Newbie reloader - Questions

[LowBoost]

Newbie here. Just got my S1050 about a month ago. Took my time to install, add bullet feeder, and do some testing based.

I believe I have set dies properly now. I have a lot of range picked brass (9mm). I did a couple of dummy rounds and at first it was driving me nuts that almost all the time there is a OAL variation (Until I was told about the case variations, etc). My length goes from 1.130 to 1.140 I may just go down to 1.125 to have a little wiggle room.

This being said I have a few newbie questions. Please bear with me.

1) I have read about the plunk test, and I had no problem with a round at 1.15 (G19). However, I have not read about anyone using such length. There are obviously physical aspects I can look at to identify there is just too much AOL, however, what is considered "too small", "normal", and too large? Books and powder manufacturers web site provide loading data, but the AOLs are pretty much standard. (If there is a standard, what is the purpose of plunk test with max AOL)?

2) I need to set powder charge. How much powder should I pit into the dropper to start? As much as I want? Fill it up? Can I leave powder in the dropper for days/weeks or should I empty it? If I should empty it, is there an easy way to dump out the powder into a container? Is it possible to remove the dropper without spilling powder?

3) When I add the primers, and I am preparing a few dummy rounds, is there any way to remove the primers from primed cases or do I need to be absolutely sure everything is set properly prior to priming any brass?  Assuming there are primers in the tube, is there a way to remove the primers to store them or are they just kept there until tube empties?

4) When I prepared my dummy rounds, brass are nicely sized, swaged, Mr Bullet funnel flares the case, bullet dropper sets the bullet on top of brass, seater die sets to 1.13x, and when the round is crimped, I notice what someone told me is called "Wasp waist" or "Coke Bottle". Basically, you can tell there is some bulging where the bullet seats and the area below it in the brass is thinner. How can I solve this? 

5) Crimping. Do I need to leave some flare or do I remove as much flare as possible? The same applies for coated bullets? (I read these require little crimp)

6) How often should I check for powder weight? I see some state they have loaded 1,000 rounds in an hour. That is nice, but how accurate are those charges?

I understand some check every 5 or 10 rounds, but would be nice to take advantage of the S1050 benefits to crank a few more (if possible) before checking for powder weight.

Just in can anyone provide some loading data for:

Bayou Bullets 124gr TCG  + Titegroup

Precision Delta 124gr FMJ + Titegroup

I am "itching" to start reloading, I am just being extremely cautious and making sure I don't make a costly mistake. Baby steps, but certainly eager to learn.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2016 by LowBoost

[JLeeCZ]

Go slowwww!  Titegroup in not a very forgiving powder.  If it were me, I'd put the Titegroup aside for now and pick something with a slower burn rate like Hp-38 or even WSF both of which are readily available right now.

[haiedras]

1 hour ago, LowBoost said:

Newbie here. Just got my S1050 about a month ago. Took my time to install, add bullet feeder, and do some testing based.

I believe I have set dies properly now. I have a lot of range picked brass (9mm). I did a couple of dummy rounds and at first it was driving me nuts that almost all the time there is a OAL variation (Until I was told about the case variations, etc). My length goes from 1.130 to 1.140 I may just go down to 1.125 to have a little wiggle room.

You shouldn't be getting that much variation, even with range brass. What bullet seater are you using? 

This being said I have a few newbie questions. Please bear with me.

1) I have read about the plunk test, and I had no problem with a round at 1.15 (G19). However, I have not read about anyone using such length. There are obviously physical aspects I can look at to identify there is just too much AOL, however, what is considered "too small", "normal", and too large? Books and powder manufacturers web site provide loading data, but the AOLs are pretty much standard. (If there is a standard, what is the purpose of plunk test with max AOL)?

the OAL varies depending on your barrel. IIRC, the plunk test just tells you how long you can load your rounds before they start to hit the rifling.

2) I need to set powder charge. How much powder should I pit into the dropper to start? As much as I want? Fill it up? Can I leave powder in the dropper for days/weeks or should I empty it? If I should empty it, is there an easy way to dump out the powder into a container? Is it possible to remove the dropper without spilling powder?

Depends if you're still in the load testing process or ready to crank out rounds. You can leave the powder in depending on your environmental conditions. Note that Titegroup will discolor the powder hopper if left in for extended periods of time. You can empty the powder from the hopper fairly easily, but it's definitely more difficult to get all the powder out, as you'll have some in the powder bar and just hanging around. Yes, you can remove the powder drop with out spilling powder, just make sure the powder arm is disconnected and unscrew the two bolts at the bottom of the hopper.

3) When I add the primers, and I am preparing a few dummy rounds, is there any way to remove the primers from primed cases or do I need to be absolutely sure everything is set properly prior to priming any brass?  Assuming there are primers in the tube, is there a way to remove the primers to store them or are they just kept there until tube empties?

