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Rack slide from below during unloaded start.


Just4FunLP

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This week I was watching Ben Stoeger's 15 Minute Dryfire Program video on YouTube (at 1 min 4 sec) and noticed he racks the slide from below during an unloaded start.  I've always used what some refer to as the slingshot method.   Not for any good reason, but it's just what came natural, and there were more important things to improve on.   But now that I try it it does seem to be a quick way to insert a mag, rack and get on target.  I'm shooting a CZ shadow in production. It has a pretty light recoil spring.   I may switch to going over the top using the thumb knuckle (I'm sure there's a better way to discribe it) because it seems to be more reliable.  But I'll put in the time to learn the below the slide methods if it makes sense.  It will definitely take practice.  

I searched the forums and didn't see much on it.   Let me know what you think.  

Thanks

 

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I rack the slide by coming over the top and grabbing on the front cocking serrations with the web of my hand. Then when i drive the gun forward my weak hand falls into place

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I used to do it in my ipsc std days. I put abrassive tapes on both flat sides of the slide where there were no serrations and where my support fingers were to pinch the sides. Also, Lighter recoil spring helps. Its quite effecient and as Jake said its the least movement of the racking hand. 

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I started doing this on unloaded starts. However, when shooting 3 Gun where I have a magazine inserted and an empty chamber I still rack off of the back of the slide since I was worried about sweeping my hand (or looking like I was sweeping my hand) when doing this directly from the holster without inserting a magazine. 

For me I think this is slightly faster but likely not by much. 

 

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ninja rack is definitely the way to do it. I was super pissed when I discussed this with a good friend of mine who then accomplished it first go.

So I went home and practiced up with some dummy rounds (in my CZ shadow, 10lb recoil spring, 11lb main) and finally got it working.

Arm was pretty sore. thought I may have damaged elbow and/or shoulder...

I'd love to apply it in matches but I have 3 problems.

1, can't always do it. I would look pretty stupid stuck on the line at an unloaded start throwing my arm back and forward like a demented monkey.

2. muzzle discipline. It can get a bit lax when I really try and rip it hard. I'm no where near as controlled as the man on the vid (dq potential for me here).

3, any more than 2 unloaded starts in a match and I'd probably run out of steam and have to revert to more 'conventional' methods. This would be a let down for the crowd that no doubt gathered to watch me do it after news of my first 2 'awesome' unloaded starts. potential for heckling from the peanut gallery. maybe at that point I could rack it with my mouth or something to keep the punters happy?

 

PS, I want to see someone clearing a stovepipe with the ninja rack method! that is super ninja.

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7 hours ago, BeerBaron said:

ninja rack is definitely the way to do it.

Whoa whoa whoa, let's pump the brakes here. There's a problem when you say it is definitely the way to go, then 3 lines later you say "can't always do it".

I bet you money if you put it on the timer it is way faster to first shot and more consistent to rack from below.

Edited by Jake Di Vita
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29 minutes ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

Am I just super weak or is racking from below difficult with higher spring weights?

My CZ85C has a 14 lb recoil and 13 lb main spring, and I can't rack from below to save my life.

You probably could improve your grip strength, but regardless, it's still hard. And you have to rack with the hammer down, which makes it even harder. It probably isn't so bad if you're already fully cocked and in SA. And the 85C has no front serrations, which makes it even harder.  The SP-01 has front serrations, but they're set slightly far back on the slide to be truly useful.

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8 hours ago, Jake Di Vita said:

Whoa whoa whoa, let's pump the brakes here. There's a problem when you say it is definitely the way to go, then 3 lines later you say "can't always do it".

I bet you money if you put it on the timer it is way faster to first shot and more consistent to rack from below.

Was joke. Apparently I fail at ninja racking and sarcasm!

to be serious and prevent any one taking my post the wrong way: no I don't reccomend the ninja rack as anything other than a party trick. Even forgetting potential issues with muzzle discipline and reliability it's only faster than simply racking when you're shooting sho. If shooting freestyle ninja rack would likely be slower simply due to the distance you have to move the gun (disrupting your draw) and your weak hand is no where near your grip where as with conventional racking it's on the gun. Much easier to establish grip from there. 

I min mainly shoot open so I use the racker. In production I rack from the front using the web of my weak hand. I've never practiced the underneath method but it looks pretty fast. 

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I didn't try the ninja method, but I did experiment a bit with racking from below this morning. It seems *slightly* more efficient movement-wise than cupping my hand over the top of the slide behind the front sight, but it also seems like there is more to go wrong. If I don't do it just right, I bump into my strong hand, and I am also a bit nervous about doing things in a hurry with my hand that close to the muzzle while the RO is looking for a reason to dq me. I think I'll stick with the old-school method for now but I may revisit this over the winter. I was using a 1911 with a 14lb recoil spring, so a lighter sprung gun or one with a 5.4" barrel might make a difference.

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There is simply no way I could ever get that going I don't think. I don't think the very tips of my tiny fingers would be able to rack the slide at all. 

That said, I actually can load a limited gun faster than my open gun off a table/out of the holster because thumb over slide and push is so much more gross motor than grabbing the slide racker, and you get such better grip on the slide. But maybe I am just uncoordinated (probably more than just "maybe"). 

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1 hour ago, Jake Di Vita said:

Just like any other new skill you learn. Takes practice before it becomes efficient and consistent. I wouldn't make this change in the middle of the season either.

that is certainly a valid point. one other thing to consider however is that the cupping hand over the top is probably capable of much more force, which comes in handy for clearing malfunctions, etc.... It makes some sense to me to have only 1 method of racking the slide for all conditions that occur under time-pressure, whether that's empty gun start, slide-lock reload, malfunction clearance, etc....

 

but I will still probably revisit the idea this winter.

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I have more issues with my slide racker than I do with a non scoped gun as well.

For most things shooting I agree that one pattern of motion is a really good idea. I do see some benefit to becoming proficient at different methods of racking the slide because I think furthering your general gun manipulation skills can only be a good thing with your overall control of the firearm. A big moment for me back in the day is when I read on here that Robbie had kept a gun around him most of the day and will just occasionally pick it up, play around with it, point it at stuff....I think that kind of non scripted screwing around throughout the day exposes you to some stuff that you wouldn't normally see doing regimented dry fire.

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