Consistently Shooting Low/left

[wwiley]

Ok, I am a somehwat experienced glock shooter who is having some problems. First some history. I have been shooting glocks for a litte over 3 years now. I have dabbled in USPSA, Steel, and various other competitions. I have ALWAYS had the problem of shooting low/left. I have scoured the message boards on several sights and read what seems like everybody's take on grip, trigger control, etc. I would like some input on what might be causing my shots to drop low and to the left. I notice that at closer ranges (out to 10 yds) I have no problem keeping most of my shots in a 4 inch bull. Outside of that, they tend to drift up to 5 inches or so in an 8 o'clock manner from the bull. I had a local instructor examine my technique and he could not find anything out of the ordinary.

Any suggestions? Should I post a grip picture?

[shred]

Does it happen off a solid bench-rest? Then it's likely to be the gun. If not, it's something to do with the shooter.

As a lefty, it's real easy for me to shoot a Glock low-right-- yanking on the trigger is what does it for me.

[Jake Di Vita]

A friend of mine had the exact same problem....it had to do with the grip angle and the gun just pointed left for him. He threw some Hogue grips on there and said it worked itself out...I haven't seen him shoot it yet so I can't comment on it.

Other than that, I would have a friend that is a good shooter also shoot it and see if it does the same thing for him (don't tell him what the problem is though...the sub-conscious like to play tricks on us).

[wwiley]

A friend of mine had the exact same problem....it had to do with the grip angle and the gun just pointed left for him. He threw some Hogue grips on there and said it worked itself out...I haven't seen him shoot it yet so I can't comment on it.

Other than that, I would have a friend that is a good shooter also shoot it and see if it does the same thing for him (don't tell him what the problem is though...the sub-conscious like to play tricks on us).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny you should suggest that. I have had a couple of other people shoot it, and they do not have a problem with it. Its just me. I just cant figure out what it is that I am doing wrong. I will post a grip pic later tonight.

[EricW]

You're milking the gun as you pull the trigger. Shooting low-left is a very common prob for righties. One thing you can try is to rotate your right hand around so that your index finger contact the trigger at the first joint. This will give you more leverage to pull the trigger without feeling like you need to use your whole hand to do it.

It's just a trick, remember. I did it for a couple of years and I've dumped it. But it did help me get past the milking. Sometimes, all you need is a "trick of the day" to get back on the horse.

[Clay1]

Most likely trigger control and not so much grip. Practive dry firing the gun until you can hold the sight picture all the way through the trigger break and beyond. Shoot slowfire groups for a while. When I work on speed and get sloppy with my trigger control and start jerking it goes off to the lower left as well.

One comment on grip though. If you are putting your left index finger on the front of the trigger guard it is easy to pull it left and that is why you don't see anyone shooting with this grip lately. All four finger of your weak hand under the trigger guard.

Dry fire should work you through your problem.

[wwiley]

You're milking the gun as you pull the trigger.  Shooting low-left is a very common prob for righties.  One thing you can try is to rotate your right hand around so that your index finger contact the trigger at the first joint.  This will give you more leverage to pull the trigger without feeling like you need to use your whole hand to do it.

It's just a trick, remember.  I did it for a couple of years and I've dumped it.  But it did help me get past the milking.  Sometimes, all you need is a "trick of the day" to get back on the horse. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Eric,

Are you referring to what is called a sympathetic response? If I were milking, wouldnt this show its ugly head during dry fire sessions? I dry fire at least once a week and I can consistently hold the pistol steady and pull the trigger without movement.

I give up... I think I will just become a gigolo.

[EricW]

wwiley,

It's either a flinch, or milking the gun as you pull the trigger. Sometimes you do stuff that only manifests itself during live fire. Get some snap caps / dummy rounds and mix them in at random with your live ammo. That's a good way to diagnose this problem.

Virtually everybody's been through this. I fight it every time I have a layoff. Focus you energy on only moving that one finger as you fire. Things will get better.

[GuildSF4]

Eric,

Are you referring to what is called a sympathetic response?  If I were milking, wouldnt this show its ugly head during dry fire sessions?  I dry fire at least once a week and I can consistently hold the pistol steady and pull the trigger without movement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As Eric says try some Ball and Dummy drills. Sometimes the problem with dry firing is your "subconscious?" knows it is dry firing and the trigger pull is not the same.

You also want to see the sights the whole time you are pulling the trigger and in follow-thru this may help determine what is happening.

