Action Pistol Rules Committee

[Action Pistolero]

I received a letter today that said that my services were no longer required on the Action Pistol Committee. I guess I ruffled a few feathers. The NRA is apparently hell bent on discussing the future of our sport in secret. I haven't been able to reach Doug so I don't know where he stands.

Since I was on the committee, I felt that I should hold back discussing some of my personal opinions on the future of Action Pistol. Now that this is no longer the case I will say this. In my opinion, the NRA needs to get out of Action Pistol. All they are doing is driving away more and more of our shooters. Mr. Bianchi needs to know how some of us feel about this and see if we can get his blessing on moving it away from NRA.

Maybe I'm just nuts. Action Pistol shooting for me used to be a lot of fun. It was all that I wanted to do. Now it's more about seeing friends than the shooting.

[BigDave]

Who decided that you were no longer on the committee? What the hell is going on with these people?

[Action Pistolero]

Dave,

The Chairman picks the members so I would assume it was him.

[SRT Driver]

Kevin,

Thanks for your efforts.

How cool would it be if the inagural "ICASE HillBilly Cup" draws more shooters and pays back more than Bianchi!

That would send a very strong message.

[Alan550]

A few interesting statistics:

From 2000 through 2002, there were 6 "Action Pistol Committee" members. Phillip Hemphill was the chairman, and the only AP shooter on the list. (Ollie North was on it then too!)

In 2003, the number went down to 5, and Rudy came on as Secretary, dropping Ollie and one other member, but keeping Phil as Chairman. Still only 1 AP shooter in the bunch, but at least he was the chairman of the committee.

For the 2004 committee, they had 8 members with Phil as Chairman until the uproar over taking away our prone came up. He resigned just prior to the Cup last year. There were 3 shooters on that committee that took away the prone, 4 NRA Board members + Rudy as Sec. again. The prone went away at the suggestion of the 4 "Board" members, as I understand it. The "shooters" were outnumbered and "outgunned".

This year there were 9 members including Rudy as Sec, and 3 shooters, one of whom had been there when the prone was taken away. The Chairmanship was given to an NRA Board member who is NOT an action shooter. We got back part of the prone shooting along with a threat of taking away Barricade wings. Then at the Cup and shortly thereafter, we were told there is a minimum trigger-pull coming. When the "shooters" on the committee balked at that idea, even suggesting a 1 lb. rule, they were told that a 1 lb. trigger suggestion wouldn't be entertained at all, so the higher rating will be carried to the main NRA Rules Committee.

Since the sport isn't about the shooters, but the money, it looks like AP shooting as we knew it just "rode over the hill into the sunset"!

As a Bianchi Cup shooter for 7 of the last 8 years, I've seen only the most recent slide in participation, but like Kevin it was all I wanted to do. Now I run what is probably the largest monthly match east of the Miss. river, as we average over 20 shooters, even in the heat of summer. We're bound by contract, until the October match, to play by NRA rules. After that, for next year, we're going to the ICASE rules ( 1997 NRA book) and the NRA will not be sanctioning our matches, nor receiving the funds that they do now from our shoots. I will take great pleasure in e-mailing the NRA with the results of our matches next year, giving them the numbers of participants, which I expect to grow as it has in the last year.

It's been fun, but the inmates are running the asylum now, so it's time to play in another yard. When 3 of the top AP shooters in the country can't get us back on track, we've lost the battle and the war.

{soap-box mode off}

I hope someone comes along to take this sport over from the NRA and brings it back to close to the greatness that it once had!

Alan~^~

[BigDave]

Who decides who the chairman of AP is? Does anyone have contact info for that?

[Action Pistolero]

I would assume that the rules committee chooses the chairman. There are no AP shooters on the board of directors so there is no hope of that.

SRT,

I wish we could get to the point where we could pay out as much as Bianchi. I have about 15 signed up as of now for each match. That is better than last year at this time. We had 38 at the regional and 33 at the state. Most of the entries didn't come until Sep.

