Snausages32 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Hello, I've been reading posts from this forum for months, but finally created an account to ask a question. I've been shooting for years, but now I'd like to try 3-gun, and possibly USPSA. The only AR that I own is a Colt SOCOM II, and I love it, but it isn't exactly built for these competitions, and I fully plan on leaving it 100% factory. After doing a fair amount of research, I've put together a build list, and if someone could give it a look over to make sure I'm not being stupid - it's always appreciated. Upper / Lower - Battle Arms Development light weight receiver set Handguard - TBD - leaning towards 13" solo ultra lite keymod Raptor charging handle JP LMOS bcg stretch 16 fluted barrel (using included gas block/tube) muzzle device - either the lantac dragon, or something - totally open to suggestions ergo grip timney competition 3lb trigger (curved) mission first tactical minimalist stock basic parts kit mil-spec buffer tube carbine buffer - is that the right one for this setup? probably a vortex red dot (sparc ar?) I'm planning on shooting factory - everything else I have is geared that way. Thoughts? I really appreciate the help here! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 You've got a fine list put together. I'd add an adjustable gas block and call it a day. The high end receiver set is bad ass but won't add anything to performance, you could save a lot of money there if you wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snausages32 Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 Any reason with the adjustable gas block? Also, will a 13" handguard cover the block on an intermediate port length? I've always subscribed to the theory that it's faster, easier, and cheaper to do things right the first time. I'd rather get the receiver set I want now, than kick myself a year or 2 later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balwolley Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) I second everything tony said, especially the adjustable gas block if you're running a low mass carrier. I will add to this, maybe get yourself a variable optic, maybe a 1-6 or 1-8. They can be bad for just a little bit more cash, but will probably be more versatile for ya.. muzzle brake, I use the Jerry miculek comp by DPMS, it's $30. Another decent option for a GREAT price right now is the "NADA" brake/comp over at primary arms. Black Friday deal it's going for $20 .. can't beat the price.! hand guard, I like the 15" models myself. I doubt you'd notice the "extra weight" since it'd be a fraction of an ounce but gives you just a hair more real estate for your hands. I have long arms and I like getting way out there.. Edited November 19, 2017 by Balwolley Added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) 13" will be 3/4" ish past the GB. The adjustable GB is important if you want to realize the benefits of a low mass system. Without it you'll probably be overgassed with any factory ammo and recoil might actually be worse than a properly balanced full mass system. And if you want cool receivers go for it, I just wanted to make it clear that it doesn't gain you any improvement. Edited November 19, 2017 by TonytheTiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snausages32 Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 Thanks for the info. My only hesitation with the adjustable gas block is that I've never messed with one before... but that's what we have youtube for. What about the actual buffer? Will the 3oz carbine one be best for something like this? Or should I get a heavier one? The only one I've ever shot with is a H2, so I really don't have a way to compare the felt/noticed difference. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 The fun thing about buffers is they're cheap. You'll really have to experiment a bit to find out what feels best with your setup and ammo. I've always taken the weights out and eventually ended up with the Taccom plastic buffers. But 99% of my shooting is with lighter loads, your situation may be different. And if you can put together a rifle you'll be just fine tuning a gas block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieD Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 23 minutes ago, Snausages32 said: Thanks for the info. My only hesitation with the adjustable gas block is that I've never messed with one before... but that's what we have youtube for. What about the actual buffer? Will the 3oz carbine one be best for something like this? Or should I get a heavier one? The only one I've ever shot with is a H2, so I really don't have a way to compare the felt/noticed difference. Thanks! Adjustable gas is a must, and very easy to tune. If you're running adjustable gas, then less weight in buffer is better. I always go with a handguards that covers the majority of the barrel. It gives you more options on supporting the rifle on barricades and other props. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snausages32 Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 Is there any specific gas block you'd recommend? The one that comes with the strech 16 barrel is a .750 low profile block. Would I still be able to use the tube that comes with it? Or would I need a new one also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tt350z Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 I’m running an Odin Works adjustable. Has nice detent adjustment and it’s not to expensive. I really wish they made them in .936 so I could use one with the BSF carbon fiber barrel I purchased. Your gas tube will work, nothing different about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieD Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 10 hours ago, Snausages32 said: Is there any specific gas block you'd recommend? The one that comes with the strech 16 barrel is a .750 low profile block. Would I still be able to use the tube that comes with it? Or would I need a new one also? JP is my favorite that i’ve used, not sure if it will fit under the SLR hanguard with a little Dremel work. I used a SLR gas block on a stretch 16 with a 15” SLR handguard that worked well, but you will need to get a longer Allen wrench to adjust it. The Odin looks pretty good. I just bought a seekins for my next build because I wanted to try one w/o a detent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snausages32 Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 Which is the preferred method then, clamp on or screw on? I'm looking at the SLR, and they have both options. Sorry, just super new to gas blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieD Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 8 hours ago, Snausages32 said: Which is the preferred method then, clamp on or screw on? I'm looking at the SLR, and they have both options. Sorry, just super new to gas blocks. I don’t recall if the stretch 16 barrelnis dimpled, but I used a clamp on. I really don’t think one is any better than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snausages32 Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 If it isn't dimpled, then is the clamp the only option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 The Stretch16 is not dimpled but you can still use either type of GB. I've had adjustable gas blocks ranging from $25-110 and they all do the same thing, including freezing up and turning into non adjustable gas blocks. These days I just buy the cheap JoeBobs blocks and if they ever freeze up I'll just toss it and buy another if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertTortoise Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) The