Best way to manually decock hammer?

[teros135]

What is the base rate of anyone having an AD while decocking a CZ? How often does it actually happen?

If it's rare, most of us are doing just fine. Personally, I haven't seen it, as a competitor or RO.

[pointerman1967]

Ironarcher, we are required to drop the hammer all the way down, and CZ Shadows don't have a firing pin block.

here is me doing it wrong, on purpose

https://youtu.be/OvEQFu4n7us

You are also doing it wrong in this video. The method you are using makes it much easier to accidentally set off the round. You need to flip your thumb around so that your thumb nail is against the hammer so you are rolling from your thumb nail onto the fleshy portion of your thumb. This method results in a little teeny pinch of your flesh as the hammer is going down and makes it really hard to screw it up. Your method does not appear as safe.

On a side note, thanks for doing the video. My fear of screwing it up and jacking up my thumb is gone now. Now the only fear is a DQ.

[teros135]

Well, yeah, he said he was intentionally doing it wrong in the video...

[IronArcher]

Still see zero reason to drop it fully. Hell, SOME DA/SA safety only guns DO have a firing pin block, making the 1/2 cock method even THAT much safer as you can take your finger off the trigger BEFORE pulling your finger/thumb off of the hammer.

Still looking for someone to explain how going to fully down is somehow safer.

[teros135]

I don't think anybody said putting the hammer fully down was "safer".

Anyway, that's not the issue. It's the rule. Do it or dont do it, take the consequences. Work to change the rule if you don't like it (start by contacting NROI). Or you could stop shooting DA/SA CZ without the decocker.

[BeerBaron]

Still see zero reason to drop it fully. Hell, SOME DA/SA safety only guns DO have a firing pin block, making the 1/2 cock method even THAT much safer as you can take your finger off the trigger BEFORE pulling your finger/thumb off of the hammer.

Still looking for someone to explain how going to fully down is somehow safer.

it's got nothing to do with 'safer' it's the rule. a DA/SA gun must start hammer down in DA mode. IF the gun has a decocker then you can start in wherever the decoker puts the hammer (some guns full decock with the button and some go to half cock). it's the way it is and makes perfect sense to me. besides which if I was carrying a DA/SA gun loaded in DA i certainly would have it hammer fully down, not sitting on half cock with no safety on. far too easy for hammer to get hung up and cocked at which point you have a 2lb SA trigger with no safety applied at all.

[slavex]

As noted, I was purposely doing it wrong in the video in an attempt to show that you need to do it slowly to make it safe (regardless of where you stop). However, when I do it for real I still use the pad of my thumb on the hammer, pinning it, and then rotating my hand/thumb so that it rolls up and, getting a slight pinch at the end as it presses on my nail. I've seen it done reverse and find that awkward for me, but either is still miles ahead of the pinch method, which is miles ahead of the single hand method I've seen waaay too many times. Where you grip the gun with your strong hand and use your strong hand thumb to decock (think of the way you'd see old school cowboys do it sometimes in the tv shows). Had a guy do it that way and it fired, the slide came back hit his thumb, he lost his grip and the gun did a few 360 revolutions through the air and came to land on the ground, cocked, point straight back at me (soft dirt and barkmulch). He actually argued the DQ saying it was a mechanical malfunction. I got in trouble from the RM for calling the guy a few nasty names as he argued the DQ with me.

[nahanshew89]

I tried the roll method with my S&W 59 and my 1911. Obviously with the 1911 it was just for poops and laughs, and my 59 has a decocker, but I had to check it out. Seems like a much, much safer way to decock than the pinch and lower method. I'm gonna show my CZ buddies this method.

[IronArcher]

Still see zero reason to drop it fully. Hell, SOME DA/SA safety only guns DO have a firing pin block, making the 1/2 cock method even THAT much safer as you can take your finger off the trigger BEFORE pulling your finger/thumb off of the hammer.

Still looking for someone to explain how going to fully down is somehow safer.

it's got nothing to do with 'safer' it's the rule.

Just waiting for that line to sink in a little bit....

[BeerBaron]

It's also not less safe. They are about equally 'dangerous'. Lowering to half cock still requires pulling the trigger while holding/blocking the hammer. At that point if your finger slips you'd have to be superman to get off the trigger fast enough to get it to catch on half cock.

In fact lowering (or attempting to lower) to half cock could be considered as dangerous as if hammer slips between cocked and half cock it'll almost certainly deliver enough energy to ignite a primer. If lowering to full cock and you slipped out after the half cock notch chances are no ignition.

Neither is dangerous in my book. Just normal safe gun handling.

Edited April 19, 2016 by BeerBaron

[bthoefer]

I tried the roll method with my S&W 59 and my 1911. Obviously with the 1911 it was just for poops and laughs, and my 59 has a decocker, but I had to check it out. Seems like a much, much safer way to decock than the pinch and lower method. I'm gonna show my CZ buddies this method.

