B_RAD Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) After shooting the last target of a stage today I fell over. A partially loaded mag fell out of my pocket that I stowed during a tac load. I didn't fire any shots after it fell out and I picked it up Is that procedural? I got one Edited August 20, 2016 by B_RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColonial Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 3.8 A penalty will be assessed any time a loaded ammunition-feeding device (magazine, speed loader, or full moon clip) is dislodged and falls out of an ammunition carrier during a course of fire. I only know because this came up on a prone stage and someone had a magazine fall out of carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 It fell out of my pocket. Not a carrier. Not that it's defined as something different. Also, I've always heard that if you do drop ammo, but pick it up before firing, there's no penalty. Thats why I ask. But per 3.8 if it falls out at all it sounds like it's a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColonial Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 A pocket is a legal magazine carrier.... 8.6.1.1 Instead of using ammunition carriers, shooters may carry spare loading devices in their pockets. Shooters may mix carry methods. I tightened my carriers before the prone stage. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 Yeah I re read the rules. Pockets = mag carriers. I also think it was a PE because I lost the mag not during a reload. As described in 3.8.2 Dropping a loaded magazine or speed loader/moon clip involved in a reload, during a reload does not incur a penalty as long as the shooter retrieves and properly stows the loaded magazine or speed loader/moon clip prior to the firing of the last shot in the string of fire. so unless I'm missing something else, if you drop ammo for any reason other than during reloading or clearing a malfunction, it's a PE even if you pick it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColonial Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 The interesting situation would if you knock the "other" mag out of a double pouch when you grab for the reload. That second mag may not be considered "involved" in the reload. I would think it's a PE. I've never had it happen, though. I use two singles, spread out, just to avoid pulling two mags out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 I use two singles as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreGarciaTAT2 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 I would strongly argue that this isn't a PE... Imagine this... You are done with the course of fire as soon as your last shot is fired. It's done... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 7 hours ago, DreGarciaTAT2 said: I would strongly argue that this isn't a PE... Imagine this... You are done with the course of fire as soon as your last shot is fired. It's done... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Course of fire ends with "range is clear" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Agreed. Your time may end with your last shot but the COF isn't over until you unload and show clear. You fell over during the COF, be thankful that you weren't DQ'd. Not that falling is a DQ offense, just a high probability that something will happen during the fall that will result in one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 mag with rounds on the ground not due to clearing a malfunction when "range is clear" is said equals a PE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColonial Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 11 hours ago, DreGarciaTAT2 said: 1 hour ago, v1911 said: You fell over during the COF, be thankful that you weren't DQ'd. Not that falling is a DQ offense, just a high probability that something will happen during the fall that will result in one. Thanks for being clear there. I have been to more than one match where a clueless SO announced that falling is an automatic DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreGarciaTAT2 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 I would still argue it. LolSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 so during the unload and show clear,if I just drop my mag out of the gun then unload and holster without picking up the mag, thats a PE also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 so you've never seen someone go to unload and show clear, drop the mag out, decide they see a make up shot, and then shoot it. mag on ground with rounds in it, shot fired, gun now empty. they didn't pick it up before the last shot. so yeah a pe. so in your case gmancdp, if you can still shoot at all and there is a mag on the ground with rounds in it then you get a pe. so then does the potential for the competitor to be possibly still shooting end at "if finished unload and show clear" or at "if clear, slide forward" or "pull the trigger" or "holster" or "range is clear"? if you shoot, if you can still shoot, if the potential to shoot is there and mags aren't where they're supposed to be, pe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreGarciaTAT2 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 so during the unload and show clear,if I just drop my mag out of the gun then unload and holster without picking up the mag, thats a PE also?Dang! That was my next one! Beat me to it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Hamby Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) Deleted Edited August 27, 2016 by Ty Hamby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 On 8/22/2016 at 0:32 PM, rowdyb said: so you've never seen someone go to unload and show clear, drop the mag out, decide they see a make up shot, and then shoot it. mag on ground with rounds in it, shot fired, gun now empty. they didn't pick it up before the last shot. so yeah a pe. so in your case gmancdp, if you can still shoot at all and there is a mag on the ground with rounds in it then you get a pe. so then does the potential for the competitor to be possibly still shooting end at "if finished unload and show clear" or at "if clear, slide forward" or "pull the trigger" or "holster" or "range is clear"? if you shoot, if you can still shoot, if the potential to shoot is there and mags aren't where they're supposed to be, pe. As a CSO at in FL if a shooter drops a mag to the ground on the "ULSC" and proceeds to ULSC I'm not going to call a PE on him. He did "Unload and show clear". What's the problem... he followed the SO commands and cleared his gun. If he fires another shot after ejecting the magazine... different story/situation... and a PE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gunnuts Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 On 8/27/2016 at 11:51 AM, GOF said: As a CSO at in FL if a shooter drops a mag to the ground on the "ULSC" and proceeds to ULSC I'm not going to call a PE on him. He did "Unload and show clear". What's the problem... he followed the SO commands and cleared his gun. If he fires another shot after ejecting the magazine... different story/situation... and a PE But is that following the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 I can't find any rule that covers dropping a magazine DURING the ULSC. It did not become dislodged from a magazine/speedloader carrier... the shooter did not fire any rounds while the magazine was on the ground...he did not make a slide forward speed reload. He just followed the SOs commands to ULSC. I see no issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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