So far I haven't heard anything from the Indianna crowd. I understand that you are between jobs but the rest had indicated an interest. Big Dave?

[Kimberkid]

Kevin,

Just as the others said, thank you so much for your diligent service. It seems the perfect irony though, I think they will see in the end that keeping you was less trouble than kicking you out. One might think about putting together a petition of people boycotting the Cup next year. I understand how everyone doesnt like that idea because we all go to the Cup every year and dont want to miss a year. However, if boycotting one year incurs changes for the next 20, wont it be worth it? I also dont think it will be too tough to draw more people to the HBC than the BC. I think if the word got spread a little more, plenty of people would be missing from next years Cup. How funny would it be to see 50 people at the BC next year, which I dont think is impossible. One might also want to think about forwarding this alleged petition to Safariland, Bianchi International, Sierra etc.... letting them know the situation. No company is gonna sponsor a match that only draws shooters they already sponsor.

We all shot the Cup because it was the best AP match in the world. Now what do we do when that isnt the case anymore.

BTW, I'll be in Hillbillyville just as soon as ya'll start ICASE matches. I was just about to turn my Cup gun into a steel gun as it is now Bianchi illegal, but today I regain hope.

[BigDave]

I just got off of the phone with Rudy (cell phone). For those who want to know, the AP Committee chairman's name is Dwitght VanHorn of Idaho. If anyone has a program with this guy's contact info, can we get it posted here? I'd really like to send a letter.

Here's a kicker: Rudy didn't know that Kevin was no longer on the committtee. Not until I told him.

I talked at length with Rudy about the things we discuss here, and I think I made it very clear that we're upset. He told me that the NRA's general counsul is the one who came knocking on the door about the trigger pull issue, basically stating "what's a safe trigger? can you put a number on it? every other NRA discipline has a number." We've kicked that can up and down here for sure, we all know that. I told him is they are asking for trouble if they put a number on it; we're setting ourselves up for failure. I gave him the example that USPSA doesn't have a trigger pull issue and puts 1000's more rounds down range than AP does, month-to-month.

Anyway, it was good to vent, but I'm not sure it did a bit of good. I closed the call by saying that I don't think the committee has the first idea of what the competitors are thinking and feeling about the state of AP. I told him that people are talking, wishing that NRA would get their hands out of AP and turn it over to someone else. That there is talk of setting up other organizations to shoot AP outside of the NRA. That long time competitors have put their guns up over the rash of rule changes. That the sport has gotten away from John Bianchi's original intention.

Rudy then asked me what my trigger weight was. I said 3.5. He said well, you could have it at 2.0 if the rule passed. I said that wasn't the point. I don't shoot Open, but I sure as hell don't want barridade wings to go away. The point is that it is a they're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist and hasn't existed. And, at the same time, they're killing the sport.

[Flexmoney]

One might think about putting together a petition of people boycotting the Cup next year. I understand how everyone doesnt like that idea because we all go to the Cup every year and dont want to miss a year. However, if boycotting one year incurs changes for the next 20, wont it be worth it?

Likely so. I have a feeling that it will be hard to really get guys to boycott the match...especially the top shooters (who are chasing the perfect score).

I understand that some Japanese workers...instead of going on strike...will all wear a black armband to show their displeasure and raise awareness of the issues. Something like that might go over?

...my two cents worth.

[BigDave]

I am all about peacefull protest. After I got off of the phone with Rudy, I thought about getting a shirt with "Get the NRA out of Action Pistol" printed across the back and wearing it next year at the Cup. I'd like to think I have the cojones to do that.

[Greg in VA]

Not happy about this at all..............Kevin, have you received my entry for the regional and State yet?

Greg in Va

[Action Pistolero]

First of all, thanks guys for your vote of confidence.

