9mm Major Or 38 Super In An Open Gun

[Adam B]

I am about to buy an open gun and I can't decide between 9mm Major or 38 Super. I had a 9X21.5 TSW in the past and really liked it but that wasn't on the 1911 platform (in which I am getting the new open gun in). Any suggestions and/or pros/cons would be greatly appreciated.

TIA

[stingerjg]

I took the same route. I started w/ a 9x21 on a Witness platform. I choose to go for the 38SC route. I think there are more loads that work in 38CS than what will work w/ 9major. Any good smith can get a 9major gun to work, so thats not really an issue.

[Chriss Grube]

Lots of loads work for 9 major and brass is dirt cheap.

[smokshwn]

So far I haven't heard of anyone claiming a significant performance advantage between either caliber at the current pf. There seems to be plenty of smith's making guns that run and the either SVI or STI mags work fine in 9mm. So it seems as though the main issues between 9 and 38s has come down to available loads and cost.

First lets address loads: I have about 9k rds through my Bedell Shorty in 9mm and have easily made major with four powders (3n37, Power Pistol, Trueblue, and Silhouette) and I know of 3 or 4 more powders that others are making major with as well. You can see a very good 9mm load info thread in the reloading forum. IMHO if you need more choice than 8 powders then you may be a little on the nitpickety side. Also I wouldn't be surprised to see the manufacturers coming out with a couple of powders specifically mixed up for 9mm major.

Cost. I get approximately 8000 pieces of once fired brass for $50 vs. $80-$100 per thousand for super brass. That means that I spend very little time picking up brass. Actually I spend none of my time picking up brass. However shooting super you will spend a good amount of time looking for those little dimes and if you go to a lost brass match say goodbye to $20-$30 dollars of brass. Considering over time what you will spend on ammo and reloading components the benefits of 9mm start to kick the snot out of super.

I don't know if the benefits of 9mm should make you want to go out and convert a super you already have, but for a new build I would very seriously take a look at 9mm. I was hesitant at first but I have had no troubles so far.

Good luck, Craig

[latewatch]

What Craig said. Consider this.

9mm Major

Brass $10

Bullets $50

Primers $15

Powder $20

$95 per 1000 rds

$190 2000 rds

$285 3000 rds

38SC

Brass $90

Bullets $50

Primers $15

Powder $20

$175 per 1000 rds

$350 2000 rds

$525 3000 rds

[eric nielsen]

9Major works. There are more powder choices than 38Super had just a few years ago. The cases themselves are very strong and as they mention above, very disposable.

The one issue you may run into is ejection of the spent cases. Low-mounted C-More and tube sights can be a problem if the 9x19 case is allowed to have its own way and eject anywhere from 5degrees to 90degrees out the side of the gun. Best advice is to pay a gunsmith with a proven track record of making that combination work. He will have to modify your ejector, ejection port, and extractor and have to know exactly what he's doing to get it right.

OR - Go with a more fool-proof combination like an offset scope mount or a slide-mounted sight. The only slide-mounted sight I can recommend is the 7MOA Docter sight tuned up by Beven Grams. It works.

[Harmon]

super comp is the best, 9mm is the cheapest..

If i were a pro shooter, i would go supercomp..

im not so 9mm would be the answer if i were building a new gun.

[Carlos]

"Best advice is to pay a gunsmith with a proven track record of making that combination work."

This is important: if you have a trusted STI/SV smith & he responds to your 9Major questions with: "I do not think 9mm Major works nor is it reliable" then what he is actually saying is: "I do not know how to build a reliable 9 Major gun." A look at the Nationals results proves that 9 Major CAN work in the STI/SV platform. Trick is to find a smith with the skill & experience with 9 Major.

As for brass, you are not allowed to pick it up at a match - at least not around here & not until after all the props are put away by which time I am ready to go home (not go ratting brass in the hot sun). Maybe my view will change once a sponsor decides to give me as much free .38 brass as I want, but that likely won't happen in this lifetime. 9mm v. 38 Super brass cost is NOT an issue for the rich. For the rest of us, it is a valid issue.

C.

[shred]

Well, I'm not rich, but I don't like to litter either. If you can deign to pick up your Super brass a few times the cost is the same as 9mm, the options will always be greater and safety margins larger, and everybody knows how to make a Super run now. That might be important for a newer shooter/loader. A new barrel is a few hundred $ either way, so it's not the end of the world if you get the wrong thing.

I'd love to see a designed 9-major powder, but the 'it'll come out soon' rumor has been around since last time 9-major was legal-- anybody have anything more concrete?

[Brazos Custom]

A look at the Nationals results proves that 9 Major CAN work in the STI/SV platform.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You might want to look harder at those results:

2 out of the top twenty used 9mm

7 out of the top 100

14 out of 218 total competitors

Those figures prove it can be done but is it the best setup - I don't think so.

[bobert1]

I am also thinking of going to the dark side and trying open. I shoot 9mm production now. I really don't want to get into reloading. Has there been any hints of some kind of store bought 9mm major ammo to avoid getting a dillon ?

[Harmon]

hirteberger l82 ball ammo.

its +P+ machinegun ammo..and if you dont get ridiculous with the barrel holes it will make major.

it can be had for pennys more than winchester white box.

[eric nielsen]

The Hirtenberger has some pretty hard primers. After I reseat them [carefully] they all go off in a Glock, but not before. Kinda defeats the purpose of buying factory ammo.

Available: HERE

Edited July 11, 2005 by eric nielsen

[bobert1]

hirteberger l82 ball ammo

Haven't found a source yet. Any suggestions ?

