Limitted 10 Gun Recommendation

[Rikarin]

Hello

I am doing IDPA with Glock but our area has only couple of IPSC production shooters. Thinking about doing limitted 10 and need input on what gun would be the choice, because I do not like glock at all!

I know it would be single stack 1911s but which one? Criteria would be:

1) light weight (I love polymer guns)

2) 9mm

3) hoefully, something I can take apart and work on like Glock

4) easy to manage recoil ( I like the gun which recoil back, rather than snappy)

5) Good for small body small hand female shooter

Maybe load miner on .40 would be good idea for recoil?

Thanks!

Oh, update:

1) I took Matt Burkett's class again. It was awsome! So much homework again.

2) My reloading with VV310.147gr is working great.

3) Will cut my clothing/cosmetic budget and buy Dillon650, even thought it doesn't match with my interior at all, unless it comes with white.

4) Placed 6th in IDPA/SSP out of 26 shooters.

All thanks to your help. (and Matt's)

[XRe]

In L-10, you probably want to be shooting Major PF - otherwise, you're at a disadvantage. You can shoot widebody 1911s, as well - just load 10 rounds.

If you want a singlestack, I'd suggest going with a steel framed, bushing barreled gun. You could go w/ an aluminum frame, but I'd be concerned about longevity. The bushing barrel will be lighter than a bull barrel gun, and you can shoot it in IDPA, as well. I dont' know what the weight of a bushing barrel STI widebody is. The widebodies have a little more margin of error for reloading, but both will work fine for L-10.

.45 is about as opposite of "snappy" as you can get, especially when you load it properly. It should end up more as a "roll" than a "snap" - which, I think, is what you're talking about??

Also, realize that a little extra weight will help soak up some of that snap

[Loves2Shoot]

I second the buy a widebody if you want to spend some $$$ You can play in two divisions, get a bushing barrel and you can play in IDPA also.

If you want a single stack, get a custom made on a Caspian slide/frame with the integrated mag well.

[Carlos]

"2) My reloading with VV310.147gr is working great."

Glad to hear it. THere is some technical data on this load that I posted over on glocktalk.com iff you go to the section called GSSF Competition and look for my recent post: Anderson load, Team Shooters Paradise GSSF. Regards,

D.C. Johnson

[Nemo]

Hola Rikarin!

Good to see you here again. We're gonna have to put you in touch with our Forum Queens (SigLady, Shooter Grrl, ReneeT, CarinaB, Sniper, et.al) so you don't disappear for so long again.

So, don't like Glock and want to try L10... Let's see. Leave shooting minor power factor for production division. I have a 12 year old, 80-pound son that can handle major 40 loads, so you can too. I'd recommend a 40S&W regular profile S_I frame (non-long dust cover) with a bushing barrel. The grip can be reduced to your liking and if later on you decide to venture into limited it'll do.

Another option, since you like polymer pistolas so much, would be a Springfield XD. The grip frame diameter and angle seem to be more ergonomic than the Glock. I hear Richard Dettelhouser (see dealers forum) can work magic on those. You could also give the single stack 1911 a try. If having one built doesn't work for you, check out the STI Trojan. CZ guns also have very comfy grips, check with forum member Matthew Mink.

Loading to minor to avoid recoil would put you at a competitive disadvantage in Ltd ad L10. You already have the reloading equipment... work with it until you find a load that you like and can handle. In 40 cal. work with the heavier bullets to obtain more of a "plush" recoil instead of a snap.

Glad to see you have been heavily working on your shooting progress and your reloading. Cut backs on clothing and cosmetics to get a 650? Good call! Don't worry about the Dillon Blue, it goes well with any color, but also keep in mind that is the opinion of a 40 year old retrosexual color-blind shooter!! Keep practicing and kicking serious butt!

Cheers!

Edited April 13, 2005 by Nemo

[Ron Ankeny]

If you want a single stack, get a custom made on a Caspian slide/frame with the integrated mag well.

The race ready frame does make a great foundation for a really nice L10 single stack. I have one in the works now.

[Putty]

I would suggest a Hi cap limited 40 gun as mentioned above as you can shoot both L-10 and limited. You can have a smith grind down the wide body grips to fit your hand better if that is an issue ( I had that done for some grip tape applique).

Why shoot minor unless your loading down for steel?

Call a good smith and discuss your options. Benny Hill at triangleshootingsports.com is a great smith as well as a good advisor. He will point you in the right direction for not only components but shooting/guns/barbecues.

Isshin

[Flexmoney]

Rikarin,

From your past posts, and this one, it really seems if the grip size is one of the most important issues for you?

