Rule clarification. Loaded mag on ground

[B_RAD]

After shooting the last target of a stage today I fell over. A partially loaded mag fell out of my pocket that I stowed during a tac load. 

 

I didn't fire any shots after it fell out and I picked it up  

 

Is that procedural? I got one  

 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2016 by B_RAD

[NewColonial]

3.8 A penalty will be assessed any time a loaded ammunition-feeding device (magazine, speed loader, or full moon clip) is dislodged and falls out of an ammunition carrier during a course of fire.

I only know because this came up on a prone stage and someone had a magazine fall out of carrier.

[B_RAD]

It fell out of my pocket. Not a carrier. Not that it's defined as something different.

 

Also, I've always heard that if you do drop ammo, but pick it up before firing, there's no penalty. 

 

Thats why I ask. But per 3.8 if it falls out at all it sounds like it's a penalty. 

[NewColonial]

A pocket is a legal magazine carrier.... 

8.6.1.1 Instead of using ammunition carriers, shooters may carry spare loading devices in their pockets. Shooters may mix carry methods.

I tightened my carriers before the prone stage. :-)

[B_RAD]

Yeah I re read the rules. 

 

Pockets = mag carriers. 

 

I also think it was a PE because I lost the mag not during a reload. As described in 

 

3.8.2 Dropping a loaded magazine or speed loader/moon clip involved in a reload, during a reload does not

incur a penalty as long as the shooter retrieves and properly stows the loaded magazine or speed

loader/moon clip prior to the firing of the last shot in the string of fire.

 

so unless I'm missing something else, if you drop ammo for any reason other than during reloading or clearing a malfunction, it's a PE even if you pick it up. 

[NewColonial]

The interesting situation would if you knock the "other" mag out of a double pouch when you grab for the reload. That second mag may not be considered "involved" in the reload. I would think it's a PE. I've never had it happen, though. I use two singles, spread out, just to avoid pulling two mags out. 

[B_RAD]

I use two singles as well. 

[DreGarciaTAT2]

I would strongly argue that this isn't a PE... Imagine this... You are done with the course of fire as soon as your last shot is fired. It's done...


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[racknrider]

7 hours ago, DreGarciaTAT2 said:

I would strongly argue that this isn't a PE... Imagine this... You are done with the course of fire as soon as your last shot is fired. It's done...


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Course of fire ends with "range is clear"

[v1911]

Agreed.

Your time may end with your last shot but the COF isn't over until you unload and show clear.

 

You fell over during the COF, be thankful that you weren't DQ'd. Not that falling is a DQ offense, just a high probability that something will happen during the fall that will result in one. 

[rowdyb]

mag with rounds on the ground not due to clearing a malfunction when "range is clear" is said equals a PE.

[NewColonial]

11 hours ago, DreGarciaTAT2 said:

 

 

1 hour ago, v1911 said:

You fell over during the COF, be thankful that you weren't DQ'd. Not that falling is a DQ offense, just a high probability that something will happen during the fall that will result in one. 

Thanks for being clear there. I have been to more than one match where a clueless SO announced that falling is an automatic DQ.  

[DreGarciaTAT2]

I would still argue it. Lol




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[GmanCdp]

so during the unload and show clear,if I just drop my mag out of the gun then unload and holster without picking up the mag, thats a PE also?

[rowdyb]

so you've never seen someone go to unload and show clear, drop the mag out, decide they see a make up shot, and then shoot it. mag on ground with rounds in it, shot fired, gun now empty. they didn't pick it up before the last shot. so yeah a pe. so in your case gmancdp, if you can still shoot at all and there is a mag on the ground with rounds in it then you get a pe. so then does the potential for the competitor to be possibly still shooting end at "if finished unload and show clear" or at "if clear, slide forward" or "pull the trigger" or "holster" or "range is clear"?

if you shoot, if you can still shoot, if the potential to shoot is there and mags aren't where they're supposed to be, pe.

[DreGarciaTAT2]

so during the unload and show clear,if I just drop my mag out of the gun then unload and holster without picking up the mag, thats a PE also?

Dang! That was my next one! Beat me to it.


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[Ty Hamby]

Deleted

Edited August 27, 2016 by Ty Hamby

[GOF]

On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 0:32 PM, rowdyb said:

so you've never seen someone go to unload and show clear, drop the mag out, decide they see a make up shot, and then shoot it. mag on ground with rounds in it, shot fired, gun now empty. they didn't pick it up before the last shot. so yeah a pe. so in your case gmancdp, if you can still shoot at all and there is a mag on the ground with rounds in it then you get a pe. so then does the potential for the competitor to be possibly still shooting end at "if finished unload and show clear" or at "if clear, slide forward" or "pull the trigger" or "holster" or "range is clear"?

if you shoot, if you can still shoot, if the potential to shoot is there and mags aren't where they're supposed to be, pe.

As a CSO at in FL if a shooter drops a mag to the ground on the "ULSC" and proceeds to ULSC I'm not going to call a PE on him.  He did "Unload and show clear". What's the problem... he followed the SO commands and cleared his gun.

If he fires another shot after ejecting the magazine... different story/situation... and a PE.

 

 

[3gunnuts]

On 8/27/2016 at 11:51 AM, GOF said:

As a CSO at in FL if a shooter drops a mag to the ground on the "ULSC" and proceeds to ULSC I'm not going to call a PE on him.  He did "Unload and show clear". What's the problem... he followed the SO commands and cleared his gun.

If he fires another shot after ejecting the magazine... different story/situation... and a PE

But is that following the rules?

[GOF]

I can't find any rule that covers dropping a magazine DURING the ULSC. It did not become dislodged from a magazine/speedloader carrier... the shooter did not fire any rounds while the magazine was on the ground...he did not make a slide forward speed reload. He just followed the SOs commands to ULSC. I see no issue.