GrumpyOne Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, teros135 said: Everybody wants something more... Langniappe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavagai Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, rowdyb said: yes, there would be an advantage and anyone serious would instantly change to a sao gun over a striker fired gun especially. Which SAO gun would you switch to (with say a 4.5# min pull requirement) in preference to, for example, a PRP XDM 5.25 striker? That restriction would eliminate my 1911, btw, which is the only gun I have in this potential category, so I have no skin in this game from the SAO end. I just don't like seeing orphaned guns w/o a really good reason. Unrelated to your post, but more generally I don't think Limited minor and SS Minor are homes for a 9mm - they're ghettos IMO (I concede SS minor for the odd match for a pro, but that's not what we're talking about). Edit: I guess SS Minor is close to being a home - the disadvantage is small. Not true for otherwise "production" SAOs in Limited though. Edited November 21, 2016 by gavagai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) i was answering to the question generally, not to a specific gun. if the rules changed to allow a sao gun i would instantly start looking for one. or convert my accu shadow to sao. sao with a 4.5# requirement might as well be a striker fired and wouldn't be interested in that at all. Edited November 21, 2016 by rowdyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavagai Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) That's what I would expect, and it seems completely rational to me. But that's exactly my point - it doesn't seem very difficult to allow people to play with their stock 9mm SAOs in Prod without disadvantaging anyone, and it opens up the game to more people. I picked 4.5# because most stock SAOs seem to be around 5-5.5# these days and competitive SA/DAs and strikers are substantially less, but smarter people could make a more deliberate determination. Edited November 21, 2016 by gavagai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 If youwant to play with SAO, you're free to play all day in limited. Please stop trying to change Production to suit yourself. BTW, what SA trigger is 4.5# and who would leave it there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Why don't we let those SAO's play in Production....as long as they start hammer down...LOL. Leave Production alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Why didn't I think of that? Hammer down (just like the rest of us)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavagai Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 15 minutes ago, teros135 said: If youwant to play with SAO, you're free to play all day in limited. Please stop trying to change Production to suit yourself. BTW, what SA trigger is 4.5# and who would leave it there? OP's Legion (http://legionseries.com/p226-sao-legion/) My 1911 - or the closest model currently for sale (http://www.springfield-armory.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/PI9129LP1.pdf) We're not talking SVIs here. My original post includes the idea of restricting trigger weight for Production SAOs explicitly so that there is no disadvantage to existing Production shooters. If you or I were to shoot a stock striker trigger we are already disadvantaged by the CZs and competitive striker triggers - adding SAOs at 4.5# (or whatever) into the mix isn't going to make it any worse. As I said earlier, I don't have an SAO gun that would qualify by my own suggestions (mine's at 4#). I'm buying a striker fired gun for Prod in spring. I'm not trying to suit myself. I'm making the case because there are a bunch of guns (and inferentially owners) who are excluded from competitively shooting USPSA for no decent reason in my opinion, and I don't think it serves the sport. A 9mm stock SAO is not a Limited gun. Forcing owners to shoot that division doesn't make it so. I hardly think my posts are going to change the rules. But if I had a vote I would and this is why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 They aren't "forced" to shoot Limited...they can shoot Limited, Limited 10, Open, or if the gun is SS, Single Stack....They have options. Most who are going to play this game will adjust their platform to their chosen division pretty soon after starting anyway. Why not change revo to 5 shot neutral so all those 5 shot snubbies can play? There doesn't need to be a division for every gun out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BASE772 Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 I do believe the original question was do you see an advantage with the SAO. Not change the rules. I say there isn't an advantage. That's it. Not change any rules or make another division. Pretty much a yes or no question. But I appreciate the replys I'm currently shooting my Legion SAO frame with with a MK25 RX (red dot) slide on it in Open Division. (Minor) Having a blast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhall Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 On 11/21/2016 at 11:55 AM, GrumpyOne said: There doesn't need to be a division for every gun out there. Agreed. There are lots of guns that don't really fit well in most divisions. Like taking my bolt rifle to a 3gun match... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Ahh but we have a division for every gun out there, its just you may not be able to win shooting your scoped Contender 45-70 in open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkheard Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 OK, just to stir the pot: why shouldn't a P220 SAO be allowed in SS? It isn't a 1911, but all the rest of the criteria are met... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 20 minutes ago, tkheard said: OK, just to stir the pot: why shouldn't a P220 SAO be allowed in SS? It isn't a 1911, but all the rest of the criteria are met... As a single stack shooter, I say let them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 As I sadly learned (with a DA/SA P220R), they aren't 1911-pattern pistols, so they can only play in Lim-10. Holdover from the origins of Single Stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 3 hours ago, tkheard said: OK, just to stir the pot: why shouldn't a P220 SAO be allowed in SS? It isn't a 1911, but all the rest of the criteria are met... Because it's not a 1911, that's why. And thanks so much for stirring the pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 6 hours ago, MikeBurgess said: Ahh but we have a division for every gun out there, its just you may not be able to win shooting your scoped Contender 45-70 in open Ah, no. What division does a 32 pocket pistol fit into? Or a 25? Or a Derringer? Or any numerous other pistols smaller than 9x19? The 32 H&R magnum is a pretty stout round, but it doesn't fit anywhere. With just a little bit hotter load, it could make minor easily with a 100 grain bullet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 If there were to be a trigger pull force rule, exactly who would measure it and when? Not a reasonable rule. I do not believe that an SA gun would have a significant advantage over my SA/DA CZ Shadow custom. If the SA gun was required to start hammer down it would be at a disadvantage. If the SA gun was to be started cocked and locked, then my CZ should be allowed to do that also. The rules are fine as they stand now. Leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 13 hours ago, tkheard said: OK, just to stir the pot: why shouldn't a P220 SAO be allowed in SS? It isn't a 1911, but all the rest of the criteria are met... Because when I created it, it was the 1911 Single Stack division. Over years the name has been abbreviated, but it is still the 1911 Single Stack division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Gary Stevens said: Because when I created it, it was the 1911 Single Stack division. Over years the name has been abbreviated, but it is still the 1911 Single Stack division. This^^^ is the answer you're looking for. Edited November 24, 2016 by teros135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Ah, no. What division does a 32 pocket pistol fit into? Or a 25? Or a Derringer? Or any numerous other pistols smaller than 9x19? The 32 H&R magnum is a pretty stout round, but it doesn't fit anywhere. With just a little bit hotter load, it could make minor easily with a 100 grain bullet...Good point I forgot about sub 9mm guns Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 26 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said: Good point I forgot about sub 9mm guns Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk This is the one that is really messed up. The 327 magnum...32 caliber bullet...Wiki shows it with a 115 jhp at 1659 fps...That's a power factor of 190+...yet it's not legal to play with in USPSA for score... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.327_Federal_Magnum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavagai Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, Brooke said: If there were to be a trigger pull force rule, exactly who would measure it and when? Not a reasonable rule. I do not believe that an SA gun would have a significant advantage over my SA/DA CZ Shadow custom. If the SA gun was required to start hammer down it would be at a disadvantage. If the SA gun was to be started cocked and locked, then my CZ should be allowed to do that also. The rules are fine as they stand now. Leave it alone. Requiring procedures and mechanisms to measure the pull is a reasonable objection, if not insurmountable. Hammer down would work for me, even if y'all were just joking. I knew we could all agree on something. Edited November 24, 2016 by gavagai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 1 hour ago, GrumpyOne said: This is the one that is really messed up. The 327 magnum...32 caliber bullet...Wiki shows it with a 115 jhp at 1659 fps...That's a power factor of 190+...yet it's not legal to play with in USPSA for score... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.327_Federal_Magnum Are you feeding the trolls again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 20 minutes ago, teros135 said: Are you feeding the trolls again? No, but if USPSA is about DVC, then all pistols that can make the power factor (major or minor) with factory loadings should be considered, IMO. That would open USPSA up to more people than letting a SAO into Production....Of course, it would also open a huge can of worms... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now