The grip (and stance) allows you to manage the recoil (which seems to be the real goal).

You are likely going to have to just try different stuff and see how it feels. The best place to do that is to ask the friendly shooters at your range. They will have a better assortment of guns than just about any gun shop.

- STI/SV

- STI/SV with modified grip

- Para

- Caspian DOUBLE stack

- Kimber single stack

- Springfield XD

...

[D.Hayden]

Once you narrow it down.. post what you'd like to try, I'm sure there's enough people at Richmond that would let you try any type you'd like.

My wife shoots a Glock 35, with Minor loads.. she likes the grips, and if you can belibve it, the factory sights. CGR did the trigger

[G+16]

might consider a springfield 1911 45 acp, handfull of chip mccormick 10 rounders,

you can download a 45 acp to match the power factor for major with no problem

I use hod.clays with 230 FMJ, and get right at 166-168 PF on chromy, parts a plenty, and pretty good and pricing.

[Rikarin]

Hello

Somehow, quote pop-up window is not working so reply to all.

thanks for the inputs. Mmm, other than XD (which I really like) I can not even recognize any. Got bug guys at the Richimond to let me shoot theres.

Yes, I like "roll" recoil and love my .45 but too much to handle for the match.

So far, recoil management is the #1 problem. When I loaded 110PF ammo, I was shooting so well. But this might be problem of Glock. Also,I found heavier the gun, more force needed to totting it, therefore I have to throw around like a hammer and can not steady it well.

Nemo: I didn't have questions for a while, so didn't come here. Didn't mean to disapear!

I thought if its :L-10, I don't have to spend too much $$$ but sounds like its not???

Carls: thanks for the data! I will check it out!

[Loves2Shoot]

I thought if its :L-10, I don't have to spend too much $$$ but sounds like its not???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You only have to spend as much as you want over about $500, but if you want a trick L10 gun (remember L10 and Limited only differ in mag capacity) so, might as get one you can play in different divisions in That way you can go where the challenges are.

From the sounds of things you can even make a XD a $1K + gun.

[JakeMartens]

Are you sure you want to shoot L10?

Why not Production, try a Sig 226 stainless in 9mm with a short trigger, send it to Bruce Gray and he can get the trigger pull down to 4lbs da/2lbs sa

The 226 in stainless in 9mm has almost zero felt recoil.

Or do the same in 40S&W for L10. You get a major gun with very little felt recoil.

In single stack for L10, I would suggest a bull barrel, tungstun guide rod, full dust cover with a magwell and adjustable sights. Get the thin grip panels and stick with .45acp.

The full dust cover, bull barrel and tungstun guide rod will help control recoil. A short trigger with arched mainspring and thin grip panels will help with small hands.

Load your .45acp with 230gr ball to a 168 pf and you are ready to roll with a more controllable gun.

(Think Springfield TRP Operator has full lenght dust cover, adjustable sights, ambi's, magwell etc, just needs thin grip panels and short trigger and Tungstun guide rod)

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/p...C9105LLarge.jpg

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-op.shtml

[XRe]

So far, recoil management is the #1 problem.  When I loaded 110PF ammo, I was shooting so well.  But this might be problem of Glock.  Also,I found heavier the gun, more force needed to totting it, therefore I have to throw around like a hammer and can not steady it well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rikarin, I just looked at your profile - I can see why a heavy gun is giving you problems Here are some thoughts.

Most of recoil management is in grip and stance - keeping working the stuff that you've learned in Matt's class!!

You're right - a steel gun is definitely heavier and harder to move around. What kind of .45 do you have? You can actually "work out" with your gun - if your .45 is all steel, you can do things like taking a stance with the gun in your grip, and just holding it for as long as you can, pointed at a target. Do that several times a day - you will strengthen your shoulders, back, and arms in no time, and holding the gun up and moving it around won't be such an issue. It will help you shoot the Glock, too

Since you're reloading - you can reload .45 to a pretty low PF and have some *very* soft shooting loads. You'd still declare minor (to be within the rules) if you're shooting minor loads, but you could gradually work up as your technique and strength improve, until you're shooting Major PF loads with no problem.

Other than that - you only gain two things by going to L-10 from Production. Different leather positioning possibilities, and the ability to shoot a single action trigger. As a trade off, you have to shoot major PF to take full advantage of it. You might be best served by staying in Production short term, and working up to a limited or L-10 gun. Obviously, based on the replies, there are a lot of ways to go

Take heart in the fact that there have been a lot of successful lady shooters out there with slim builds who all manage to handle Major PF loads in limited guns - it can be done, and you can do it. It just takes some work and some patience, if it's what you want to do!

