Educatedhick Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I'm starting to put my gun together for the next season, and I want to shoot in carry optics. I have a glock 34, and before I take a dremel to it I'd like to know if an accelerator / *thumb rest [generic]* cut is legal for carry optics. The rules are kind of vague. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe they mean that anything goes for stippling anywhere on the gun. Can someone please clarify before I have an illegal CO frame on my hands? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itlogo Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Are you asking if the holes to mount the thumbrest are legal or if the rest itself is? Well, both are illegal in CO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Contact DNROI for a definitive ruling, I would suggest including a picture of the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 The stippling is ok. And if you can undercut the trigger guard and the finger groves it seems fine. But like they said above DNROI is the guy you want to talk to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Educatedhick Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 Emailed DNROI, and only got a reply with a link to the rules. I included pictures and was very polite and professional, and only ended up with information I already had and no clarification. The rules of appendix D7 21.4 state, "Grip modifications such as, but not limited to, undercutting/smoothing trigger guard, adding or removing finger grooves,...., without reference to Appendix E4." So does this mean it's pretty much a free for all when it comes to CO grips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casarez Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 The grip yes, you want a change to the frame forward of the trigger. I would assume it is not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcBurn Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 On 12/9/2017 at 1:55 PM, casarez said: The grip yes, you want a change to the frame forward of the trigger. I would assume it is not allowed. What happens if you mount the thumb rest to the grip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casarez Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 20 hours ago, JMcBurn said: What happens if you mount the thumb rest to the grip? You can mount one and find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcBurn Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 7 hours ago, casarez said: You can mount one and find out. I mean you could theoretically add a small thumb shelf like bulleye target grips have as that is a grip modification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 If you are just talking about adding stippling/texturing on the frame for your thumb to rest on, then yes, you can. If you are wanting to actually mount an external thumb rest on the gun, then no, you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef15 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 If you are just talking about adding stippling/texturing on the frame for your thumb to rest on, then yes, you can. If you are wanting to actually mount an external thumb rest on the gun, then no, you can't.Pretty sure he's talking about the mod where you diagonally grind away half the "pad" above the front of the Glock trigger guard, just in front of the slide lock/take down lever. Gives your weakhand thumb a very small ledge to push down on. It's not strictly stippling, and not reprofiling the grip or triggerguard so it seems a little grey. Given the popularity of it in "custom" Glock circles though I wouldn't be surprised if they allowed it.Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutycalls75 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 There’s a guy who shoots for Agency Arms and he has the accelerator cut, so I would think your good to go. You can see his glock here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casarez Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) In the thread he says he does not compete with the gun that has accelerator cuts. Edit: Hmm, reading through maybe he does. You could always ask him. he shot Area 8 and a few others and if allowed there then it is good to go I would think. Edited December 12, 2017 by casarez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 If he's shooting the gun in the picture, it's in Limited, not CO, so that wouldn't be applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutycalls75 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 hours ago, JAFO said: If he's shooting the gun in the picture, it's in Limited, not CO, so that wouldn't be applicable. The gun that’s referenced in the thread is below, and it’s definitly a CO gun and has the accelerator cut. I wasn’t referring to the stock photo from posting the link which the is of Vogel and his limited gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) I see. App D7, 21.4 says: Grip modifications such as, but not limited to, undercutting/smoothing the trigger guard, adding or removing finger grooves, or adding stippling, grip tape, or checkering are specifically allowed, without reference to Appendix E4. Grip tape or grip sleeves cannot disengage a grip safety. You could infer from the above that adding a textured step for the offside thumb may be allowed, especially because of the "but not limited to" part of the rule. However, that inference really goes against the last line of the Special Conditions: — UNLESS a modification is SPECIFICALLY authorized in the rules or SPECIFICALLY authorized in an official, published NROI interpretation, it is considered a PROHIBITED MODIFICATION. Cutting a shelf is NOT specifically listed as an approved modification. Of course, modifying the slide other than to add texture or mount an optic should be prohibited, but I've seen several CO Glocks with that diagonal cut at the bottom of the slide nose. What it comes down to is that, if the RM at a match asks you to show the rule that specifically ALLOWS cutting a shelf, you really can't. At least, not until they modify the CO rules again. If I were the OP, I'd do no more than texture or checker the area. But that advice is only worth what you paid for it. Especially since others seem to be running what should be illegal CO mods without any penalty. Edited December 13, 2017 by JAFO Edited to correct diagonal slide cut, not frame cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 It seems the potential benefits are small, but the potential risks are larger.Archer, not the arrow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutycalls75 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 19 hours ago, JAFO said: I see. App D7, 21.4 says: Grip modifications such as, but not limited to, undercutting/smoothing the trigger guard, adding or removing finger grooves, or adding stippling, grip tape, or checkering are specifically allowed, without reference to Appendix E4. Grip tape or grip sleeves cannot disengage a grip safety. You could infer from the above that adding a textured step for the offside thumb may be allowed, especially because of the "but not limited to" part of the rule. However, that inference really goes against the last line of the Special Conditions: — UNLESS a modification is SPECIFICALLY authorized in the rules or SPECIFICALLY authorized in an official, published NROI interpretation, it is considered a PROHIBITED MODIFICATION. Cutting a shelf is NOT specifically listed as an approved modification. Of course, modifying the slide other than to add texture or mount an optic should be prohibited, but I've seen several CO Glocks with that diagonal cut at the bottom of the slide nose. What it comes down to is that, if the RM at a match asks you to show the rule that specifically ALLOWS cutting a shelf, you really can't. At least, not until they modify the CO rules again. If I were the OP, I'd do no more than texture or checker the area. But that advice is only worth what you paid for it. Especially since others seem to be running what should be illegal CO mods without any penalty. I believe you could make a strong arguement that the “accelerator cut” is specifically allowed by the rules. The thumb shelf is nothing more than a finer groove and the rules specifically say adding finger grooves is approved. That coupled with proven evidence that other shooters (who have fancy jerseys) are using them on their guns at major matches without issue, should more than be enough evidence to convince an RM of it’s legality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 After going to AA's webpage and seeing a closer picture of the "cut", I agree it's really just a slight reduction and some stippling. The fact that they exempt CO from App E4 should make it legal. Calling it a cut makes it sound like more than it is. But I would caution against trying to justify any CO modification by saying someone else is using it. That won't make a difference to an RM following App D7, 21. You've got to be able to point to a rule that allows it. Authorized modifications (Strictly limited to these items and their stated guidelines) Please note that, during a match, a shooter may be required to demonstrate that their gun is in compliance with Division rules by identifying a specific rules clause or published interpretation, which authorizes any disputed modification. If the shooter cannot identify an authorizing rules-clause or published interpretation, the RM shall rule that the modification is PROHIBITED for Carry Optics use and shall move the shooter to Open Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 So you can undercut trigger guard now but not in Production division correct? Am I reading that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipdynamite Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 hour ago, HoMiE said: So you can undercut trigger guard now but not in Production division correct? Am I reading that right? I believe this to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcc7x7 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 2 hours ago, HoMiE said: So you can undercut trigger guard now but not in Production division correct? Am I reading that right? Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 On 12/12/2017 at 1:11 PM, Dutycalls75 said: There’s a guy who shoots for Agency Arms and he has the accelerator cut, so I would think your good to go. You can see his glock here: See I was gonna say something snarky along the lines of instead of sending pictures of your gun send pictures of how many logos are on your shirt. Looks like I wasnt really that far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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