DVC LIMITED- Violent recoil

[jtrump]

So.... I've tried about every recoil spring possible from 11 to 14lb, variable and standard. I'm shooting VVn320 behind a bayou 180g bullet, I'm making a 168.9pf consistently with single digit SD's... My gun is still all over the place..

I was informed that the gun comes with a 15lb mainspring...... Curious to know if switching that out to a 17lb mainspring like I've always shot in my single stack etc will make the gun less violent. As far as loads go, mine should be about as soft as I'm going to get, I've tried several powders and even 200g bullets.

I mean when I'm shooting a limited gun and it feels about as violent as a stock single stack shooting 230g factory ball ammo, something has to be wrong right?

I know that it's going to increase my trigger pull a little which I'm not a big fan of, but what do you guys think?

Edited March 14, 2016 by jtrump

[45 Raven]

I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but I can't quite get my mind around a 180 gr. bullet at around 940 FPS in a pistol that weighs 41 oz. producing "violent" recoil.

I am also no math wizard but would guesstimate that this pistol/load combination should generate about 25% more recoil energy than a Glock G34 shooting a 124 gr. bullet at 1050-1100 FPS and generating a PF of only 130-136.

Have you been shooting a .45 single stack previously and were you expecting significantly less recoil?

Edited March 15, 2016 by 45 Raven

[Hi-Power Jack]

I'm shooting a limited gun and it feels about as violent as a stock single stack shooting 230g factory ball ammo, something has to be wrong right?

I've shot a Lmtd gun shooting .40 major, and a SS 230 factory ball, and the Lmtd gun felt

much softer to me.

Are you absolutely positive about the velocity of your loads?

[sfinney]

Are you loading "long" or standard .40 length? How many grains of N320 are you using in your load?

In similar guns I've used 17 pound mainsprings and 12.5 pound recoil springs, fwiw.

Edited March 15, 2016 by sfinney

[Erttactics]

My DVC is snappy, compared to a Glock 9mm, much more snappy, are you gripping real tight? There is quite a bit in reciprocating mass from those heavier slides.

[jtrump]

I mean I've shot a lot of 230g ball ammo in a stock 1911 before I got into competition, and still occasionally to this day. I also shot two matches in SS using 200g SWC over 5.0g of w231 which was making like a 166PF, my SS .45 feels powder puff compared to my limited gun.

I've used two different chronograph's, and chrono'd the loads several times I always end up at 168/169PF. Now jack I'm not saying the limited gun is as violent as a stock 1911 shooting 230grain ball, but it's not soft shooting for that power factor kind like Raven mentioned... Nothing about this bullet/powerder/gun should be violent.

But a guy who is mentoring me shoots limited and open and has an M card in both, after my very first stage of the match he said you need to let me shoot that gun after the match before we leave.. It's moving all over the place it's very violent...

I'm not a small guy, I'm a typical 5'10/185 Athletic, I do a lot of strength and conditioning, and my grip strength is pretty ridiculous. I'm using a proper grip, I don't shoot standing straight up I have a solid aggressive base and am just trying to sort this out.

[jtrump]

Are you loading "long" or standard .40 length? How many grains of N320 are you using in your load?

In similar guns I've used 17 pound mainsprings and 12.5 pound recoil springs, fwiw.

180g Bayou, @ 1.180 OAL, 4.5G VVN320 168/169PF.

[jtrump]

My DVC is snappy, compared to a Glock 9mm, much more snappy, are you gripping real tight? There is quite a bit in reciprocating mass from those heavier slides.

This is what bothers me, the slide is lightened quite a bit if I'm not mistaken? But would that mainspring slow down that slide coming back so fast, other than using something like a flat bottom firing pin stop which I really don't want to file and fit one again ?

As far as my grip, I have my right hand as high as it can go and wedged, my support hand does most of the grip work to keep the gun steady, And still, to watch the sights as recoil happens, hell I loose the dot on a bill drill.... Even when shooting slow splits it's not flat shooting at all.

Edited March 15, 2016 by jtrump

[jtrump]

I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but I can't quite get my mind around a 180 gr. bullet at around 940 FPS in a pistol that weighs 41 oz. producing "violent" recoil.

I am also no math wizard but would guesstimate that this pistol/load combination should generate about 25% more recoil energy than a Glock G34 shooting a 124 gr. bullet at 1050-1100 FPS and generating a PF of only 130-136.

Have you been shooting a .45 single stack previously and were you expecting significantly less recoil?

I shot SS before, I was anticipating the .40 being a little more snappy especially depending on the powder/ type of bullet I decided to shoot. I would like to mention that when I got it out of the box and went to the range and shot some 165G Winchester white box ammo through it to get the break in period.. that ammo was making around 181PF and it almost felt better than any of my reloads now haha..

4.5N320 168/169PF

4.2 Titegroup 169.9pf

4.8 W231 167.7pf

[Bamboo]

The firing pin stop shape (radius) can noticeably affect the smoothness of the gun. Might be worth investigating and trying a different FPS profile.

[sfinney]

IMO , 45 is a push, .40 is a snap. It could be defined as violent. Faster up and down. But tracks fast when sprung right. Did the other guy shoot it? What was his opinion?

Couple things to check... is your recoil spring the right length <for your gun> , may need trimming to keep from fully compressing before stroke is complete...

or if you are running buffers, take them out.

200 grain bullets and a heavy recoil spring may give you more of a .45 feel.

Try someone else (or factory?) loads.

But if others shoot it and say somethings wrong, not sure... maybe back to STI.

[jtrump]

He shot it, we thought maybe it was the load I was using

180g Bayou with 4.8g of w231 making 169PF it is not as soft as titegroup or N320 that's for sure, He did say something wasn't right with the gun. He then asked his friend for a few of his rounds "coated bullets" and I shot them through my gun they felt like powder puffs, But after doing some math I've come to the conclusion this guy is sandbagging local match's with no chrono. I tried the same load at got 155PF.