I did talk to Doug today and he is still on the committee. I did mention to him that I will not be going to the Cup next year unless the Junior that I have been working with can go. He made a valid point when he said that we shouldn't kill the Cup because when someone does take it over there won't be anything left. I like Flex's idea on the armband.

Okay Dave, you asked for it so here it is. Dwight's email is ddvanhorn@adelphia.net. I'd give you his home number but that might not be a good idea. That doesn't surprise me that Rudy didn't know. He is usually the last one to know about those things. I had to call Dwight last year at home to find out if the rule changes passed the rules committee last year.

Mike,

Get your butt down here!!! The only way your grip safety will be checked is if the referee from Michigan shows up. I haven't heard a peep out of those guys so it doesn't look like there will be a ref. If he does show you can shoot my gun!

Greg,

I have your entry.

[BigDave]

Kevin,

I want to thank you also for all the work you did, especially the stuff we never heard about. I'm very concerned that we lost a shooter on the AP board, especially one so involved at the club level like you are. I think the sport took a step back today.

Don't worry, I don't plan on going nuclear on anyone, in phone or e-mail. I just want (and I think we deserve) a direct line of communication to the chairman.

I appreicate Doug's concern, and I'm glad, to a point only because I don't know his stance on one issue or the other, but I question his motives. He makes a living at this. His motives are different than many of us. Not bad, just different.

Kevin - if I can make it to the state and regional match, I'm going to try like hell to be there. Work, that time of the year is volitile and I really don't know one day to the next. But, if I can be, I'll be there, maybe with a shooter or two in tow.

Armband - I really like that idea. The other idea i've had is a petition. Did the program list competitors e-mail addresses?

Dave

[Allgoodhits]

Kevin,

Thank you for serving. The effort is greater than the prize.

Now having said that, Kevin why not cancel the the NRA Regional and the VA State Championships due to services no longer needed, and shooter lack of interest. Then immediately resurrect both matches under ICASE, since there appears to be significant interest. Oh to be fair, give the NRA about as much notice as they gave you....about half a minute.

Maybe we should just show up at the match and demand our money back. That way you would have fulfilled whatever obligation you have with NRA. You offered the match , we just refused to shoot it. No competitors, no regs money to NRA. Of course you would have to send the medallions and plaques back along with the free Bianchi entries which will be penny stock by next year anyhow. Then while we are there, you offer to run an ICASE match. We sign up for it on the spot.

I'm not sure what sounds better the ANGSTADT CUP, STRAWN CUP, BEDFORD CUP or BLUEFIELD CUP. Maybe the VIRGINIAS CUP for VA and WVA. Hmmmm, the REBEL CUP has a nice ring!

Martin

[Action Pistolero]

Dave,

If you think that there is a chance that you can make it go ahead and send me your entries. If you can't make it I'll send you your money back.

Of all the professional shooters that I have met I will have to say that Doug is one hell of a guy. I have no problems with him being on that committee and representing us.

Martin- chill out just a little. The same thought crossed my mind but I intend on fulfilling my obligations to NRA. That does not mean that we can't discuss ICASE and how to get it off and running.

[Allgoodhits]

The NRA,a major supporter of the 2nd Amendment, but they can't handle the heat if you exercise your 1st Amendment rights!

The time has come to move on. It will be proven that it is easier to build a new, better mousetrap than to modify or repair the old one.

[Allgoodhits]

The below email was sent this morning....

Rudy,

I think the NRA made a huge mistake firing or otherwise removing Kevin Angstadt from the AP Committee. How can they not know, or not care that through the efforts of Kevin Angstadt, Alan Strawn and others in the southern Virginia and West Virginia areas that NRA AP has actually grown and prospered, while in other areas we hear of reduced attendance? Kevin and company must be doing something right, and something that the shooters like and want and most importantly that the shooters come back to.

