Cuz Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Can someone provide a guess as to where my proposed load would be on the Power Factor scale? I'm using a 180gr Montana Gold JHP, 4.5 gr. TiteGroup powder with an oal of 1.158. I'm shooting it in a stock Para P16-40 LDA Limited. I'm just looking for opinions, not facts. I don't have a Chrono, and the current holdup on Pact MK1vs means I won't have one for a little while. Besides, I want to wait for the new PACT MIV XP to come out before purchasing. Does anyone have any info on it? Thanks a bunch, -Cuz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 I'll bet it shoots between 160 and 168PF depending on the actual dia. of your bore. OK for local matches and practice. You need to chrono before a major match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 You asked for a guess. Here it is. I think you will be just a little short. You really want to be around 168 or 170 PF just to be sure. Every 5in gun I have cronoed took 4.7 to 4.9 to make that.-----Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 I also don't think you make it. HOWEVER developing loads for .40 major can be a lil "tricky" without a chrono (not to mention dangerous), you realy should get one CED, Pact, whatever, beg borrow or swipe one but you really need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 You asked for a guess. Here it is. I think you will be just a little short. You really want to be around 168 or 170 PF just to be sure. Every 5in gun I have cronoed took 4.7 to 4.9 to make that.-----Larry <{POST_SNAPBACK}> +1 My 5" Edge took 4.9 of Titegroup at 1.190 oal to get 169pf. 4.5 is more like a load for a 6" barrel. I'd say bump it up to 4.8 with your current oal and you "should" be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Rufus, right on the money. With 4.5 at 1.170 my 6in makes 171.-----Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Just to stirr the pot a bit... 4.5 gr @ 1.190" in my 5" SV makes 175 PF with Star 180 JHP's. If you don't have a chrono, make sure you're taking a look at your primers after firing. If they are flattened, you need to back off. Once you get your chrono, you may still need to back off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 It is interesting to see the different results. My gun (STI with Briley top end) shooting 5 gr TG w/MG 180 FMJ at 1.15" crono'ed 171 at A6 and A4. My son's gun (stock STI Edge) Crono's a little over 180 with the same load. The only difference I can see is that his gun is newer <5K rnds and mine is older with >50K rounds. This shows how two quite similar guns can have quite different results with the same load. Cuz, I think your load is going to come up short. you really need to find someone with a chrono before you have to go to a match where they have one!!!!!! FWIW dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuildSF4 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 I used 4.7 grains of TG with 180 Zero JHP in 5" Edge at OAL 1.180 PF = 185. Would test your load over a chrono to see what power factor you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 I'll bet it shoots between 160 and 168PF depending on the actual dia. of your bore. OK for local matches and practice. You need to chrono before a major match. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Eric, Thanks for the input. Right now all I'm doing is practicing and learning about shooting and loading the .40. I figure I'm probably a good six months from shooting this in any local matches where there are NO chrono's. Just plate shoots and such. Very low key. I'm just shooting it for fun and practice. I don't expect I'll ever shoot at a match where my loads actually get chrono'd so I don't really need to buy one. I just like to have some idea what the power factor range is for the load I'm shooting. That way when I read all the posts on this forum about what everyone else is doing I can go to the range and try it myself. Then, I just like knowing that I'm shooting a similar PF range as the rest of you guys. For that reason I will purchase a timer/chrono just to play with more than anything else. I'm just a hack who likes to shoot for fun, but doesn't really have any where near the amount of free time to ever get any good at it. But I'm not going to let that stop me from trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 I also don't think you make it. HOWEVER developing loads for .40 major can be a lil "tricky" without a chrono (not to mention dangerous), you realy should get one CED, Pact, whatever, beg borrow or swipe one but you really need it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Crusher, While a chrono is important for match shooting I'm not convinced it's required just for casual plinking. I think I did a good job eliminating most of the "danger" from the equation by first purchasing a few different load books to review. Then I spent about a week scouring this forum cutting and pasting everyone's recipe's for the .40 that I could find. I used all of this data combined with the load books to finally decide on TiteGroup Powder and the Montana Gold 180gr JHP. Then I once again searched thru my data from this forum and pulled everything relating to TG powder and the 180gr JHP. from going over all that I initially started with loads down around the 4.2gr range and experimented up as high as 4.9gr with a long OAL which I "thought" would keep things relatively safe. My Para is relatively new and in good condition so I don't think I was doing anything dangerous. I think that if I proceed slowly and double and triple check my figures and data that I can proceed safely. The only reason I settled on the 4.5gr is because it tends to shoot comfortably and accurately. I still have some concerns about the oal. It seems most of you are really loading pretty long. I may stretch it out a bit and see if it makes a difference, but frankly I'm not sure what I'm gaining be extending the oal? If it's feeding reliability I've already got that (I think). If it's reduced pressure which increases safety then I'm all for trying it. How long is too long? When it stops feeding reliably? -Cuz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 Just to stirr the pot a bit...4.5 gr @ 1.190" in my 5" SV makes 175 PF with Star 180 JHP's. If you don't have a chrono, make sure you're taking a look at your primers after firing. If they are flattened, you need to back off. Once you get your chrono, you may still need to back off. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> BigDave, I don't understand what you mean by flattened? Are you looking at the primers from the outside of the case or the primer inside the case? When you say I may need to back off are you talking about the amount of powder or something about the primers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Cuz, if your pistol is feeding 100% there really is no need to go longer with the loads you are useing.If you are just plinkin&playing the load you have is good. If you compete and want to shoot major you need to chrono and proably punch it up a little. Til then just have fun, your load is safe.