One last thought - if you're mainly competing in IDPA, and not USPSA, a 1911 in 9mm (or a wide-body STI/SVI framed gun - might be lighter) would probably be a nice change for you. Lower recoil than the Glock (though possibly a little heavier), but better trigger, etc.

Good luck!

Dave

edit - I'm a bonehead. You've *had* some good instruction from Burkett!!

[Rikarin]

I have been playing with grip shape with playdough and came to the conclusion its the grip shape, rather than size.

I can dump a magazine (Matt's recoil management drill) no problem without grip/stance changing. But when I comapare my stage drawing and score, I my score is really good when the stage has lots of arm's reach targets but bad when targets are far. Also, when I watch the video, I take so much time for re-aquisition of the sights, especially for long range target. And I shot my friends 1911 (Springfield) and like Whoa! What a great trigger! Glock's triger kinda circles around and its keep-on messing me. ( I have 2.5lb trigger)

So

1) Need a better grip shape, if gun doesn't flip much, eas to get sighted pair.

2) I need a longer barrel gun (I have no idea why the heck G-19 I chose

3) Good crisp short trigger.

Those are the ones I am trying to overcome now and thought single stack, SA-only sounds like a good choice to overcome those. But hey, $$$$!

Totting around heavy gun really helps. I do Braizilian Jiujitsu too and kind have a strong arms

I think if I can find good grip .40, I might be able to manage major.

Thanks!

    Rikarin, I just looked at your profile - I can see why a heavy gun is giving you problems Here are some thoughts.

    Most of recoil management is in grip and stance - keeping working the stuff that you've learned in Matt's class!!

    You're right - a steel gun is definitely heavier and harder to move around. What kind of .45 do you have? You can actually "work out" with your gun - if your .45 is all steel, you can do things like taking a stance with the gun in your grip, and just holding it for as long as you can, pointed at a target. Do that several times a day - you will strengthen your shoulders, back, and arms in no time, and holding the gun up and moving it around won't be such an issue. It will help you shoot the Glock, too

    Since you're reloading - you can reload .45 to a pretty low PF and have some *very* soft shooting loads. You'd still declare minor (to be within the rules) if you're shooting minor loads, but you could gradually work up as your technique and strength improve, until you're shooting Major PF loads with no problem.

    Other than that - you only gain two things by going to L-10 from Production. Different leather positioning possibilities, and the ability to shoot a single action trigger. As a trade off, you have to shoot major PF to take full advantage of it. You might be best served by staying in Production short term, and working up to a limited or L-10 gun. Obviously, based on the replies, there are a lot of ways to go

    Take heart in the fact that there have been a lot of successful lady shooters out there with slim builds who all manage to handle Major PF loads in limited guns - it can be done, and you can do it. It just takes some work and some patience, if it's what you want to do!

    One last thought - if you're mainly competing in IDPA, and not USPSA, a 1911 in 9mm (or a wide-body STI/SVI framed gun - might be lighter) would probably be a nice change for you. Lower recoil than the Glock (though possibly a little heavier), but better trigger, etc.

    Good luck!

    Dave

    edit - I'm a bonehead. You've *had* some good instruction from Burkett!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Rikarin]

Hmm, this gives me a food for thought. I already own .40 Sig. I LOOOVE this gun but first DA is so hard to shoot a good pair.

I will ask around today for this Operator gun to try! Thanks

Are you sure you want to shoot L10?

Why not Production, try a Sig 226 stainless in 9mm with a short trigger, send it to Bruce Gray and he can get the trigger pull down to 4lbs da/2lbs sa

The 226 in stainless in 9mm has almost zero felt recoil.

Or do the same in 40S&W for L10. You get a major gun with very little felt recoil.

In single stack for L10, I would suggest a bull barrel, tungstun guide rod, full dust cover with a magwell and adjustable sights.  Get the thin grip panels and stick with .45acp.

The full dust cover, bull barrel and tungstun guide rod will help control recoil.  A short trigger with arched mainspring and thin grip panels will help with small hands.

Load your .45acp with 230gr ball to a 168 pf and you are ready to roll with a more controllable gun.

(Think Springfield TRP Operator has full lenght dust cover, adjustable sights, ambi's, magwell etc, just needs thin grip panels and short trigger and Tungstun guide rod)

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/p...C9105LLarge.jpg

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-op.shtml

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[XRe]

But when I comapare my stage drawing and score, I my score is really good when the stage has lots of arm's reach targets but bad when targets are far.

...

So

1) Need a better grip shape, if gun doesn't flip much, eas to get sighted pair.

2) I need a longer barrel gun (I have no idea why the heck G-19 I chose

3) Good crisp short trigger.