Many have agendas that have nothing to do with the sport or shooting AP matches. Some seek jobs, some notoriety, or sponsors and some who knows what. Kevin is a self taught, hardworking American entrepreneur, who just happens to love to shoot. Kevin is likely not the most gifted shooter out there. Kevin is good because he works at it and understands it. Kevin is driven to do better. Better at shooting, competing and better at running matches. He has acquired his skill and knowledge through practice, skill building, and shooting. I would venture to say that there is no one who has fired in more AP Matches than Kevin Angstadt. In addition he runs a lot of AP matches.

Many of the AP gods shoot only one AP match a year. I think Kevin shoots in about 15-20 matches per year and runs a half dozen or so. Kevin shoots VA, WVA, PA, IN, MO, MI, TX, LA and about anywhewre else he can mind a match. Who else does this for the prize tables at local AP matches? How many AP matches has the AP Committee Chair fired in? How many has he run? Can he pick up the phone and talk to new shooters on a first name basis, and world class shooters on a first name basis? Can he talk to a half dozen or more AP Match directors, on a first name basis, and get the scoop on what successes and problems they have experienced?

Based on all this, there is no one who has more experience really getting a handle on what entry level through world class shooters want at matches. Kevin was the most valuable person on the Committee because of his knowledge, desire, shooting experience, and match organization and promoting the NRA AP program. Kevin brings the interests of all shooter levels to the table, not just those who happen to be someone's buddy at the NRA, or what ever other agendas they may have.

Respectfully and disappointed,

Martin Johnson

NRA Benefactor

[Kimberkid]

The armband issue is a lovely idea, and not the first time it has been mentioned. The only flaw in our plan is that the NRA doesnt care about armbands. NRA doesnt care about shooters or any other jack shit associated with AP. They care about money. If we show up wearing arm bands, then we are STILL SHOWING UP AND PAYING!!!!! If they still get the same amount of money, can we really expect them to change just because of some stripes on our shirts. I'll shoot the Cup wearing a fuzzy chicken suit if it will actually bring some change, but it wont.

As for a boycott, I wasnt talking about the top shooters. What I meant was that if the only people that show up to the BC are big dogs, there wont be a match. They have to have some of us down in 50th place and below to bring in the money to pay these top dogs. If you have 20 big dogs show up, and only 30 people total, it aint gonna work.

This game is solely responsible for starting and sustaining my life as a shooter. At this point, NRA can have their crappy game back. If/when ICASE gets rolling, cool, I'll be down for it, but I dont want anything to do with any shooting sport that has NRA attached to it.

[SRT Driver]

I'll shoot the Cup wearing a fuzzy chicken suit if it will actually bring some change, but it wont.

I get it...you've become modest.

What happened to the "special" team thongs we talked about? The one's with belt loops attached.

[kimmbeckwith]

Kevin:

A BIG THANK YOU for all you have done and tried to do. I did send an e-mail to the committe chairman today. I will post it when I am at my office the first of the week. I am now at home thinking of how all this has gone south. I don't see any way for the NRA to listen to us. They just won't! I have sent e-mails apon e-mails to Rudy and talked until I am blue in the face to some of the other committee members. No-one wants to listen.

The paid shooters don't want the cup to end because of the payouts, I understand that but at some point in time we have to think about the SPORT.

I talked with Margaret Stallings today and she is in total agreement with me on how it seems the NRA is shooting itself in the foot. How can you make the bulk of the Action Shooting members mad and expect them to come back. I think the NRA thinks they can replace them with new shooters from other organizations.

Our sponsorship is in question for next year, we did sponsor this year because we didn't want to let down the junior shooters.

But, this post is Just to say a BIG THANK YOU TO YOU KEVIN!! Your were asked to pay the price and you stood behind all of us and we won't forget it.

Kim M. Beckwith

Zero Ammuniton CO.

[SRT Driver]

Read the following with a grain of salt...

