Draw to first shot times...

[Scrmblr]

A big part of a fast draw is to start towards the guns at the VERY BEGINNING of the beep. It is much like reaction time for a drag racer. Most timers have a half second long beep, so if you aren't even starting towards your gun before the beep is done then you are already a half second behind a guy that has a faster reaction time. I RO alot of steel matches and too many people don't even start for their gun until well AFTER the beep is already done. If you are starting for the gun at the very beginning of the beep, then you should already have your hand to the gun and the gun clear of the holster before the beep is over. A great way to work on this is with slo-mo video that many of the newer smart phones have. Do some slo-mo video of your draw and then watch it. See when you start compared to the start of the beep. See where you are in the draw process when the beep is over. Make sure to use a random start so you don't just get in the habit of knowing when the timer is going to start. Some of the smart phone timer apps can also help with this. I have an app on my iPhone that picks up every little click during my draw. When I am really getting good dryfire draws the timer breakdown is usually something like this. After the start the timer picks up the click of my gun leaving my holster which is usually around .25 seconds. Then the timer app picks up when I click off the safety on my 2011. This is happening as I am getting the gun up to my eye and click off the safety at around .70 seconds. At that point I am well clear of the holster, have the dot up to my eye and I am pushing out to the target. Then the 3rd click is picked up when I finish finding the dot, knowing I have it on the target and drop the hammer....in dryfire this is usually at around .90 seconds on a 12" paper plate at maybe 15 feet. I know when I am not reacting fast enough when the first click is more like a .40, then everything else is also .20-.25 behind resulting in a 1.1-1.2 dryfire draw.

Scott,

You have to be careful with reacting to the beep. It's too easy jump the start. Since you told me about that I find myself getting to hyped up after I hear the RO and moving before the beep. I just keep hearing your voice in my head " You have to anticipate the beep after the RO speaks.​​" Guess that's something that comes with lots of practice.

Bob, I belive what I actually told you was, when at a match whether it is a squad RO that moves along with the squad, or a fixed RO that stays with the stage, I always start listening to the RO's cadence when I am in the hole and on deck. I pay attention to how long they usually wait between the standby and the beep. That way I have a better chance of being able to anticipate when he/she will beep.

On the other side of the beeping spectrum....I also pay attention to if the RO is an extremely fast beeper. SCSA rules state that the beep be 1-3 seconds after the stand-by command. You will frequently come across ROs with no pause after the SB command to the beep. If they do it to me I don't move after the beep then remind them that there needs to be a minimum 1 second. If someone short-beeps you and you don't move towards the gun they have to start you over and you cannot be penalized. If they beep you and you even flinch or start towards the gun, you bought the run.

As long as you don't have access to the trigger, it's not a "draw".

Per Rulebook:

"Draw ................................The point at which a handgun is removed or disengaged from the holster so as to allow access to any portion of the interior of the trigger guard."

[toothandnail]

A big part of a fast draw is to start towards the guns at the VERY BEGINNING of the beep. It is much like reaction time for a drag racer. Most timers have a half second long beep, so if you aren't even starting towards your gun before the beep is done then you are already a half second behind a guy that has a faster reaction time. I RO alot of steel matches and too many people don't even start for their gun until well AFTER the beep is already done. If you are starting for the gun at the very beginning of the beep, then you should already have your hand to the gun and the gun clear of the holster before the beep is over. A great way to work on this is with slo-mo video that many of the newer smart phones have. Do some slo-mo video of your draw and then watch it. See when you start compared to the start of the beep. See where you are in the draw process when the beep is over. Make sure to use a random start so you don't just get in the habit of knowing when the timer is going to start. Some of the smart phone timer apps can also help with this. I have an app on my iPhone that picks up every little click during my draw. When I am really getting good dryfire draws the timer breakdown is usually something like this. After the start the timer picks up the click of my gun leaving my holster which is usually around .25 seconds. Then the timer app picks up when I click off the safety on my 2011. This is happening as I am getting the gun up to my eye and click off the safety at around .70 seconds. At that point I am well clear of the holster, have the dot up to my eye and I am pushing out to the target. Then the 3rd click is picked up when I finish finding the dot, knowing I have it on the target and drop the hammer....in dryfire this is usually at around .90 seconds on a 12" paper plate at maybe 15 feet. I know when I am not reacting fast enough when the first click is more like a .40, then everything else is also .20-.25 behind resulting in a 1.1-1.2 dryfire draw.