All of those things will help. A Glock M19 is certainly not what I'd consider an accuracy gun A new barrel might help it out, but... The Glock trigger is something that seems to take most folks a while to get used to - it can be shot very accurately, but you have to spend the time on it to figure it out. The SA trigger on a 1911 seems to be easier to get along with for most folks. Working with the Glock and learning how to shoot it accurately at distance will do nothing but *improve* the rest of your game, though

Sounds like you might benefit some from longer range accuracy work, too - with either gun. Don't worry about the time it takes to get the hits - let your sight picture drive that. Learn how to aquire the sight picture quickly at longer range, and what you need to see with the gun you have to get the hits. Takes a lot of time - and can be frustrating - but it's well worth the time and money to learn the accuracy at longer range.

Personally - I'd choose the 1911 for this type of stuff, too, so I can't disagree with you there For carry, I'm much more tempted by a Glock M27 or something, but...

I think if I can find good grip .40, I might be able to manage major. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It definitely seems a little softer to me than .45, when loaded right.

Good luck

[sfinney]

If grip size is the main consideration, don't forget that an STI type widebody gun can have the grip reduced, to fit smaller hands.... and with a big huge fat magwell, it gives some support to the bottom of your hands, wedges them up into the grip.... I'd say that a .40 STI with a long dustcover and tungsten rod or recoil master will probably give you less felt recoil / muzzle flip than most 9mm Glocks shooting factory ammo that I've shot... but then again I don't seem to get along with Glocks

And later on you could shoot Limited, if desired.....

[Al Capizzo]

You might want to look at the CZ guns also. Most of their models come in either 9mm or .40, some models can be shot with either double or single action first shot, and you may find the grip poportions are what you're looking for.

Also, they are relatively inexpensive and still well built guns.

Al

[JakeMartens]

Al has a good point about CZ's, a good way to get in cheap with a good gun. The trigger reach might be a long for you.

I would ringout that Sig .40, and look up greyguns on the www.sigforum.com to get a great trigger.

Have fun and let us know what works for you

[ScottQ]

A lot of good suggestions here, and I'll add one more.

If you haven't looked at it yet, you might want to take a closer look at the Springfield XD. It's a lightweight gun, like your Glock, but has a very small grip good for small hands (like mine too) and the same grip angle as the 1911's. You can get 9mm if you want to shoot Production, or .40 S&W if you want to shoot Limited/Limited 10 and make major.

Out of the box it has, IMO, a much nicer trigger than the Glock, but for $135 or so you can have Canyon Creek or Bar-Sto do a really nice trigger job on it, and it will feel much like a 1911 trigger.

My 2 cents,

Scott

[Rikarin]

Alvin, Lily let me shoot their limitted (er, INfinity???) and open gun. Whoa! That red dot and no recoil. Is it BB gun? I want to put a classified says

" will work for open gun"

Scott, thanks for thie XD info. I LOVE that gun but wanted to know if 1911 has advantage. But if trigger is almost same, grip is almost same, XD is better idea for me. My friend have a souped up XD40 shooting miner in production and he said he can let me shoot match sometime. Lets see how it goes!

I tried CZ but DA/SA kills me and didn't like the trigger at all. Nice grip though.

Thanks for the info/idea!

[Eager]

1) Need a better grip shape, if gun doesn't flip much, eas to get sighted pair.

2) I need a longer barrel gun (I have no idea why the heck G-19 I chose 

3) Good crisp short trigger.

The XD-9 Tactical model (longer 5" barrel, might best meet all these requirements (if the grip fits you) with an added tungsten guide rod (Canyon-Creek) and the reportedly very light and quick trigger from Canyon-Creek or Bar-Sto.

The XD with a trigger job seems almost an unfair advantage against double actions in Production. I'll be putting a trigger job and better sights on mine soon.

http://www.canyon-creek.com/xd.htm

[infinity]

i would suggest 3 guns for ur need.

1. i'd go for a STI aluminum frame

2. Bul M5 polymer frame 1911 design. Check it out at www.Charlesdaly.com (M5 pisto)

3. Springfield TRP Operator, it's a singlestack with long dust cover. good for small hands and perfect recoil control wiht its long dust cover.

hope this helps

[BBQ]

Rika,

The one you shot form Alvin is a Limcat Custom Long Dust CoverLimited with Tungsten sleve barrel. Mine is a Short Dust Cover limited from SV.

The Open you shot is a Bedell Custom Shorty chambered in 9X19. It works with factory ammo UMC 115grn JHP which chrono at 126.7PF.

If you really want an SV, send me a PM. I let you know the detail.

Billy