazard to guess it is not me doing something incorrect. 

This goes against everything I would think and have read. 

 

 

 

[Truckin_Thumper]

Also, 

Has anyone loaded close to 8gr of autocomp had any issues? 

Ran some loads that were 8.2 and the pistol seemed to like that  a lot! 13lb recoil spring BTW. It was shooting really flat. 

[Lastcat]

On 2/2/2019 at 3:46 PM, Truckin_Thumper said:

Here is where it goes bassackwards. 

10# recoil, both pistols were taking a nose dive. 
13# recoil and it was shooting very flat, but if I go on this Idea, a 14# would make it shoot stupid flat. 

the 10# worked really well for 115gr store bought S&B 
the 13# worked better with the Everglades major 9 

Is this not backwards on how it should work?

 

Yes it does seem backwards, but if it works, it works. That's why I run a stock recoil spring for 9 Major.

[muncie21]

7 hours ago, Truckin_Thumper said:

Also, 

Has anyone loaded close to 8gr of autocomp had any issues? 

Ran some loads that were 8.2 and the pistol seemed to like that  a lot! 13lb recoil spring BTW. It was shooting really flat. 

what weight bullet?

With 124gr bullets and 6.5gr WAC from my CM  I'm seeing 175'ish PF.

Edited February 5, 2019 by muncie21

[Truckin_Thumper]

124 gr JHP

 

[Bravo_Victor]

Ive been shooting a CM for over a year now, specifically the parrot model. It came with 1 spring and it was a 10lb spring. I can tell you right now the Everglades 124gr ammo works perfectly fine in the CM with the 10lb spring. Even in the reviews on their website alot of people confirm that it works well. However my loads are different. I am using 115gr MG CMJ over top 8.4gr of HS6 with an OAL of 1.155 yielding a 172-173PF. The gun ran pretty flat. If you are worried about OAL issues, do what everyone else does and ream out the barrel yourself, it is pretty easy. That way you can load longer with different bullet profiles. Ive also used PD 115gr JHP, i forget the OAL but i got them to work reliably as well once i figured out where to seat them. 

[Truckin_Thumper]

1.15" seems to fit the mag very well, I may be able to go 1mm more, but thats it. 

Like I stated, if I run the 10lb, 115 store bought works great, the 13# works well with both 8.2 and 7.2, but better with 8.2. 
Dont think I gave the 8.2 a shot (no pun) from the one with a 10# spring. 

It may be backwards, but it works, I suppose. 

I am looking forward to loading my own, and need to get rolling. Goal is to be classed as an A by summers end in Open. 

[George16]

The longest I was able to load my CM without any problems was around 1.152-1.154”. I’m using a 10# Wolff spring for my 124 Gr PD JHP with 6.51 Gr of CFE pistol at around 169 - 171 pf.

 

For 115 Gr JHP, I’m loading it with 7.5 Gr of CFE pistol yielding about 171 - 173 pf.

 

if it works, it works. It doesn’t matter if it’s backwards.

[Truckin_Thumper]

10 hours ago, George16 said:

The longest I was able to load my CM without any problems was around 1.152-1.154”. I’m using a 10# Wolff spring for my 124 Gr PD JHP with 6.51 Gr of CFE pistol at around 169 - 171 pf.

 

For 115 Gr JHP, I’m loading it with 7.5 Gr of CFE pistol yielding about 171 - 173 pf.

 

if it works, it works. It doesn’t matter if it’s backwards.

Thats true, if it aint broke dont fix it. 

this is the CM sprung for 115 store bought. 
 

 

[George16]

1 hour ago, Truckin_Thumper said:

Thats true, if it aint broke dont fix it. 

this is the CM sprung for 115 store bought. 
 

 

 

Congrats on your stage win.

 

Looks great to me. Just shoot it that way and don’t worry too much about it.

[Truckin_Thumper]

well, I finally figured out what the issue is. 

Its me, I think....LOL 

If I slam the mags home, it causes a nose dive. 

If I firmly drive a mag in, no issue. 

So I have to retrain myself to not slam the sumbitch in. 

Anyone else have this issue? 

[clw42]

26 minutes ago, Truckin_Thumper said:

If I slam the mags home, it causes a nose dive. 

If I firmly drive a mag in, no issue. 

So I have to retrain myself to not slam the sumbitch in. 

Anyone else have this issue? 

 

The rounds nose dive because of the double stack to single stack transition point in the mag.  I had the same problem...as have others.  Some people have it, some don't.  Some people load around the problem, choose different bullet profiles or OAL.  I chose to send mine to Grams Engineering to have them fixed and I don't have any issues now regardless of load or bullet choice as long as they fit in the mags.  When I first started with mine, they ran some bullets but not others and it progressively became worse and soon I couldn't run anything without a nose dive.  That's fine at club matches or practice, but during a classifier, it really hurts.  Especially when it's pressing so hard against the feed ramp that the mag won't release and you have to dig it out manually...a real time suck.