[jm951]

I have the same problem and an instructor told me that if the sights are properly aligned, it's usually caused by a "sympathy" pull of the other fingers on your hand. To verify if that was what I was doing, I tried a 1911 gripping only with the thumb and middle finger on the grip, very noticeable improvement. Now when I practice dry fire, I try to consciously keep the pressure off of my last two fingers. Sounds crazy, but it's helped me.

[AustinMike]

I notice that at closer ranges (out to 10 yds) I have no problem keeping most of my shots in a 4 inch bull.  Outside of that, they tend to drift up to 5 inches or so in an 8 o'clock manner from the bull. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I feel your pain. I totally blew an Outer Limits steel stage due to this a few weeks back, so I'm determined to lick this problem. My "trick of the day" lately has been to get my left thumb up under the frame in the nook where the trigger guard meets the bottom of the frame, with the thumb pointing at the target. This seems to help prevent gun movement and my trigger can run along my left thumb through the trigger guard, giving it a straight edge of sorts to prevent any hooking or "milking."

The other thing that I've been working on is making sure I see the front sight lift after I pull the trigger. You'll see that over and over again out here. It does work. If you don't see the gun lift in recoil from where you were aiming, the bullet didn't go where you were aiming.

Make sure you fire your gun from a solid rest and verify where it's hitting. That will put to rest any concern over equipment issues. Good luck!

[kevin c]

I just got rid of this problem shooting SA by not riding the trigger for the second shot. Turned out that, at least in my free style (two handed) grip and in SHO, I tended to push on the right side of the trigger (for a RH shooter) instead of pulling straight back. By slapping the trigger (coming off the trigger face completely and then back on), I was able to center up my second shots, which were the ones drifting to the 8:00 position. The problem didn't appear on single shot drills or group shooting from a rested position, because it was mostly a follow up shot trigger push problem.

WHO, I definitely have a major sympathetic squeeze jerking low and right. I can see it in the equivalent of a ball & dummy drill.

I think you can have the same problem, and potentially the same cure, with the Glock's Safe Action trigger.

Kevin C.

[hammerspring]

Do you shoot fixed sights ? I cannot shoot fixed sights. I shoot low left every time and with any gun. I have gone to adjustable sights on everything, and no longer have any problem. May be worth looking at.

[kevin c]

Do you shoot fixed sights ? I cannot shoot fixed sights. I shoot low left every time and with any gun.  I have gone to adjustable sights on everything, and no longer have any problem. May be worth looking at.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please don't take this wrong. I'm just a B class shooter, and perhaps shouldn't be giving specific advice, but I think that adjustable sights are there to adjust POI to POA with the gun as held still as possible, not to compensate for a problem with technique that makes your gun move off the POA as the gun fires.

I'd been tempted to do the same thing, adjust sights to what I thought was the fairly predictable lateral mvmt. I'd see when pulling a DA trigger. More experienced shooters pointed out that I was ingraining bad habits this way, and that the "correction" needed would vary with the gun used, the speed and type of shooting, and the ammo used. Improving my technique was the best way of making my shooting more consistent across various platforms.

FWIW,

Kevin C.

[TMC]

I had this some type of problem shooting my revolver. When I put a trigger stop in it went away. What I believe was happing in my case was as the trigger pull was getting heavier near the end of its travel I was appling the needed heavier pressure but then as the trigger "broke" and the hammer was falling I was still pulling the trigger hard and fast due to the available overtravel, so as the bullet was leaving the barrel the trigger was slamming aginst the end of its travel which upset the shot. Now with the trigger stop the trigger stops as the hammer is falling so the shot isn't upset.

I have some of the same issues you have when shooting stock Glock triggers. With my gamey Glock triggers that are very smooth with no hard break I don't pull shots.

My .02

[AWLAZS]

Ok, I am a somehwat experienced glock shooter who is having some problems.  First some history.  I have been shooting glocks for a litte over 3 years now.  I have dabbled in USPSA, Steel, and various other competitions.  I have ALWAYS had the problem of shooting low/left.  I have scoured the message boards on several sights and read what seems like everybody's take on grip, trigger control, etc.  I would like some input on what might be causing my shots to drop low and to the left.  I notice that at closer ranges (out to 10 yds) I have no problem keeping most of my shots in a 4 inch bull.  Outside of that, they tend to drift up to 5 inches or so in an 8 o'clock manner from the bull.  I had a local instructor examine my technique and he could not find anything out of the ordinary.