4) When I prepared my dummy rounds, brass are nicely sized, swaged, Mr Bullet funnel flares the case, bullet dropper sets the bullet on top of brass, seater die sets to 1.13x, and when the round is crimped, I notice what someone told me is called "Wasp waist" or "Coke Bottle". Basically, you can tell there is some bulging where the bullet seats and the area below it in the brass is thinner. How can I solve this? 

If the rounds pass case gauging/plunk test in your barrel, I'm pretty sure this isn't an issue.

5) Crimping. Do I need to leave some flare or do I remove as much flare as possible? The same applies for coated bullets? (I read these require little crimp)

For 9mm, you basically want to take out the bell. From what I've seen, coated rounds are a little less sensitive to crimp than plated rounds, which tend to tumble if there's any overcrimping of the case.

6) How often should I check for powder weight? I see some state they have loaded 1,000 rounds in an hour. That is nice, but how accurate are those charges?

Depends on your powder drop, I throw about 6 charges when I start reloading to see how consistent the drop is. After that, I don't check again during a reloading session as the powder drop isn't going to vary enough to cause concern.

I understand some check every 5 or 10 rounds, but would be nice to take advantage of the S1050 benefits to crank a few more (if possible) before checking for powder weight.

Just in can anyone provide some loading data for:

Bayou Bullets 124gr TCG  + Titegroup

Precision Delta 124gr FMJ + Titegroup

Someone will prolly be along to correct me as I load 147s, but you're prolly looking at...3.6-3.8gr for the Bayous, and +.2-.3 for the FMJs.

I am "itching" to start reloading, I am just being extremely cautious and making sure I don't make a costly mistake. Baby steps, but certainly eager to learn.

FWIW, I started with TG and I found it fairly easy, even when laddering my loads from 3.0-3.7gr. 

 

1 hour ago, LowBoost said:

 

 

 

 

[LowBoost]

@haiedras

I am using all the carbide dies that came with my S1050. I am thinking about getting the Redding Competition Pro seating die.

Any answer(s) to #3? In all honesty, the priming aspect is probably the only part I fear screwing up and have a primer going off!

So, once a case is primed, there is no way to remove the primer except to load it up shoot it? If a primed case goes into the priming station, a new one will be pushed against the existing one possibly causing an issue or it will be mechanically not possible?

[9x45]

best thing you can do is find a local USPSA hoser who runs a 1050, and have him help you set it up.

[noylj]

1) I have read about the plunk test, and I had no problem with a round at 1.15 (G19). However, I have not read about anyone using such length. There are obviously physical aspects I can look at to identify there is just too much AOL, however, what is considered "too small", "normal", and too large? Books and powder manufacturers web site provide loading data, but the AOLs are pretty much standard. (If there is a standard, what is the purpose of plunk test with max AOL)?

Wasn't AOL a bulletin board computer service?

I believe you are talking about Cartridge Overall Length (COL)? This has NOTHING to do with case length and trimming 9x19 cases will only increase head space and decrease accuracy. In general, though not significant for Action Pistol, the longer COL will be more accurate. There is a range of COL that works for each gun and bullet, and this range is not the same for ALL guns and bullets.

Plunk test does two things:

a) can establish max functional length

and 

establish cause of any feeding/chambering issues that are due to the cartridge.

(I hate emojis and really hate automatic emojis)

Per Ramshot:

"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”

It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.

 

The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.

 

This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as

 

i) magazine length (space),

 

ii) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel,

 

iii) ogive or profile of the projectile and

 

iv) position of cannelure or crimp groove.

 

• Always begin loading at the minimum ‘Start Load.’"

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.

 

Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).

 

Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood. After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.

 

You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.

 

Remove and inspect the round:

 

a1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long

 

a2) scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp

 

a3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case

 

a4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit

 

a5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

 

 

 

2) I need to set powder charge. How much powder should I pit into the dropper to start? As much as I want? Fill it up? Can I leave powder in the dropper for days/weeks or should I empty it? If I should empty it, is there an easy way to dump out the powder into a container? Is it possible to remove the dropper without spilling powder?

Dropper? You almost always fill the powder hopper. Unless you find that a baffle works in your measure, you want to keep the hopper filled at least 1/3 full and I try to keep it at least 1/2 full at all times. Many folks leave the powder in the hopper for days, months, years, but it isn't worth it. It takes almost no time to remove the measure and pour the powder back in the hopper. You put a funnel on the powder can and pour the powder back in.

3) When I add the primers, and I am preparing a few dummy rounds, is there any way to remove the primers from primed cases or do I need to be absolutely sure everything is set properly prior to priming any brass?  Assuming there are primers in the tube, is there a way to remove the primers to store them or are they just kept there until tube empties?