-----Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 Thanks to everyone for your input. I was guessing my load was going to be borderline Major and it appears as though most of you seem to agree. I think I will leave it alone for now because It should be safe to shoot for fun and practice. Eventually I will get a chrono and will then check it. For now, I mostly shoot alone indoors so borrowing one is not an option. I would like to ask one more question. If I keep my load at 4.5gr TG with a 180gr MG JHP but extend the oal how does that affect the Power Factor? I'm guessing that as I extend the OAL from 1.158 out all the way to lets say 1.20 that the pressure will go down and also the Power Factor will go down. Can some of you please confirm this for me? Thanks a bunch for all the replies, I really do appreciate them. -Cuz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 Cuz, if your pistol is feeding 100% there really is no need to go longer with the loads you are useing.If you are just plinkin&playing the load you have is good. If you compete and want to shoot major you need to chrono and proably punch it up a little. Til then just have fun, your load is safe.-----Larry <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks lkytx, That's what I wanted to know, that my load was safe and somewhere in the near vicinity of being Major. Appreciate it. -Cuz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuildSF4 Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Thanks to everyone for your input. I was guessing my load was going to be borderline Major and it appears as though most of you seem to agree. I think I will leave it alone for now because It should be safe to shoot for fun and practice. Eventually I will get a chrono and will then check it. For now, I mostly shoot alone indoors so borrowing one is not an option. I would like to ask one more question. If I keep my load at 4.5gr TG with a 180gr MG JHP but extend the oal how does that affect the Power Factor? I'm guessing that as I extend the OAL from 1.158 out all the way to lets say 1.20 that the pressure will go down and also the Power Factor will go down. Can some of you please confirm this for me?Thanks a bunch for all the replies, I really do appreciate them. -Cuz. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Longer OAL will reduce the chamber pressure as long as the bullet is not touching the lands. It should velocity some also, which would lower the PF, but it does not always seem to do so. Just what I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 - If your gun is running 100%, then leave the OAL alone. - If you don't have to make a certain (Major) power factor for the matches that you shoot, then don't go up any at all (I'd back off some, minor loads with TG feel great.) - If you aren't sure what flattened primers are, then found out. They are a sign of over-pressure. You need to learn to recognize signs of pressure if you are going to be reloading...especially 40...even more so at Major velocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted July 10, 2005 Author Share Posted July 10, 2005 - If your gun is running 100%, then leave the OAL alone.- If you don't have to make a certain (Major) power factor for the matches that you shoot, then don't go up any at all (I'd back off some, minor loads with TG feel great.) - If you aren't sure what flattened primers are, then found out. They are a sign of over-pressure. You need to learn to recognize signs of pressure if you are going to be reloading...especially 40...even more so at Major velocity. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Flexmoney, I just kicked the load back to 4.3 gr and loaded up 100 rounds to try tomorrow. That should increase both the safety margin and comfort level until I actually "need" to make major. Thanks for the info. Now, how can I find out more about flattened primers? Never mind, I already know. I'm sure it's here somewhere, so back to the keyword search screen I go.... -Cuz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 loaded short for a glock and fired out of a short glock model 22 barrel, 4.3 grains tg made 172 power factor a the arkansas section match. load was loaded to 1.145. primer was federal small pistol. this was out of the KKM barrel...glock barrel shoots a bit faster. most paras i have seen with the factory barrel shoot slower than other 5 inch guns...you would really have to chrono to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddrod Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 My Para 16-40 Limited with stock barrel takes TG 4.8g @ 1.155 with that bullet to get 169 PF for what it is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted July 13, 2005 Author Share Posted July 13, 2005 My Para 16-40 Limited with stock barrel takes TG 4.8g @ 1.155 with that bullet to get 169 PF for what it is worth. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for the info. For now I'm going to stick with 4.3gr TG and extend the oal to 1.165 which makes for a nice Minor load. I have no requirement to make Major so I'm not going to. -Cuz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kline Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I just picking up my G24 and was wanting to get load data with Titegroup for it. I see a large variety of loads though. I'll probably start at 4.2 with OAL 1.135 and see where its at. Harmon got a pretty hot load with 4.3 of TG with the shorter barrel of a G22. Whatcha think guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipscron2000 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I know that a buddy of mine uses 3.8 of TG for minor and 4.8 of TG for major both with a 180 gr bullet. OAL is 1.15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Kevin, With the longer Glock barrel in the G24, I would guess that you can get to Major with around 4.0g of TG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 I just picking up my G24 and was wanting to get load data with Titegroup for it. I see a large variety of loads though. I'll probably start at 4.2 with OAL 1.135 and see where its at. Harmon got a pretty hot load with 4.3 of TG with the shorter barrel of a G22. Whatcha think guys? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> oddly enough my KKM tube chronoes faster than the glock barrel. Also im using Federal 200 primers...they are good for little extra speed, even over WSR. also were only talking about 1/2 of an inch of barrel between your 1911s and my glock...its not that much shorter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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