I'm not sure how to determin if the recoil spring is the right length for my gun, I am currently not running any buffers however I did just order some with a variety of 11lb springs to try.

I don't want to send the gun back to STI ;( FL Sectional championship is at my home range end of next month

In advance I appreciate everyone input and if we can get this thing feeling right I would be very grateful.

[motosapiens]

my SS .45 feels powder puff compared to my limited gun.

this is also my experience. If you are used to a 230 gr bullet, any load you can come up with in a 180 grain bullet is going to feel snappier and perhaps more 'violent'. I think everyone's 45 shoots softer than everyone's 40 limited gun. fwiw, it really hurts my feelings to shoot my 45 right now because all i have loaded up is 172pf 200gr SWCs. MUCH more snappier and violent than 230gr.

However I also only notice it for a day or so if I switch between guns, so if I were the op I would do 1 of 2 things (or maybe both);

switch to 200 grain bullets

man up

edit.... on the off chance that something else is going on, i would ask around and get someone else with a nice limited gun (maybe even a dvc) to shoot a few round with you where you can both try each gun. Don't pick a cheater that is declaring major but shooting minor.

Edited March 15, 2016 by motosapiens

[jtrump]

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.trumpower/posts/239409386395799"

4.2G Titegroup making 169.9PF 12lb wolff variable recoil spring.

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.trumpower/posts/236519556684782

4.8G w231 167.7PF

Edited March 15, 2016 by jtrump

[jtrump]

switch to 200 grain bullets

man up

Don't pick a cheater that is declaring major but shooting minor.

Tried some 200g FMJ's with 4.0G Titegroup didn't feel any different to the 180s.. I shot 200g SWC in single stack, but lead coated.

Yea the cheater thing I learned the hard way and now have some silhouette that will collect dust for a long time sitting under my bench.

[Trent1k1]

I have about 40k rounds through my basically stock Edge. Obviously, I'm quite familiar with the recoil.

I shot my bullets through my friends DVD and it was very snappy to me.

Same thing happened with another friends semi-custom Limited gun with an extremely lightened slide.

For a new to 40 shooter, it may be too snappy. When you get to the higher levels, having that light, quick slide may come in handy so you don't have to wait for the slide.

Good luck with it, but I think the physics of a lightened slide coming back so quickly is what you are experiencing.

[Majority1775]

Good info, thanks for posting everyone

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Erttactics]

You shoot almost the exact load as me 180 blue bullet, 4.6 tite group at 1.185. my friend and I both shot the other day and commented on how we need to chrono our loads now that it has warmed up some here in Ohio they seemed really snappy! Not sure why? Hope you figure it out. How does it feel cycling it by hand? Smooth? No hang ups?

[jtrump]

Hmm didn't know titegroup to be to temp sensitive.. Time to bring a cooler full of ice, and set some out in the sun and run them through the chrono

[jtrump]

I have about 40k rounds through my basically stock Edge. Obviously, I'm quite familiar with the recoil.

I shot my bullets through my friends DVD and it was very snappy to me.

Same thing happened with another friends semi-custom Limited gun with an extremely lightened slide.

For a new to 40 shooter, it may be too snappy. When you get to the higher levels, having that light, quick slide may come in handy so you don't have to wait for the slide.

Good luck with it, but I think the physics of a lightened slide coming back so quickly is what you are experiencing.

This is what I believe to be happening, I like the gun cycles and runs fast, but I'm just starting off and Will get classified this month starting out in B class. I don't know that I need the gun to run as fast as it does, so how do I slow it down, besides a firing pin stop with a slight radius and or a mainspring.

Is this something I can get use to? I suppose... But it defiantly holds me back a lot when I can't call my shots unless I shoot slower than molasses.

Edited March 15, 2016 by jtrump

[jtrump]

You shoot almost the exact load as me 180 blue bullet, 4.6 tite group at 1.185. my friend and I both shot the other day and commented on how we need to chrono our loads now that it has warmed up some here in Ohio they seemed really snappy! Not sure why? Hope you figure it out. How does it feel cycling it by hand? Smooth? No hang ups?

Cycling by hand it's as smooth as butter... So smooth, its a tight fit gun but it's had about 2.5k rounds through the pipe now it should be nicely broken in.

[MrPostman]

Try a 19lb main spring with a 11lb or 10lb recoil spring. The 19lb will allow you to drop some weight on the recoil spring. You may even want to go higher on the main spring. In theory this will slow down the opening and closing of the slide slightly so the gun will feel a bit less snappy. Cheap to try, just a few springs.....

[Erttactics]

I agree, I have about 3k through mine and it feels as tight as the day I bought it. I will chrono tomorrow and see what I come up with.

[SWprotected]

I agree with Trent, I shot a stock edge for 2 years and it was pretty soft shooting with 170pf ammo. When I decided to have it chromed I also had the slide lightened. The thing I noticed when I got it back was the recoil hit me harder in the palm of my hand, but with the lighter slide and lighter recoil spring my times on certain drill like the Bill drill and Blake drill were a little faster. I think this is because the sights return a little quicker, so its a trade off.

[sfinney]

Similar story. EDGE with 5" slide, stock - pretty soft. Added cuts - little snappier. Tri-topped it - really snappy. Liked where it was going though, fast handling. So, more cuts and internal lightening, cut back the dust cover.... oops, now it sucked to shoot, it was so snappy. Sold it.

There is a reason a stock Edge is so popular.... more forgiving to shoot. The lighter and the more cuts on your gun, the more it becomes like an F1 race car - handles real fast, but is twitchy and takes all your concentration to drive.