I can verify the thumb roll method works safely with a 1911. Every once in a while I shoot single stack for a break from production. I have decocked my 1911 a couple of times.

Edited April 19, 2016 by bthoefer

[bikerburgess]

Still see zero reason to drop it fully. Hell, SOME DA/SA safety only guns DO have a firing pin block, making the 1/2 cock method even THAT much safer as you can take your finger off the trigger BEFORE pulling your finger/thumb off of the hammer.

Still looking for someone to explain how going to fully down is somehow safer.

on SOME guns it is plenty safe to go to half cock, on other guns it is just a LESS cocked hammer sitting over a firing pin with the safety off that you now intend to holster. Your argument is the same as saying SOME 1911s have firing pin blocks therefore we should not have a rule requiring the safety be applied on them

[IronArcher]

That still needs the hammer pulled back to full cock before it will fire.

[DagoRed]

So just to summarize, and granted I'm a few into a bottle of eagle rare;

The rule is there purposely to put safety second to trying to even it out for people that have made a choice about which gun to shoot. So that the first out of 20-30 trigger pulls will be a little harder? I just can't believe that logic told them (whomever makes these rules) that would be a big enough advantage to warrant all the potential accidental discharges.

Like was said, doesn't matter opinion, rules is rules. If I get an SP01 I'll stay away from production.

Red

[teros135]

Hope you do.

[Bunsen]

Thumb rolling method all the way.

[teros135]

I finger roll the hammer.

I've never even been close to a problem. Never seen an AD with either the roll or hammer pinch method. Maybe there have been a few nationally (anyone have data?) but they seem to be few and far between.

[Piripi2meke]

I have been super careful decocking my Cz 75 Orange in production. I have had an AD using the pinch method during practice with oily fingers. The process of lowering all the way down is inherently unsafe compared to going to the safety notch with only a very temporary actuation of the trigger required to do so. It does appear the rule accepts an unusual amount of risk for the sake of an extra 1/8" trigger pull on what is already well and truly a DA pull.

[teros135]

Yes, that's the fo%mula. Pinch method...oily fingers...higher risk.

You might try the finger or thumb rolling method, which seems to work well for just about everyone.

[slavex]

regarding all the "potential dangers" of decocking. the only potential danger is going home early. Or if you are out practicing, sending a round downrange that you could have got some practice with. So long as the gun is pointed in a safe direction, it going off during this procedure is not a big deal. we aren't talking about people doing this to carry their guns, or to do so after a gunfight, we are talking about doing it at a range during a match or practice. As for why IPSC made the rule in the first place, it was done so that these guns could become compliant in a new division that was being formed, Production division, accepting them in SA would have been a waste of time as there are other divisions that have SA guns. It allowed for the creation of the largest division in the sport and covered the largest amount of guns available. Otherwise it would have been the Glock/Beretta division with a few odd balls thrown in.

[Piripi2meke]

As far as the no real risk sentiment goes, my thumb knuckle had a nice series of cuts that accurately resembled the rear face of my slide, but yes the projectile proceeded downrange without incident. The creation of the production class was to allow production guns? Well the producer of my one made a safety notch/half cock just off fully down to enable a safer decock. Don't get why I can't use it just for the sake of a fractionally longer DA trigger pull. I would understand if the competition was so close that the few one hundredths of a second to travel the extra 1/8" mattered.

[slavex]

for guns that have a decock lever you can use the half cock notch, because you don't want a hammer dropping with force on the firing pin (even if it has a block, it's bad for it). However, if you don't have a decock lever, it's hammer down all the way. I've posted the video of what happens when you screw up a decock, you'd have to try really really hard to actually damage yourself with the slide coming back. The half cock position wasn't originally designed to be the place the hammer rested on these guns, it was designed to catch the hammer if something went wrong and it was dropped without pulling the trigger. As, back in the day cocked and locked was such a mainstay.

However if you don't want to run your gun that way, that's fine, you just don't get to shoot IPSC/USPSA half cocked, and I doubt very very much you'll be able to convince anyone to even suggest a rule change. Sorry

[IronArcher]

As far as the no real risk sentiment goes, my thumb knuckle had a nice series of cuts that accurately resembled the rear face of my slide, but yes the projectile proceeded downrange without incident. The creation of the production class was to allow production guns? Well the producer of my one made a safety notch/half cock just off fully down to enable a safer decock. Don't get why I can't use it just for the sake of a fractionally longer DA trigger pull. I would understand if the competition was so close that the few one hundredths of a second to travel the extra 1/8" mattered.

^ this!

[TonytheTiger]

How is it USPSA's fault if you goof up and bleed a little? The rules in place ensured the bullet went in a safe direction, the rest is on you.