LowBoost Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Newbie to reloading and have been reading and learning a lot in here. Just got a S1050 for 9mm and I am almost ready to start cranking some rounds. I am considering reloading .223/5.56 as well. And I am reading a LOT about the 2 tool-heads method (processing / reloading). I will post a new thread seeking additional answers on that end, but for now I would like to focus on which bullet, powder, primer and possible setup I should use for my rifle. I have 10.5" SBR and shoot mostly suppressed. (Note: I have only shot XM193, M855, Black Hills - 55gr, 62gr) What products recommendation would you suggest? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mveto Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Whats worked well for me is LC Brass, Federal AR Match Primers (if you can find them), Benchmark Powder and Hornady 62gr FMJBT bullets. It got me under 1 MOA at 100yrds. So far its been very good for me in practice and matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowBoost Posted October 8, 2016 Author Share Posted October 8, 2016 Yes - pretty hard to find those AR Match primers. Any experience with CCI Small Rifle Primers #400? Is Benchmark powder temperature sensitive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mveto Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 I haven't used the CCI's yet but I might have to once I run out of the Match AR's. I still have about 4k of them left so it might be a while. Yes the powder is temp sensitive it is part of Hodgdon's extreme powder line. It meters really well in my progressive press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Cheap Hornady 55gr bullets, range pick up brass, CCI #400 primers and any of the standard powders like TAC or H335 seems to get many people inside of 1.5 MOA without a lot of money spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowBoost Posted October 8, 2016 Author Share Posted October 8, 2016 (edited) I will order 1lb of Varget, Benchmark, and H335 to test, however, it looks like the latter are the ones I should really give a try. I will order a few Hornady and Sierra Matchking 69gr. (I don't believe 77 or 80gr will work best in a suppressed 10.5" although I could be totally wrong) Edited October 8, 2016 by LowBoost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowBoost Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 Quick question. Are the moly coated Sierra MatchKing Bullets 22 Caliber (224 Diameter) 69 Grain Hollow Point Boat Tail worth it or non-coated are OK? I am aware of the "performance" aspect of coated 9mm bullets, but I have no knowledge on how the coating performs on .223. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannybot Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 For blaster ammo through a suppressed SBR, try 19gr H4198 with 55gr FMJ @2.20". This load is low pressure, low recoil. It mght not group well beyond 50 yards, but it's a gentle round that won't put a bunch of gas in your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziebart Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Tony's recommended combo works great for me. Low to middle powder charge, and didn't seem to matter the primer. It all groups good enough, and the price is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmcfarland Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 For the close range stuff i have been using bulk Hornady 55gr FMJ in range brass over CFE223 and using S&B primers. these will get you a good group all day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowBoost Posted October 11, 2016 Author Share Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) Interesting. Looks like a lot of people prefer Hornady or Sierra, or is it just because of cost factor? Also, being shot from an SBR, wouldn't a little heavier bullet group better (69gr)? Is there any advantage with Moly coated bullets for .223? Edited October 11, 2016 by LowBoost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Moly coated bullets on rifle bullets is not the same stuff as cast pistol bullets. I tried it when I shot High Power, saw no advantage, it required more powder for the same velocity due to the reduction of pressure due to the coating. Hornady does not make a 62 grain FMJ. If you want small groups use match bullets, or varmint bullets, such as V-Max, Ballistic Tips or Blitz King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowBoost Posted October 11, 2016 Author Share Posted October 11, 2016 Thanks for the info. Actually, I meant the Sierra MatchKing 69gr instead of Hornady. I will give those a look and do my homework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 If you're going to be using a dillon powder drop, definitely use a ball powder. Moly coated bullets-no. If you're using a suppressed SBR, you can get away with a slightly faster burning powder and maybe see a little more velocity. AA2015, X-terminator, etc. 60 v-max or NBT or 55 v-max, blzkng, nbt would be good choices but pricier. 55 horn fmjbt are not that bad. Bullets around 70 grains might be waste of money depending on what you're trying to get. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowBoost Posted October 12, 2016 Author Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) Ordered some 55gr BlitzKing. I will eventually try 69g MatchKing for a little longer range/accuracy. Any suggestions for a "defensive" round? Edited October 13, 2016 by LowBoost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishoesel Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) On 10/12/2016 at 9:33 PM, LowBoost said: Ordered some 55gr BlitzKing. I will eventually try 69g MatchKing for a little longer range/accuracy. Any suggestions for a "defensive" round? Defensive rounds can be anything used for hunting (i.e. with expansion properties) Nosler Accubond Hornady FMJSP-C 55gr Hornady AMAX Hornady SST Berger TAC-TX (not sure if available in 223) You can also try to replicate the Black Hills 77GR MK 262 load which uses the Sierra 77gr Matchking w/ cannellure. This round is used in the MK12 DMRs (5.56) But you need a 1:7 twist barrel Edited October 17, 2016 by chrishoesel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absocold Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 A 1:8 will usually handle 77's just fine. It's the 1:9's that will see stability issues with 77's. Sierra just released a 77gr Matchking with a polymer ballistic tip. The old SMK's have a BC of .372 while the new STMK tipped version has a BC of .420 so they'll be the new holy grail of precision AR shooting. The ballistic tip helps promote expansion as well, the few gel tests I've seen so far look very promising. Not as good as a soft point bonded but very nice for a match round. Back to the original poster's question. Bullet choices will depend on your intended use, your rifle's twist rate and how much you're willing to spend. Powder choices are even more fun as there are a lot of powders that work well but you'll need to pick a bullet and bullet weight first. My favorite load right now is 77gr STMK's with Alliant AR-Comp, this through an 18" Wilson stainless barrel with rifle-length gas, Wylde chamber and 1:8 twist. Half MOA out to 850 yards all day long. I need more room to shoot near northeast Florida, someone help me out please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowBoost Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 @chrishoesel and @Absocold: Thanks for the info. To answer some of your questions, I would like to develop two rounds. One for matches/plinking and a defensive round (Which looks I can develop a single one that serves both purposes). My Noveske 10.5" SBR has a 1:7 twist barrel so no issues there. My rifle loves Black Hills! (If I recall correctly, that's what Noveske uses to tune their rifles at factory). It would be great if I can replicate that round. I will get some of those bullets and give it a try. Abssocold: Would you mind sharing your load info? I would like to try that as a starting point. Also, Federal Gold Medal AR Match primer (GM205MAR) is nowhere to be found. Which primer do you use / recommend? (CCI 41/400/450, other?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absocold Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I haven't found enough difference between primers to bother recommending one over another. Just try to always use the same ones for consistency. I like Winchester myself. Cheap, easy to find, soft. And spending the extra money on match primers is for the competition bullseye crowd that needs every last tiny shred of consistency, the vast majority of us do not need them. I don't want to give the powder charge on AR loads, there are way too many variables from one case/gun/barrel to the next but I will tell you that the muzzle velocity is 2,725 fps. It's very easy to work up your own load to that velocity. Well, actually it might not be so easy to do that in a 10.5" barrel. Never shot anything that short through a chrono with my handloads so I'm not sure if the powder is all burnt by that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishoesel Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) 21 hours ago, LowBoost said: @chrishoesel and @Absocold: Thanks for the info. To answer some of your questions, I would like to develop two rounds. One for matches/plinking and a defensive round (Which looks I can develop a single one that serves both purposes). My Noveske 10.5" SBR has a 1:7 twist barrel so no issues there. My rifle loves Black Hills! (If I recall correctly, that's what Noveske uses to tune their rifles at factory). It would be great if I can replicate that round. I will get some of those bullets and give it a try. Abssocold: Would you mind sharing your load info? I would like to try that as a starting point. Also, Federal Gold Medal AR Match primer (GM205MAR) is nowhere to be found. Which primer do you use / recommend? (CCI 41/400/450, other?) I would stick to CCI #41 Military primers on any AR. They are good quality primers and I've been told are actually a magnum primer. Have harder cups to prevent slam fires. Could be wrong though. I would not trust a match primer on a floating firing pin weapon (AR's) because I've had a slam fire a few years ago chambering a round. It was pointed downrange but still I had to change my pants. Powders are numerous, and many will work well. Consider the following: (I would stick to the first 2 on this list since I've had best results with them personally and are plentiful now. Hodgdon CFE223 - Clean burning at hotter loadings and high velocities, good metering, somewhat temp unstable. IMR 8208XBR - (current favorite) Clean, decent velocities, good metering, and temp stable. Also good for lighter 308 loads Ramshot TAC - I haven't used it but many love it VV-N140 - No comment I haven't used it. Expensive. VV-N540 - No comment I haven't used it. Expensive and cannot be bought in 8lb jugs Varget - I've used it to good effect but found 8208 to be better Hodgdon H335 - Ball powder and meters like water, but very dirty and temp unstable. Military load I believe for M193 and M855 but could be wrong. I'll play around with Quickload and maybe come up with some start loading profiles on that 10.5in barrel. I'm waiting on a stamp for my LWRC SBR so I'm curious myself. You have any powders already? You can start with what you have or what you can get easily, and start there. Choose a bullet weight and brand, and go from there. I'll see what powders give good performance and 100% powder burn out of 10.5, and I'll use the Sierra 77gr as a guide. Edited October 18, 2016 by chrishoesel Added some info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowBoost Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 I stopped at BassPro on my way home last night and found some Hodgdon CFE223, Hodgdon H335, and Alliant AR Comp. Bought 1lb cans. I could not find Hodgdon Benchmark, so that will have to wait. I also got some Sierra 77gr HPBT. Thanks for taking a look at Quickload, I have not find much (if any) starting point for SBR (That makes sense to this newbie). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishoesel Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 22 hours ago, LowBoost said: @chrishoesel and @Absocold: Thanks for the info. To answer some of your questions, I would like to develop two rounds. One for matches/plinking and a defensive round (Which looks I can develop a single one that serves both purposes). My Noveske 10.5" SBR has a 1:7 twist barrel so no issues there. My rifle loves Black Hills! (If I recall correctly, that's what Noveske uses to tune their rifles at factory). It would be great if I can replicate that round. I will get some of those bullets and give it a try. Abssocold: Would you mind sharing your load info? I would like to try that as a starting point. Also, Federal Gold Medal AR Match primer (GM205MAR) is nowhere to be found. Which primer do you use / recommend? (CCI 41/400/450, other?) Lowboost: I played around in Quickload for a bit with 2 bullet types, and using your information re: barrel length, I found a few powder combos to try. I'm attaching pdf of the results Caveat: 1. Do NOT USE 223 headstamp brass. Use ONLY 5.56 NATO or similar rated brass, since the loads I'm listing are high pressure loads and close to max. The pressures are still below 5.56 LC capability, but will not hold up in 223 chambers or 223-stamped brass. This is hypothetical of course, but I would not use reloads for defensive situations. Not because I'm afraid they won't work, but because of possible legal ramifications should they be used in such a situation. 2. Start 10% lower and observe pressure signs. I'm putting these in the "defensive round" category, and assuming you will not reuse the brass. 3. A 10.5 inch barrel length is not going to safely yield higher velocities than what is listed. All of these will achieve 2650-2700 out of 16 inch barrels. 2300fps is going to be max out of your barrel. Since these are going to be defensive rounds, you will need velocity over precision in order to get any expansion. Normally one always loads for safety first, precision second, and velocity third. I used safety first, velocity second, and precision is to be determined. Probably 1-1.5MOA. Lower charges will probably yield more precision. 4. None will achieve 100% burn, but are pretty close to 90-92%. You'll get some fireballs probably. Take these charts as a baseline to determine which powder/s to buy. Consult free online powder mfg. load data to correlate what I'm posting. Never take 1 person's advice when actual loadings are posted. Having said all that, I think you'll do great with CFE223, H4198, IMR 8208XBR, and to a lesser extent, Ramshot TAC. Hot climates, stay away from H335 and TAC if loading close to max. I'll work on some plinker loads using Hornady bulk 55gr stuff, good for matches and burners and post them. 223 REM-69GR TIPPED MATCHKING-HODG8208XBR.pdf 223 REM-69GR TIPPED MATCHKING-HODGBLC2.pdf 223 REM-69GR TIPPED MATCHKING-HODGCFE223.pdf 223 REM-69GR TIPPED MATCHKING-HODGH335.pdf 223 REM-69GR TIPPED MATCHKING-HODGH4895.pdf 223 REM-69GR TIPPED MATCHKING-RAMSHOTTAC.pdf 223 REM-69GR TIPPED MATCHKING-VVN530.pdf 223 REM-77GR HPBT MATCHKING-C-RAMSHOTTAC.pdf 223 REM-77GR HPBT MATCHKING-C-VVN530.pdf 223REM-SIERRA77GR-HPBT MATCHKING-C-HODGBLC2.pdf 223REM-SIERRA77GR-HPBT MATCHKING-C-HODGCFE223.pdf 223REM-SIERRA77GR-HPBT MATCHKING-C-HODGH335.pdf 223REM-SIERRA77GR-HPBT MATCHKING-C-HODGH4895.pdf 223REM-SIERRA77GR-HPBT MATCHKING-C-IMR8208XBR.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishoesel Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 I forgot about AR Comp. Looks like a great loading actually. Here is the Quickload for it: I'll have to pick some of that powder up. Not sure about temp stability because I've never used it but the numbers look good. 100% propellant burn out of 10.5 inch barrel and same velocities/lower pressures. 223 REM-77GR HPBT-MATCHKING-ALLIANTARCOMP.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowBoost Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 Awesome! Thank you VERY much. I am also in Houston, so you know it counts as "Hot Climate". I got plenty of the BlitzKing 55gr I found at online special. Impulse buy, but I have heard great results from these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishoesel Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 2 minutes ago, LowBoost said: Awesome! Thank you VERY much. I am also in Houston, so you know it counts as "Hot Climate". I got plenty of the BlitzKing 55gr I found at online special. Impulse buy, but I have heard great results from these. No worries bud. I'm killing time at the moment and just happened to have QL open. Whereabouts in Houston? I'm in Afghanistan ATM but will be home in March. Hope to play with some loads when I get there. Take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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