sparc is a good red dot, and that’s what I started with. I found that I did want some magnification though. It’s really frustrating to be missing a target just because you can’t see the target (for example a plate rack at 100 yards, covered up by shadows from trees) so I’d probably recommend starting with one of the affordable 1x6 scopes. I don’t think you really need anything different for the shotgun or pistol in tac optics vs factory to be competitive. Edited November 20, 2017 by DesertTortoise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) Or just keep things simple and affordable, like an Aero Precision built Wylde upper/lower, stock non-adjustable gas, normal BCG, maybe throw a JP captured spring buffer in and call it done until you can discern what you're doing. Build a $8-900 all-around nice rifle, throw a $350 Vortex Strike Eagle and $100 Aero mount... and be competitive, have fun without debt. Shoot that for your first dozen matches and then if you're stomping butts then you'll have a better idea of what you want for your situation since your choices will change once you actually shoot. Your new shooting buddies will influence you a lot, sometimes there are local manufacturers you want to support, etc. Saving that last pound and reducing the recoil 10% costs a lot more time and money. And trying to recoup your investment on resale is a joke, you won't. Then if 3G is just an occasional fun thing you'll still have a great all-around unfussy rifle to shoot that you haven't over invested in. And you'll probably get rid of the Colt once you shoot something nicer. A gun described above can pretty much do everything you need up, do home defense and hunt, etc. Heck even if you build out an expensive race gun you'll still want this for back up and general life. Armalite and some others are making sweet 3G rifles that aren't crazy expensive either. Do you really want to be the newbie that shows up with a $3000 rifle and finishes last? Cause it's all good but that happens more often than not. FWIW I'd spend more on the shotgun and pistol than the rifle in most cases, bigger rewards in performance and more versatile tools for the dollar. Dropping $2K on a Benelli M2 is actually more logical than a fancy AR. Edited November 20, 2017 by Frankly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoKimberDave Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I love factory division. Less of an equipment race. I used a Vortex 1X prism scope and it worked great. I found it better for shots over 150 as it has a crisp etched center dot. I also used a carbine gas 12.5" with an H2 and Templar brake and it shot super flat. A good brake is 90% of it, imo. However, I just built a Lightweight 14" middy with a low mass system and it's so choice. Man its a real sweety. The low mass stuff really smooths the pulse out and makes it really pleasant feeling. And I used similar parts as my 18" practical rifle, so that's nice. Both have the .625 clamp on SLR's with cheap AIM LW BCG's and the Taccom buffers and Sprinco -10% springs. Pretty nice setup for not a lot of money. I'd do JP bcgs and SCS is money were no object. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClangClang Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 On 11/18/2017 at 10:07 PM, Snausages32 said: I'd rather get the receiver set I want now, than kick myself a year or 2 later A year from now, the receiver set you wanted is going to look like crap with dings, dents, and scrapes from slamming into barricades, getting chucked into dump barrels, and going prone on gravel. Competition guns are tools which get rode hard and put away wet. Save the fancy billet receivers for a trophy gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snausages32 Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 That receiver set isn't for aesthetics... but it's the lightest one I found, and it's built very strong as well. There have been some very good points brought up here. It would make the most sense to just use my Colt with my Aimpoint for a while and then go from there... but if everything made sense, what would be any fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertTortoise Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 it is always sound advice though to shoot a few matches it’s the stuff you have before buying new. I think the two schools of thought are just to use what you have until it’s holding you back (incremental) or buy once cry once. By trying a few matches you’ll have a better idea what you really want with either approach. That being said, I think you have a pretty good list of ideas going already. If I assembled my 3 gun rifle again it would probably be a pound or two lighter and cost a lot more— but the weight isn’t holding me back so that’s the approach I take. What holds me back is a lack of consistent performance due my just shooting matches and never practicing. I think all the fancy stuff on a rifle gets you a 5-10% boost in performance and most of that is from the trigger and the muzzle brake. The only thing is I don’t think buy once cry once actually exists if you like to tinker Also, since you are thinking about it, USPSA is very complimentary to 3 gun as you can learn match safety, stage planning and running the pistol. 3 gun has a steep learning curve due to the more complex stages and technical aspects of learning three different weapons. Steel challenge is also great for learning to make fast shots and transitions (with a .22 rifle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabes Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 On 11/18/2017 at 7:58 PM, TonytheTiger said: You've got a fine list put together. I'd add an adjustable gas block and call it a day. The high end receiver set is bad ass but won't add anything to performance, you could save a lot of money there if you wanted to. +1 Also, I use a standard weight buffer in my 3 gun rifle. With the LMOS and adjustable gas block, you really don't need a heavier buffer. You will notice smoother operation if you use the JP Polished buffer spring though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snausages32 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 Ok, as an update... I pulled the trigger on this one (sorry, had to say it that way). I read through the advice, and decided while what I had listed was more than sufficient, I decided to still go through with a build, but I toned it down some - but kept a few things that I wanted. Got the Aero precision upper (no forward assist) and lower ALG 15" v2 ergo handguard balistic advantage 16" 223 wylde hanson stainless barrel + the included gas block kept the mil spec buffer tube with carbine buffer + mission first tactical stock kept the lantac dragon kept the timney 3lb trigger kept the ergo grip kept the raptor charging handle primary arms micro red dot fortis 1/3 dot mount tom's tactical nickel boron exo BCG basic parts kit Priced it out at just under $1600, plus black friday and some great discounts at optics planet, and it came in at under $1200 - and it should be just under / right at 6.5 pounds completed. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlvrDragon50 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Pretty similar to my build! Should shoot great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTJer Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) I shouldn’t have looked at that total. Any reason you went with no forward assist? I’m trying to figure out my upper. Edited November 28, 2017 by CTJer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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