[ong45]

First question, would you use that cheap once fired 9mm brass in a major match? if not , then new 9mm isn't exactly cheap. Littering the range is not too cool where i come from, it gets pretty hard to brass and keep the bays looking good.

If you shoot and leave your brass on the range it would not take long for the percieved savings to lose it's impact.

I shoot quite a few lost brass matches a year and the most i have spent for brass ( 38 supercomp) is 500$ a year. In light of what it cost to travel to one match it is not a big concern.

Reloaders are by definiton cheap bastards (including me ) and i think this is a case of dubious cost savings and MAYBE as good a functioning gun.

That being said i have to admit i have been greatly tempted by 9mm open.

James

[vincent]

I am getting a new open gun built soon and the gunsmith I'm talking with said that both calibers will work. He recommended SVI tubes for 9mm.

However he recommended 38 SuperComp as the better caliber for what we have today. A friend just went through getting a new Open gun built and quite a few experienced (read Top 20) GM's said to build it in 38 SuperComp as well. Matt Burkett's latest blog entry also gives the nod to .38 Super/SuperComp. Bob L. of Brazos Custom weighed in on this thread. He knows a thing or two about building guns and shooting Open. All that advise in the same direction was enough for me. This will be my first Open gun so I'm going to stick with the tried and true. This is a very expensive game but the extra cost of 38SC brass isn't going to break my budget.

----

BTW, when I spoke to Rob Leatham about a year ago about his 9mm Major Open gun he said that he went to 9mm so he wouldn't have to reload for it. He shoots Winchester Ranger 127gr JHP +P+ ammunition and it makes major in his gun.

[.40AET]

I had my first open gun built last winter. I talked to a couple of local master shooters who had built 9-Major guns and were very happy with the results. There was enough positive feedback in this forum to seal the deal. The gun runs 100% and I have 8 good loads that I worked up easily. I do use the SV mags and they have been tuned and also run 100%. The gun served me well at the 2 major matches that I attended this summer and made 169pf at both.

If I was one of the top 20 shooters in the country, you couldn't convince me to give up the gun that took me there. The down side to the 9mm is case capacity. If you want to run a Hybrid/Tribrid barrel with 4-6 holes and ports you may have a hard time making major.

The good news is...if you build a 9-Major open gun, then it can be converted to a .38Super by any good gunsmith by reaming out the barrel.

As far as brass goes, I spent $260 and got 32,000 once fired rounds of 9mm. In the MD/PA area all that I shoot is lost brass matches locally. The setup crews want the brass after the match. When I went to Area8, they announced at the shooters meeting that the match was a lost brass match. They can have all of my brass that they want at this point. I even get a good laugh out of it now a days.

Once a year I buy 2,000 same headstamp once fired brass and it costs me 40 bucks. I would recommend this just for case capacity consistancy to eliminate ES as a problem at the chronograph.

Good luck.

[smokshwn]

Bob or harmongreer,

What objective performance characteristics do you see as the advantage to super over 9mm? I know there are alot of folks who are more comfortable with super but I am curious as to the objective specifics of the advantages they perceive.

Thanks, Craig

[eric nielsen]

The Super, TJ and Supercomp cases are 23mm long instead of 19mm. So:

-It's easier to load ammo that's the right OAL for the 1911, with any bullet you like.

-You get more bullet pull from the case.

-They tumble out of the gun differently. Slower and more consistent.

-More case capacity means lower chamber pressures for the same bullet velocity.

-Lower chamber pressure means you can port the barrel & still avoid troubles.

-More powder charge for the same velocity means better comp performance.

-They're easier to pick up and load into a press [if you don't have a casefeeder].

It's not that much of a difference. People have figured out the magazines and feeding, also the powder charges & how much porting is okay. The main issue is ejection of the spent cases. There's less room for error.

[smokshwn]

Eric,

Just playing a little devils advocate so:

I was told ejection was actually in favor of the nine as there was "less brass to fit through the hole". This was from a gunsmith who builds either caliber you want.

What is the right OAL for a 1911, mine feeds everything from 1.13-1.25?

Take care, Craig

[Jake Di Vita]

I currently shoot 9 Major....if I had to do it all over again I would go 38 just for the reliablity issues that 9 Major presents.

[J.L. Hardy]

Jake, When the gun is set up right and the mags are set up right and ammo is right there are no reliability issues. Good shooting, J.L. Hardy

[ong45]

40AET Posted Today, 11:20 AM

 

If I was one of the top 20 shooters in the country, you couldn't convince me to give up the gun that took me there. The down side to the 9mm is case capacity. If you want to run a Hybrid/Tribrid barrel with 4-6 holes and ports you may have a hard time making major.

I am pretty resistent to change when i find something that works, thus i am thankful that a lot of you guys are going through the growing pains and load development for major 9. Blazing the trail so to speak

James

[PaulW]

I agree with J.L. If you know what your doing you can get it to run right. I have had both super and 9 and niether was a problem at all to get to run right 100%.

[rtr]

It is clearly cheaper to shoot major 9 because of the cheaper brass.

The ONLY concern I have with major 9 (been shooting it for almost a year) is that if I use brass too many times it may blow, but that's an easy problem to fix by not reloading your brass too many times.

Major 9 and .38 super guns can be made to shoot virtually identically. When made by the right gunsmith with properly tuned mags major 9 is JUST as reliable as .38 super. The only problem is there are fewer gunsmiths who know how to build major 9 guns, but it's easy to find one who does.

All this BS about Joe Blow says .38 super is better, this gunsmiths says .38 super is better, etc. is just hot air. The bottom line is that when built properly both major 9 and .38 super work, if you don't mind paying extra for brass then buy a .38 super, otherwise find a competent gunsmith to build a major 9 gun.