Squib?

[PK1911]

2 questions. At recent match, there were 10 required shots on target. A shooter had a squib on his 10th shot.

I would score this as a "miss" and no re shoot.

2nd, shooter was required to shoot 2 targets from behind cover. Shooter shot both target from in the open, ie)

not behind cover. would this be 1 PE?      some say 2 PE's one for each target.

[IHAVEGAS]

"2 questions. At recent match, there were 10 required shots on target. A shooter had a squib on his 10th shot.

I would score this as a "miss" and no re shoot."

 

Not sure about IDPA if the s.o. did not say "stop" when the squib happened, suspect you are correct. If I have the timer I do not play games with squibs and error on the side of giving a re-shoot or zero rather than not hollering stop whenever I hear a squib. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by IHAVEGAS
or zero

[Jim Watson]

If I stop him and he has a stuck bullet or if he stops himself and does or does not have a stuck bullet, miss.  I would have to reread the rules to see if he got a PE for stopping without a stuck bullet. 

If I stop him and he does not have a stuck bullet, reshoot. 

 

One PE per position of cover faulted. 

[okorpheus]

If the squib happened on the 10th shot, it's a miss no matter what. No PE. He fired the required number of shots, the last one just didn't make it out of the barrel. If the SO stops him and there is no squib, it's a reshoot.


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[Sarge]

3 minutes ago, okorpheus said:

If the squib happened on the 10th shot, it's a miss no matter what. No PE. He fired the required number of shots, the last one just didn't make it out of the barrel. If the SO stops him and there is no squib, it's a reshoot.


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Does IDPA define a shot like USPSA does? Bullet has to leave the barrel in USPSA.

[okorpheus]

Does IDPA define a shot like USPSA does? Bullet has to leave the barrel in USPSA.

Couldn’t find anything in the rule book. Didn’t realize that was the case in USPSA until you mentioned it.


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[okorpheus]

Brings up another interesting question. If you are the RO/SO and suspect a squib on what you would expect to be the last shot, do you say stop or if you are finished. Does the answer change if it’s limited?


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[Sarge]

7 hours ago, okorpheus said:

Brings up another interesting question. If you are the RO/SO and suspect a squib on what you would expect to be the last shot, do you say stop or if you are finished. Does the answer change if it’s limited?


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If I detect a squib I call stop. Doesn’t matter when it happens.

[Joe4d]

5.1,,,  if both targets could be shot from same position its only one procedure...  
IDPA is one procedure per type of infraction, not one per target.  Or I guess the rule book kinda contradicts itself.
However the Squib rule is pretty clear... 4.3

[pskys2]

6 hours ago, Sarge said:

If I detect a squib I call stop. Doesn’t matter when it happens.

+1 he must have it checked before shooting  anything else.  If it has a bullet in the barrel it must be removed.  No res-hoot if you didn't stop him before time runs out.

[IHAVEGAS]

22 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

No res-hoot if you didn't stop him before time runs out.

 

??

The squib, or the shot before will always be the last shot on the timer. 

[RePete]

21 hours ago, Sarge said:

If I detect a squib I call stop. Doesn’t matter when it happens.

 

I, too, call stop if I hear/suspect a squib.

 

No squib, reshoot, but if there is a squib, he's done for that stage and must clear the barrel before continuing.

[BillR1]

1st question...down 5, no reshoot

 

2nd question...technically, shooting an entire array out of cover calls for an FP according to the rule book. However, I would give one PE unless he got more than a 3 second advantage to do it that way. I know...calls for subjectivity.

[pskys2]

23 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

??

The squib, or the shot before will always be the last shot on the timer. 

I wasn't clear, if the squib was the last shot expected to be fired in the COF.

But he could argue that he wanted to make up a shot, and the RO should have stopped him before another round could be fired  Then if no bullet in the barrel shooter would get a re-shoot.  If there was one in the barrel, no re-shoot.

[BillR1]

1 hour ago, pskys2 said:

I wasn't clear, if the squib was the last shot expected to be fired in the COF.

But he could argue that he wanted to make up a shot, and the RO should have stopped him before another round could be fired  Then if no bullet in the barrel shooter would get a re-shoot.  If there was one in the barrel, no re-shoot.

If the SO stops him and there's no squib, he gets a reshoot. If there is a squib, there's no reshoot regardless if the SO stops him or if he stops himself. If the shooter stops himself there's no reshoot. 4.3 in the rulebook explains this clearly.

Edited January 30, 2019 by BillR1

[Joe4d]

6 hours ago, BillR1 said:

1st question...down 5, no reshoot

 

2nd question...technically, shooting an entire array out of cover calls for an FP according to the rule book. However, I would give one PE unless he got more than a 3 second advantage to do it that way. I know...calls for subjectivity.

have to call BS on that,,,  no way it is 3 seconds faster to shoot 2 targets from open vs typical IDPA "Cover"   So no competitive advantage that cant be handled by a 3 second PE. 

[BillR1]

24 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

have to call BS on that,,,  no way it is 3 seconds faster to shoot 2 targets from open vs typical IDPA "Cover"   So no competitive advantage that cant be handled by a 3 second PE. 

??

What exactly are you "calling BS" on?

"5.2.2 Examples of an FP (non-inclusive list): E. Shooting an entire array while faulting the line". As I stated, the offense in question calls for an FP. As I also stated, the SO is allowed some latitude in judging whether or not the shooter received more than a 3-second advantage for his action. On a 2-target array, I seriously doubt he/she gained more than 3 seconds. This is why I said I would give a single PE for the infraction instead of an FP. A 3-second PE penalty would cover it.

[Joe4d]

another example of IDPA's jacked up rule book,, thats what is BS,, 2 people could do same thing and get 2 different scores,,,  2 different rules right next to eachother that say 2 different things.
5.1 For cover violations (or faulting the line), the number of cover PEs cannot exceed the number of positions of cover.
5.2... FP  E. Shooting an entire array while faulting the line..
Yeh I need to stay off IDPA discussions.. 18 years and the suggestion book is still a hot mess

 

[Diver123]

Always call stop on a possible squib no matter who, what, or where you are on a stage. If there is a squib no reshoot no matter if the SO called stop or the shooter stopped themselves. If no squib and SO stopped them its a reshoot. Shooters stops themselves no reshoot. Score it down 5 unless the reshoot rules apply.

 

As for cover calls HQ has said that if the shooter is inadvertently faulting the line with their foot over its 1 PE. What is that? Maybe the shooter doesn't realize their foot is over the line. The FP applies when the shooter runs up to and grossly over the fault line. Stepping clearly over and beyond the fault line. PE's are not given out on a per target basis. They are given out on a per type of infraction for the string. You can not get more than 1 PE for the same infraction except cover violations.