Appropriate loads for a particular recoil spring weight.

[USSR]

Guys,

I am having a Kart Xact NM barrel installed on my Series 70 Gold Cup. What I would like to pick your brains for is this. I want somewhat mild loads such as are used in Bullseye competition, although I won't be using it for such. I will be using a 200gr H&G 68 clone at an OAL of 1.250" and have the following powders: Bullseye, 700X, Solo 1000, AA#2, and W231. I have the following weight springs: 16#, 14#, 12#, and 10#. Can someone please give me approximate charge weights that are suitable for a particular weight recoil spring? Thanks in advance for your reply.

Don

USSR

 

 

NRA Classification : Marksman
Posts : 52
Join date : 2017-07-14
Age : 67
Location : Finger Lakes Region of NY

 

 

[USSR]

So, nobody here loads their own ammo for a 1911 and uses a less than stock recoil spring?

 

Don

[Steve RA]

Try the 12# and 14# and see which feels the best.  Another rough way to tell is by how far the empty case is ejected.  You don't want them to "dribble" out, nor do you want them to land in the next County over.  Someplace in the area of 5' to 6' will suffice.

[Eureka1911]

Also keep in mind that the "recoil" spring is really only there to return the slide to battery.

 

I shoot USPSA using loads the chrono at 750fps with a 230 grain bullet. I use a 14# spring. No issues at all.

 

Good article

http://rangehot.com/recoil-1911/

[rowdyb]

Most people work at it the opposite direction from you, that's why you're not getting many replies. Most people develop a load first and then pick the recoil spring they like.

 

I use a 200gr jhp making 170pf and use a 15# recoil spring fwiw.

Edited September 21, 2017 by rowdyb

[USSR]

Thanks guys.   I am going to get some WST, as from what I've read, it's THE powder for .45 ACP.   So, with 200gr LSWC loads using 3.8gr, 4.0gr, and 4.2gr of WST, 12# or 14# spring?

 

Don

[TimH]

I have a couple 1911's with standard weight slides that I run 14# recoil springs in with 173PF loads

 

However, my current 1911 (an Atlas custom) has a much lighter slide weight and I use an 11lb recoil spring with the same ammo

[zzt]

For a bullseye load of 200gr at 731fps I use a 14lb recoil spring.  I have a slide mounted reflex sight.  If you are going to use a tube sight like the UltraDot, you will have to go to 12lb or lower depending on the diameteer of the tube and the weight of the mounts.

 

My Kart Xact fir barrels do not like 1.250" OAL.  The do fine at 1.240".

[USSR]

Thanks for the info, guys.   Looks like I'm going to have to play around with the 12# and 14# spring and see what works best.   Oh, picked up the WST powder today - 8# for $125.   Feeling real good about that.

 

Don

[levellinebrad]

I developed my load for accuracy and then chose the spring. I wanted a spring weight that would return the gun to my point of aim, not dip below it. I went to the range and did double taps with different spring weights and finally settled on a 12lb spring but I have one load that makes 176pf and I swap in a 14lb spring. My normal load is making 170pf

[bulm540]

Try some clays, you will like it. Could not remember the load I was using before. 

[Richard Bumpus]

My accuracy load is 4.1 grains WST behind a 200grain swc for the long line and 4.0 grains WST behind a 185 grain swc for the short line.

[USSR]

8 hours ago, Richard Bumpus said:

My accuracy load is 4.1 grains WST behind a 200grain swc for the long line and 4.0 grains WST behind a 185 grain swc for the short line.

Thanks Richard.   And what weight recoil spring are you using with those loads?

 

Don

[jwhittin]

Another thought. Can you get a Springco recoil management guide rod? They are $100. I personally like them.  I run both 200 gn and 185 gn RNFP with a 12 lb recoil spring.  Just a thought.

[USSR]

13 hours ago, jwhittin said:

Another thought. Can you get a Springco recoil management guide rod? They are $100. I personally like them.  I run both 200 gn and 185 gn RNFP with a 12 lb recoil spring.  Just a thought.

 

What's your load data with those RNFP's, jwhittin?

 

Don

[BASE772]

Grip also plays a part in this as well. Strong vs weak grip. Kind of like limp wristing. 

[jwhittin]

For 200 gn I use 5.3 gn of Titegroup and 185 is 5.7 gn of Titegroup.  What's more important is your STD.  To ensure you meet PF, start by adding 2 times your STD to the velocity required to meet power factor for your bullet weight.  Go up from there as needed to optimize accuracy or increase margin.  My STD is consistently 15 fps for these loads so I add 30 fps to the velocity needed to meet PF.  I don't bother to calculate the PF. 

[jwhittin]

I reread your post.  Not sure what your application is but as Rowdy said, develop the load then optimize function and feel with spring weight. 

[USSR]

Power Factor is not an issue.   Loads are for target shooting at my personal range.   Now that I have WST powder, between that and BE, I will be developing loads in the 3.5gr - 4.2gr range with the #68 bullets.   Also picked up a couple more recoil springs, so will have 10#, 11#, 12#, 13#, and 14# available to me.   Guess I will just have to play around with the various spring weights.

 

Don

[zzt]

While you are at it, try some variable rate springs.  They certainly do feel different.

[191138sc]

On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 6:03 AM, Steve RA said:

Try the 12# and 14# and see which feels the best.  Another rough way to tell is by how far the empty case is ejected.  You don't want them to "dribble" out, nor do you want them to land in the next County over.  Someplace in the area of 5' to 6' will suffice

Go to the powder mfg. web site and they will give you charge weights for various bullet weight. Also, have someone video you shooting with spring weights in the 12 to 14 lb range as zzt suggested. Choose a spring weight that prevents the muzzle from dipping below your sight line. Good luck.

[USSR]

22 hours ago, zzt said:

While you are at it, try some variable rate springs.  They certainly do feel different.

So, what's the deal with the variable rate springs?   How do they differ?   The 14# springs I bought are variable rate, all the others are not.

 

Don

[Mountbkr]

1. What is the difference between conventional and variable recoil springs?

The difference is both physical and operational. With a conventional spring, all the coils are spaced equally apart, except for the closed ends. In a variable recoil spring the space varies between coils with less space between coils at one end and more space between coils at the other end.

The way the two springs store energy is also different. For example if a conventional recoil spring is compressed 1/2", it might store 1 pound of energy. For every additional 1/2" this spring is compressed it would then store 1 additional pound of energy. When a variable recoil spring is compressed 1/2", it might store 1/4 pound of energy. The next half inch of compression might store 1/2 pound, the next half inch might store 3/4 pound and so on. In other words, a conventional spring stores energy on a straight line and a variable spring stores energy on a curve. If both springs are rated at 16 pounds, they will both store 16 pounds when compressed to the same working length, but the way they get to 16 pounds is different.

[Steve RA]

For whatever it's worth, I think the variable rate springs work better.  They seem to be easier to regain sight picture, but try both types as everyone differs in the way they grasp the gun.

[zzt]

I'll add to what Mountbkr said by saying a variable rate spring allows the barrel to unlock sooner.  You can feel the spring compression at the end of the stroke.  The slide shoots forward, strips a round and feeds (and is slowed by that process) and closes softer.

 

How it feels has a lot to do with the caliber and the ammo used.  For instance, on a 22LR I can barely tell the difference between variable and constant rate springs.  On a 45 the difference is huge.  When switching from one to the other it will feel 'funny' for a while.  You can get used to anything, so it is not a big deal.    My goal is to get the sights to settle as quickly as possible, so I pick the spring that allows that, as long as it is not harmful to the pistol.