The August "competitor's corner" by M. Gilchrist:

As usual, I solicit your help. The various competitive committees will be meeting in the near future starting at the end of August and running through November. For those of you who have attended one of our several Championships and have filled out a suggestion form, be assured that the appropriate committee will review your input, positive, negative or neutral. As a matter of fact, ever suggestion form from Camp Perry, regardless of subject, is shared with the National Guard, the Civilian Marksmanship Program and the NRA and NRA's committees. Silhouette suggestion forms are collated and are given to the Silhouette Committee for its review.

That does not help those of you who do not attend NRA Championships, however. We want to hear what you have to say, too. Our constituency far exceeds those who travel to NRA Championship events. This is your opportunity to comment on the many programs, activities, and rules that we manage annually. You can find the names of the committee secretaries on our Web Site at www.nrahq.org/compete/index.asp. Select "Directory and Contact Information" from the list on the left side of the page. Scroll to the bottom of the page and you will find the listing of this Division's committee secretaries. If you do not have access to the internet, mail your comments to the Competitive Shooting Division at NRA Headquarters, 11250 Waples Mill Road, Fairfax, Virginia, 22030. I will promise that your concerns will be reviewed.

Yeah, right. They may be reviewed but go in one ear and out the other.

[gm iprod]

Kevin,

Sorry to see you go, you were doing a good job, and that clearly was not what they wanted.

Having just started sorting my finances so I can go next year, it will be the first year that the senior award is on mempry of john, he would very sour about the way this is turning out.

Clearly action is needed and I am at a loss to know exactly what to do. But I know something has to be done.

I will be there next year, but what happens later this year will determine what I do for 2007. Some of use who travel a long way and spend a lot of money have to answer for the value of this match.

It appears that here in New Zealand we will not be changing a lot of our rules to match what the NRA want for AP. The only three people I know in this entire country that have got working grip safeties are Karl P, his son Warren and myself. No one else will change their pistols. The Aussies are royaly pissed at this from emails I have got, but they will have to play along if they want the World Shoot in 2006. Which by the way a large amount of Yanks would be made most welcome down here and in Australia.

[Kimberkid]

SRT~ as for team thongs, whatever man. If it is gonna make the Cup like it used to be, I'll wear whatever anyone is willing to watch. As for Mr. Gilchrist's article, I'm sorry, but their actions are speaking so loudly I cant hear what they are saying. Which is semi ironic since they listen to neither our words, or our actions to this point.

GM~ I am also sorry to see this work out the way it has, totally tainting John's legacy. I can see that being the sole reason anyone from outside the US would shoot this match. No one will blame you guys if you decide it isnt worth the cost. It isnt worth it to me, and I costs me about 1/4 the price. Keep us up on how ya'll are shooting out there.

[goldfieldshooter]

Hi Guys

Many thanks Kevin for all you have done ( and I hope continue to do ) for Action Pistol. It seems you have paid the price for sticking to your principles.

We all have our own ideas on the 'ideal' match and we all tend to differ slightly but we KNOW what we are talking about. To have someone who doesn't shoot AP, doesn't run AP matches or, as far as we know, hasn't attended an AP match telling us what and how we are going to shoot seems a bit strange.

I have had 6 mths away from competitive shooting and have another 6 mths break to go before I 'get serious' again, I will be thinking very hard on what to do for the future. I cannot see myself coming back to the Cup as it is now and that is a real shame because I really enjoy all of your company. Also I will qualify to shoot senior in 2007 and that will be missed the most. As gm iprod said, we haven't adopted the grip safety and probably won't adopt the trigger pull rule for our matches either. To shoot the Cup is different to anything we have in the rest of the world. It is all about sponsorship, money, prestige and lastly the shooting itself.Some of us come and shoot for the enjoyment and if you take that away from a match, you go and shoot something that you do enjoy. By not changing our rules we are trying to keep that enjoyment factor alive.

Martin. How would you like to write a letter to my boss telling him I need a raise and more shooting time. That letter to Rudy was awsome.

Coatesy