I am totally confused. If making inert dummy rounds, no powder or primers should be at the press. Spent primers in the case will be ejected by the decapping pin on the sizing die (or you can use a universal decapping die prior to case cleaning). You use the making of the inert dummy rounds to set-up the dies. You have read a few manuals and possibly "ABCs of Reloading," right?

4) When I prepared my dummy rounds, brass are nicely sized, swaged, Mr Bullet funnel flares the case, bullet dropper sets the bullet on top of brass, seater die sets to 1.13x, and when the round is crimped, I notice what someone told me is called "Wasp waist" or "Coke Bottle". Basically, you can tell there is some bulging where the bullet seats and the area below it in the brass is thinner. How can I solve this? 

You have all this equipment and are asking these questions? Wasp waist is DESIRABLE. It can help prevent bullet set back. If you have a bulge in the case at the base of the bullet on only ONE side of the case, it means that you are NOT expanding the case properly (probably ONLY doing case mouth flare) and the bullet is seating crooked. IF the bulge goes all the way around, as I said, that is usually desirable.

5) Crimping. Do I need to leave some flare or do I remove as much flare as possible? The same applies for coated bullets? (I read these require little crimp)

No, you don't leave any flare after crimping. All you want to do is remove the case mouth flare. This applies to all bullets. See the pluck test instructions above for checking for chambering issues, one of which is NOT removing enough case mouth flare. If in doubt, get a factory round and copy the crimp. If you lightly chamfer the case inside and out, you can often skip the case mouth flare step with jacketed bullets (not plated, unless heavy plated).

6) How often should I check for powder weight? I see some state they have loaded 1,000 rounds in an hour. That is nice, but how accurate are those charges?

First, you LOOK IN EVERY CHARGED CASE, EVERY TIME and compare powder height. Any questionable charges are pulled and weighed.

You have to know your measure first. Initially you check every 25 rounds and you can increase the interval over time. Personally, I run an RCBS Lock-Out die and it does a more-than-adequate job of checking the powder charge in the case.

Edited October 11, 2016 by noylj
stupid auto emoji

[haiedras]

2 hours ago, LowBoost said:

@haiedras

I am using all the carbide dies that came with my S1050. I am thinking about getting the Redding Competition Pro seating die.

Any answer(s) to #3? In all honesty, the priming aspect is probably the only part I fear screwing up and have a primer going off!

So, once a case is primed, there is no way to remove the primer except to load it up shoot it? If a primed case goes into the priming station, a new one will be pushed against the existing one possibly causing an issue or it will be mechanically not possible?

Noylj pretty much summed up what I said in more detail. 

You definitely don't want to put a primed case into the priming station. That's bad in a number of ways, as the 1050 will basically try to mash two live primers together. You don't want that.

Honestly, not sure why you'd want to remove the primer. If it's seated correctly, then when you start loading for real, just put the primed cases in the powder station.

[LowBoost]

Really nice reply Noylj. Thank you very much and apologies for my mistake with AOL / COL. 

Thanks Haiedras. Will double check a few things and will try to load a few rounds soon.

Edited October 11, 2016 by LowBoost

[TDA]

8 hours ago, LowBoost said:

Really nice reply Noylj. 

As always!

If you have a little time to browse, you might do a search for other posts he has made, as they are always quite informative and helpful.

[SCTaylor]

12 hours ago, 9x45 said:

best thing you can do is find a local USPSA hoser who runs a 1050, and have him help you set it up.

He is trying! Well I don't run a 1050 but have been trying to help him out, just can't get enough time to visit him again.

[9x45]

SC, there you go again, doing the right thing! I understand it takes some time to go from here to there in Texas.....

[mikeinctown]

One thing to check for, when I was having .010 overall variations on my seated length on my 650, it truned out to be from the slight movement of either the toolhead or the shell plate. That was cured by using case lube on the brass before I tossed it into the case feeder. The brass moves into the dies easier, so there is less deflection. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

As far as how much crimp you need or want, you'll need to pull the bullet and make sure you aren't scraping any of the coating off or diggin in to the coating. The brass should just leave a nice indentation into the coating or plating to hold it in place.

[LowBoost]

OK - I just came home and re-adjusted my seating and crimp dies. I validated all my other dies and will wax the Mr. Bulletfeeder funnel as it gets stuck in the case when flaring. After re-sizing, I see the case walls are flat, and after seating and crimp I get the "desired" Wasp Belly effect.

I used the bullet feeder several times in order to set my desired seating depth, and could see a slight indentation in the bullet. 

Based on this photo, should I remove more flare?

