Just4FunLP Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 This week I was watching Ben Stoeger's 15 Minute Dryfire Program video on YouTube (at 1 min 4 sec) and noticed he racks the slide from below during an unloaded start. I've always used what some refer to as the slingshot method. Not for any good reason, but it's just what came natural, and there were more important things to improve on. But now that I try it it does seem to be a quick way to insert a mag, rack and get on target. I'm shooting a CZ shadow in production. It has a pretty light recoil spring. I may switch to going over the top using the thumb knuckle (I'm sure there's a better way to discribe it) because it seems to be more reliable. But I'll put in the time to learn the below the slide methods if it makes sense. It will definitely take practice. I searched the forums and didn't see much on it. Let me know what you think. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 I rack the slide by coming over the top and grabbing on the front cocking serrations with the web of my hand. Then when i drive the gun forward my weak hand falls into place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Stop wasting time...learn the ninja load... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just4FunLP Posted August 21, 2016 Author Share Posted August 21, 2016 Well kiss my a.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Just4FunLP said: Well kiss my a.. Well put. Is racking the slide like that physically possible for us mere humans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenzobishop040 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 That is pretty cool Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 There are numerous youtube videos of it being done... I tried it...damn near ripped my shoulder out of the socket... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 I think under the slide is ideal if you can do it because it requires the least travel of the support hand before a full grip is established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 I used to do it in my ipsc std days. I put abrassive tapes on both flat sides of the slide where there were no serrations and where my support fingers were to pinch the sides. Also, Lighter recoil spring helps. Its quite effecient and as Jake said its the least movement of the racking hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mitch Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 2005 Nationals, Phil Strader, slingshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just4FunLP Posted August 21, 2016 Author Share Posted August 21, 2016 (edited) 13 hours ago, Dr Mitch said: 2005 Nationals, Phil Strader, slingshot Is that a post on BE or something else? Edited August 21, 2016 by Just4FunLP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 I started doing this on unloaded starts. However, when shooting 3 Gun where I have a magazine inserted and an empty chamber I still rack off of the back of the slide since I was worried about sweeping my hand (or looking like I was sweeping my hand) when doing this directly from the holster without inserting a magazine. For me I think this is slightly faster but likely not by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mitch Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 On August 21, 2016 at 7:26 AM, Just4FunLP said: Is that a post on BE or something else? Nationals DVDs. They are worth every penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 ninja rack is definitely the way to do it. I was super pissed when I discussed this with a good friend of mine who then accomplished it first go. So I went home and practiced up with some dummy rounds (in my CZ shadow, 10lb recoil spring, 11lb main) and finally got it working. Arm was pretty sore. thought I may have damaged elbow and/or shoulder... I'd love to apply it in matches but I have 3 problems. 1, can't always do it. I would look pretty stupid stuck on the line at an unloaded start throwing my arm back and forward like a demented monkey. 2. muzzle discipline. It can get a bit lax when I really try and rip it hard. I'm no where near as controlled as the man on the vid (dq potential for me here). 3, any more than 2 unloaded starts in a match and I'd probably run out of steam and have to revert to more 'conventional' methods. This would be a let down for the crowd that no doubt gathered to watch me do it after news of my first 2 'awesome' unloaded starts. potential for heckling from the peanut gallery. maybe at that point I could rack it with my mouth or something to keep the punters happy? PS, I want to see someone clearing a stovepipe with the ninja rack method! that is super ninja. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, BeerBaron said: ninja rack is definitely the way to do it. Whoa whoa whoa, let's pump the brakes here. There's a problem when you say it is definitely the way to go, then 3 lines later you say "can't always do it". I bet you money if you put it on the timer it is way faster to first shot and more consistent to rack from below. Edited August 23, 2016 by Jake Di Vita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlvrDragon50 Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Am I just super weak or is racking from below difficult with higher spring weights? My CZ85C has a 14 lb recoil and 13 lb main spring, and I can't rack from below to save my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClangClang Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 29 minutes ago, SlvrDragon50 said: Am I just super weak or is racking from below difficult with higher spring weights? My CZ85C has a 14 lb recoil and 13 lb main spring, and I can't rack from below to save my life. You probably could improve your grip strength, but regardless, it's still hard. And you have to rack with the hammer down, which makes it even harder. It probably isn't so bad if you're already fully cocked and in SA. And the 85C has no front serrations, which makes it even harder. The SP-01 has front serrations, but they're set slightly far back on the slide to be truly useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 8 hours ago, Jake Di Vita said: Whoa whoa whoa, let's pump the brakes here. There's a problem when you say it is definitely the way to go, then 3 lines later you say "can't always do it". I bet you money if you put it on the timer it is way faster to first shot and more consistent to rack from below. Was joke. Apparently I fail at ninja racking and sarcasm! to be serious and prevent any one taking my post the wrong way: no I don't reccomend the ninja rack as anything other than a party trick. Even forgetting potential issues with muzzle discipline and reliability it's only faster than simply racking when you're shooting sho. If shooting freestyle ninja rack would likely be slower simply due to the distance you have to move the gun (disrupting your draw) and your weak hand is no where near your grip where as with conventional racking it's on the gun. Much easier to establish grip from there. I min mainly shoot open so I use the racker. In production I rack from the front using the web of my weak hand. I've never practiced the underneath method but it looks pretty fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Sorry. I've heard people say that before and assumed it was sarcasm when it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 No worries. Sometimes my sarcasm can be a bit too close to what sounds like serious opinion. It sounded funny in my head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I didn't try the ninja method, but I did experiment a bit with racking from below this morning. It seems *slightly* more efficient movement-wise than cupping my hand over the top of the slide behind the front sight, but it also seems like there is more to go wrong. If I don't do it just right, I bump into my strong hand, and I am also a bit nervous about doing things in a hurry with my hand that close to the muzzle while the RO is looking for a reason to dq me. I think I'll stick with the old-school method for now but I may revisit this over the winter. I was using a 1911 with a 14lb recoil spring, so a lighter sprung gun or one with a 5.4" barrel might make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Just like any other new skill you learn. Takes practice before it becomes efficient and consistent. I wouldn't make this change in the middle of the season either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 There is simply no way I could ever get that going I don't think. I don't think the very tips of my tiny fingers would be able to rack the slide at all. That said, I actually can load a limited gun faster than my open gun off a table/out of the holster because thumb over slide and push is so much more gross motor than grabbing the slide racker, and you get such better grip on the slide. But maybe I am just uncoordinated (probably more than just "maybe"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Jake Di Vita said: Just like any other new skill you learn. Takes practice before it becomes efficient and consistent. I wouldn't make this change in the middle of the season either. that is certainly a valid point. one other thing to consider however is that the cupping hand over the top is probably capable of much more force, which comes in handy for clearing malfunctions, etc.... It makes some sense to me to have only 1 method of racking the slide for all conditions that occur under time-pressure, whether that's empty gun start, slide-lock reload, malfunction clearance, etc.... but I will still probably revisit the idea this winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I have more issues with my slide racker than I do with a non scoped gun as well. For most things shooting I agree that one pattern of motion is a really good idea. I do see some benefit to becoming proficient at different methods of racking the slide because I think furthering your general gun manipulation skills can only be a good thing with your overall control of the firearm. A big moment for me back in the day is when I read on here that Robbie had kept a gun around him most of the day and will just occasionally pick it up, play around with it, point it at stuff....I think that kind of non scripted screwing around throughout the day exposes you to some stuff that you wouldn't normally see doing regimented dry fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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