Scott,

You have to be careful with reacting to the beep. It's too easy jump the start. Since you told me about that I find myself getting to hyped up after I hear the RO and moving before the beep. I just keep hearing your voice in my head " You have to anticipate the beep after the RO speaks.​​" Guess that's something that comes with lots of practice.

Bob, I belive what I actually told you was, when at a match whether it is a squad RO that moves along with the squad, or a fixed RO that stays with the stage, I always start listening to the RO's cadence when I am in the hole and on deck. I pay attention to how long they usually wait between the standby and the beep. That way I have a better chance of being able to anticipate when he/she will beep.

On the other side of the beeping spectrum....I also pay attention to if the RO is an extremely fast beepe

r. SCSA rules state that the beep be 1-3 seconds after the stand-by command. You will frequently come across ROs with no pause after the SB command to the beep. If they do it to me I don't move after the beep then remind them that there needs to be a minimum 1 second. If someone short-beeps you and you don't move towards the gun they have to start you over and you cannot be penalized. If they beep you and you even flinch or start towards the gun, you bought the run.

As long as you don't have access to the trigger, it's not a "draw".

Per Rulebook:

"Draw ................................The point at which a handgun is removed or disengaged from the holster so as to allow access to any portion of the interior of the trigger guard."

INTERESTING, Back in our motorsport racing days we studied the flagman, many times you could MAKE him drop the green flag when you wanted . The GOOD flagmen, would screw you over for trying(I did many as well )

I haven't tried much with the shooting "flagmen" , gonna have to do some experimenting .

So as long as the TG doesn't clear the holster I'm good?

[warpspeed]

So as long as the TG doesn't clear the holster I'm good?

no

SC has a specified start position - wrists above shoulders.

So as long as your wrists are still above your shoulders when the beep goes off - you are GTG.

[toothandnail]

OH, I forgot why I came to post here in the first place.

Did some practice to night , 6"x6" steel at 15 yds,

I got 1 at .79 , I anticipated the beep and jumped a bit.

Did quite a few in the 1.5 sec range

I'd say the avg consistent times were 1.6

Some of the bad ones were in the 1.9 - 2 sec

This was with my new 2011, just switched from a G17, this was the 4th or 5th time out with it.

This thing is amazing

[warpspeed]

I can usually draw and hit a 10' plate at 10 yds in 1.5 cold. 1.3 after a bit of a warm up. 0.9 is just throwing a shot in the general direction and I get a hit every 4th or 5th time.

It is good to work on a 12" at 20 yds too. that is the draw I'd like to get consistent at 1.5

[wyliearms]

I can usually draw and hit a 10' plate at 10 yds in 1.5 cold. 1.3 after a bit of a warm up. 0.9 is just throwing a shot in the general direction and I get a hit every 4th or 5th time.

It is good to work on a 12" at 20 yds too. that is the draw I'd like to get consistent at 1.5

That's almost identical to where I am. I had some really steady 1.2 and 1.3's at the 10" at 10 range. I'm trying to set up my first target to replicate the distance and size of the first target for each stage. Next I'm going to replicate first shot to move to shot. I screw that stage up pretty good because we rarely shoot it locally.

[photoracer]

Like I said I knew I was rusty having not done much drawing in a few years since I have been doing mostly rimfire and now pistol caliber carbine. When training with Max my 100% hit draw time was mostly around 1.5s with maybe a low of 1.29s. That was with the G34. I think I am a little faster with the STI but I am betting the difference is really minimal. Right now that .3-.5s interval is the difference between shooting below 10s on the faster stages and not. More practice is required, but you still have to maintain the 100% hit rate. Like Robby Orent used to tell me, practice at 100% speed and do matches at 80% speed. What he meant by that was practice at the fastest speed you can maintain and work on accuracy but shoot matches at the speed you never miss. Let the other guys get the misses.