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by LowBoost

[Sarge]

2 hours ago, LowBoost said:

OK - I just came home and re-adjusted my seating and crimp dies. I validated all my other dies and will wax the Mr. Bulletfeeder funnel as it gets stuck in the case when flaring. After re-sizing, I see the case walls are flat, and after seating and crimp I get the "desired" Wasp Belly effect.

I used the bullet feeder several times in order to set my desired seating depth, and could see a slight indentation in the bullet. 

Based on this photo, should I remove more flare?

 

Hard to tell but that looks good. Run your finger nail over it from front to back. Should not feel like it wants to grab the nail if that makes sense.

or you can measure the bullet and case wall times two and get a number that way.

should be .376-.379 or so

[LowBoost]

I ran the finger as described and indeed it grabs my nail. I added a little more crimp and bullet + case wall measures .3785.

Was that the proper way to get the number? Other than that, the bullet diameter is .355 and wall size of a similar case is .0140.

If I sum that then times two, I get .635

 

 

 

[GrumpyOne]

Case wall x 2 + .355 =0.383...

[GrumpyOne]

Based on your picture, it looks pretty good. If you can pull the bullet, check to see if it left any mark on the bullet itself...it it did, then back off the crimp until it doesn't. 

[LowBoost]

Ahh got it! I just pulled the bullet before your post. I left a very slight mark. Perhaps I need to add a little more crimp instead?

[GrumpyOne]

The bullet "should" be pristine when pulled...a very slight mark will probably be ok...if you are leaving a mark, you can be sizing the bullet a little, which may affect accuracy.

[VanMan1961]

The Dillon dies are straight walled and will leave you with the "wasp waist" (bottom round).  I switched to a Lee Factory Crimp die set when I started to reload for my S&W 929 (top round).  The Lee die resizes to the appropriate taper.  For semi-auto's either die set worked fine for me in my XL650.  For my S&W 929, the Lee die gave a better crimp and eliminated a bullet creep problem I had. 

One thing about the Lee resizing die, it appears to have a smaller opening/bottom diameter as I've crunched a lot of brass if the casing is not perfectly seated all the way in the shell plate.  The Dillon resizing die is a lot more forgiving.

[f2benny]

I think a lock out die is a very good idea to prevent over or under charging a case. I also love my Lee fcd. It eliminated persistent problems with rounds not chambering.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[mikeinctown]

10 hours ago, VanMan1961 said:

The Dillon dies are straight walled and will leave you with the "wasp waist" (bottom round).  I switched to a Lee Factory Crimp die set when I started to reload for my S&W 929 (top round).  The Lee die resizes to the appropriate taper.  For semi-auto's either die set worked fine for me in my XL650.  For my S&W 929, the Lee die gave a better crimp and eliminated a bullet creep problem I had. 

One thing about the Lee resizing die, it appears to have a smaller opening/bottom diameter as I've crunched a lot of brass if the casing is not perfectly seated all the way in the shell plate.  The Dillon resizing die is a lot more forgiving.

Maybe with 9mm, but with .45 the Lee gives you the wasp waist and the Dillon more of a straight wall.

[LowBoost]

6 hours ago, f2benny said:

I think a lock out die is a very good idea to prevent over or under charging a case. I also love my Lee fcd. It eliminated persistent problems with rounds not chambering.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

I can't use a lock out die or Dillon powder check as I have a Bullet Feeder. Nothing wrong with taking a look at every charged case. It will eventually get embedded in my brain to watch every charge. 

[VanMan1961]

2 hours ago, mikeinctown said:

Maybe with 9mm, but with .45 the Lee gives you the wasp waist and the Dillon more of a straight wall.

good to know.  I'm just setting up to reload 45acp for my S&W 625.

[VanMan1961]

1 hour ago, LowBoost said:

I can't use a lock out die or Dillon powder check as I have a Bullet Feeder. Nothing wrong with taking a look at every charged case. It will eventually get embedded in my brain to watch every charge. 

you are going to love that Mr Bullit feeder.  It really increases the throughput.  Takes me longer to case gauge and bag a 100 rounds than actually reloading them on my 650.  The only things I really need to pay attention to is the push stroke to make sure I got a good primer seated (ie old primer didn't get sucked back in and then re-seated, or the occasional crimped primer pockets are a PITA), and a visual check on the powder level in station 3.  In my peripheral vision, I'm also looking to make sure a case didn't feed upside down in station 1.

Make sure your press is as solidly mounted as possible.  My reloading bench only has a 1" thick top on a 2" x 4" frame and I found the press moved around too much.  This can cause cases and bullets to feed upside down.  I mounted another table leg directly under the press and it really helped.  Here's a video of the after ...

https://youtu.be/v6WF8FJJgHU