Any suggestions?  Should I post a grip picture?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too much finger in the trigger if you are right handed and stop worrying about the recoil

[fishnfst]

I have the exact same problem.... I always shoot low left. My groups don't move around, so whatever I'm doing I'm doing it on all of the shots... Slow fire. Timed fire, rapid, fire all the same..... During dry fire the sights do not move off of the target.. My partners will shoot my gun and it will shoot high right for them when it hits dead on for me.... The only time it changes is during WHO. I had thought it was a flinch for years or yanking on the trigger.

The only thing I could think of is it has something to do with the way I ride the recoil. Just changing my grip around will affect poi a minimal amount. Just like shooting off sandbags or a benchrest my poi would normally come up a little but still to the left.... All of my guns do it or I should say I do it to all of my guns be it a revolver, double action, single action, safe action or any of the other combinations.....

If you figure it out let me know how you did it....

[Flexmoney]

It is quite simply (in nearly 100% of the cases) a flinch associated with anticipation of recoil. The two stage trigger of the Glock likely leads into this anticipation.

Easy way to check...shoot it with the weak hand. See where the hits go.

[wwiley]

Flex,

After thinking back to some other pistols I have shot, I realized that I exhibit the same behavior with all of them. I will try WHO this weekend and see what happens. Do you have any suggestions ofr eliminating "the flinch."

Thanks for all of your replies. You support has been helpful during this traumatic ordeal. I dont know how I would survive without my fellow Glockers.

[Flexmoney]

Flex,

Do you have any suggestions ofr eliminating "the flinch."

Yep...use the SEARCH button here on the forum. Search for "flinch breaker" and use my username (flexmoney) as a filter. You should find what you need from there.

[wwiley]

Flex,

Do you have any suggestions ofr eliminating "the flinch."

Yep...use the SEARCH button here on the forum. Search for "flinch breaker" and use my username (flexmoney) as a filter. You should find what you need from there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not finding anything other than this thread and another about Dale Rhea triggers.

[Mike H]

Your trigger finger maybe riding the upper receiver a bit as you engage the trigger. It's very easy to do, unfortunately I know this extremely well from personal experience. I have to concentrate to keep my trigger finger off the slide and engage only the trigger with my index finger when pulling back.

The Glock design seems to encourage this in many shooters. One fix is a dremel or other tool to slice away some of the area around the top/back part of the slide around the trigger.

Of course the ever present flinch only compounds this problem.

[Alphafox24]

Moderator note: threads merged here.

So my Glock 17 has been gradually shooting left for the past year.

Gen3 Glock17 SPECS:

-Factory Barrel

-Factory Slide and sights

-Wolff springs and guide rod

-Ghost trigger connector and springs

-Titanium striker and safety

-Hogue Grip

Beginning of the year at the opening IDPA match I noticed that I was shooting slightly low left at the first stage. Thinking it was nerves and cold out, I figured I was doing rookie mistakes; compensating, anticipating the shot, yanking the trigger.

So for the next two stages I tried getting back into the game.....No luck.

The last 3 stages I started doing Kentucky windage just to hit something. I was good with everything 25yds and under but anything further was apparently low left.

This puzzled me since I was dead-on the last time I shot it (granted I shot it 4 months prior to the match), nevertheless, it was dead on.

For the rest of the year, I used my Glock 21 to shoot IDPA and 3Gun matches. The Glock 21 performed flawlessly.

The last 3Gun match of the year (Zombie Match) was purely for fun and not timed, so I decided to knock the dust off the Glock 17 again. The night prior, I fully disassembled the firearm and gave it a nice scrub down and oil bath. I feel the wife is jealous at this point. She's just lucky I didn't oil bathe the Glock in candlelight.... HA

Needless to say, at the match, I ended up shooting Kentucky windage just to finish off the first two stages, and reverted back to shooting the Glock 21.

A couple weeks after the match, I asked a friend to come out and shoot with me. He noticed it shot low left as well. We both shot it off a bench with a rest and noticed it shot left but not low.

We took off the hogue grip that we noticed twisting after every 5 rounds. The "low" stopped but the "left" persisted.

Observations:

-No apparent bulging in the barrel

-Rear sight is still centered, (never touched)

-Everything appears to be aligned

I apologize for the long winded explanation and thank you, in advance, for your comments, questions, and help.

-Ren

Edited December 11, 2012 by Flexmoney

[dee loo]

Detail strip the gun and look for cracks or unusual wear on the locking block, slide, and barrel. A friend had a gun that functioned fine, but started shooting poor groups, the locking block was cracked.

[Alphafox24]

Thank you for your input dee loo!

As soon as I get home, I will detail strip my Glock and see if there are any unusual wear and/or cracks.

-Ren