Edited June 13, 2016 by photoracer

[KelsonAK]

My 'go fast' draw on a smoke 'n hope kind of target is about .9 - sometimes a skosh faster but not very often. My match mode is about 1.1-1.2 ish. For a 12" round at the same distance it goes to 1.3 and for 10" it creeps up to 1.4ish generally.

I'm a 'B' shooter currently. The draw is not where I'll make up the most time

[Flexmoney]

INTERESTING, Back in our motorsport racing days we studied the flagman, many times you could MAKE him drop the green flag when you wanted . The GOOD flagmen, would screw you over for trying(I did many as well )

I haven't tried much with the shooting "flagmen" , gonna have to do some experimenting .

I've seen the same in shooting. Countless times. I've always advocated setting the timer for a random beep, for that reason.

[Nimitz]

Unfortunately, the current Steel Challenge rules calls for the RO to use the same cadence for all 5 strings with a shooter ... Doesn't say he can't use: "stand-by ... 2 sec .. Beep" for the first shooter & "stand-by ... 3 secs ... Beep" for the next but ...

[rowdyb]

8" round at 8 yards, 0.90 all day.

[ZackJones]

Unfortunately, the current Steel Challenge rules calls for the RO to use the same cadence for all 5 strings with a shooter ... Doesn't say he can't use: "stand-by ... 2 sec .. Beep" for the first shooter & "stand-by ... 3 secs ... Beep" for the next but ...

I don't follow you. They currently state "Stand by" this command should be followed by the start signal in 1-4 seconds. That gives the RO the opportunity to vary his/her cadence.

[Nimitz]

hmmmm .... I see where 5.3.3 just says the start signal will be given 1-4 secs later but every major I've been too the ROs make a point of telling the shooters that their start signal cadence will be the same for every string. I also thought I read that same thing somewhere .... BWDIK ...

[ZackJones]

You won't hear RO's at SC state they will use the same cadence. We, as RO's may have a natural cadence we use but having an RO tell you they will use the same cadence is BS. Unless I don't fully understand what you are saying.

[perttime]

When I start people (any timed shooting sport) I like to set a random start with a 1 or 2 second range. Then, even I don't know exactly when the beep will sound.

[photoracer]

Me neither. I shoot consistently right in the middle of the B range even with a draw of 1.3-1.5, probably due to all the steel matches I shoot as my transitions are very good. But I can get the shot off with a rimfire (and maybe PCC sometimes) before the beep ends. With a draw I can get my hand on the gun firmly when the beep stops. But I have above normal reflexes also, although at my age I am not sure how much I have slowed down (68yo) since those days in the lab at LASL.

Edited June 21, 2016 by photoracer

[photoracer]

I know when I am ROing my cadence is the same, around 1-1.25s.

[Fredfredfred]

Remember, draw times can vary depending on type of gun and holster you are using. Someone with a production set up and someone with a Limited set up are not going to have the same draw times.

As for me, Limited holster is a average of 1.2 sec, thats a draw and hit 100 percent. My production set up is 1.8 seconds for a draw and hit.

As I time myself I see picking up more time making transition shots and what order I shoot. I found out I can gain up to 2 seconds changing my order and getting my hits.

[photoracer]

Yeah I know about the holster issues since I occasionally shoot SS in SC. That is what makes it more amazing that Max shot a 6 second S&H in Florida in Production with a P320.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Don't get fooled by "time to first shot" ...

I've shot the first shot under a second, and then had to re-adjust my grip

for the 2nd shot.

"Time to 2nd shot" is probably much more important - it means you are forced

to acquire a proper grip the first time and maintain it thru the 2nd shot.

[GunBugBit]

Good point, Jack, as a grip isn't much good if it can't support a string of (at least two) accurate and quick shots.