Plinking Powder....does it really matter

[kfin]

I have the following powders "in stock". 1 pound of HP38, Clays, Clays Universal, Titegroup. And 4-6 pounds of WST and 700X (which is what I used to use all the time and loved it...only used in 45 ACP though). So I don't need to buy something tomorrow, can be patient for a while but don't want to be patient and then have another incident make almost all of them disappear for 8 months. I am getting way back into reloading and shooting my pistols, took too long off for one reason or another as life gets in the way sometimes and also supply shortages. I will now be shooting 9mm and 45 ACP about equally.

Been doing beaucoup reading on the "favorite powders" and have a list of about 6 to buy "on site"(WST, 231, HP38, 700X, Bullseye, and Titegroup) and 6 others that have gotten a lot of favorable reviews (Clay Dot, Red Dot, Clays Universal, Unique, Solo 1000, and E3). I am not trying to get a "what is the best powder thread going as everyone has an opinion and everyone has different needs/expectations. I get that.

My question is simple one, lol, I do not shoot competitively and just plink in the back yard. I plan on plinking a lot but am not making hunting and/or competition rounds. Is there that much difference for what I am doing between these powders? Or even others that are on my honorable mention list such as CFE Pistol, Autocomp, AA#5? They all make a bullet go boom and punch a piece of paper with somewhat reliable accuracy...don't they?

I ask because I am going to buy in the 8 lb jugs when I start seeing these powders available. For instance, Powder Valley has Clays Universal right now in 8 lb jugs....would I notice that much of a difference? Several pistol powders available most of the time but just not the "all time favorites". I hate to wait 6 months to find 231 if one of the "lesser powders" will be fine for me.

Sorry for the ramble but am curious as to the answers I get on this.

Thanks

[Steve RA]

Clays works very well in .45 and 9mm, especially if not trying to make Major - OK for that in .45, I wouldn't in 9mm. Also goes a long way, load wise.

[Nimitz]

To answer your question .... No it doesn't ..... Assuming all 9mm ...

But for each different powder, the amount needed, assuming the same bullet weight, to reach the same velocity, will be slightly different and you'll need to be aware of this ..... That's why competition shooters try to stick with one powder & one load ....

Edited January 8, 2016 by Nimitz

[2MoreChains]

See if you can find ETR7. Last time I bought some it was <$20/lb and shoots it seems comparable in consistency, burn rate, cleanliness as some of the higher priced powders. I now shoot ETR7 for practice and save the boutique stuff for matches. It's good for 9, 40, and 45.

[kfin]

I get the powder is not the same measurement ..... I've been reloading for lots of years and just always used 700x. I only shot 45s and it was recommended in the mid 80s, if it ain't broke why fix it philosphy.

Correct, I'm not trying to make major or make sure I stay in minor...none of that, just having fun shooting in the yard. I have checked a few manuals for various loads. Always shot 200 grain LSWC in the 45 and will probably go with 124 gr LRN for the 9mm but not totally decided on that one yet.

Would rather use a powder that I can use 4 grains than have to use 6 grains. Slower powders, faster powders in these 2 calibers.....which one uses less powder and more powder for the same bullet? Showing my ignorance here but like I said, I just always used 700x....... trying to learn. The game plan was to load several with the assortment of powders I have and pick a couple but our present leader makes me nervous as you never know when the next "shortage" will be manufactured.

[kfin]

ETR7....see that is what I'm talking about. I've never heard of that one. If you guys can use it to practice with......I can use it almost full time. lol

[kfin]

To answer your question .... No it doesn't ..... Assuming all 9mm ...

But for each different powder, the amount needed, assuming the same bullet weight, to reach the same velocity, will be slightly different and you'll need to be aware of this ..... That's why competition shooters try to stick with one powder & one load ....

So if I ever settle on one powder....I'll probably have 2? One for 45 and one for 9mm?

[kfin]

What is the determining factor in how much of a particular powder goes into a load? Say 124 LRN for 9 mm...if Powder A takes 4 grains and Powder B takes 5 grains to get to the same FPS....what is the difference? Is it the burn rate alone?

[ttolliver]

I've always heard that Unique is the jack of all trades and master of none powder.

From personal experience N320 is excellent in all 3 major (for me) calibers: 9mm, 40s&w and 45acp. Although it is expensive and sometimes hard to find, it's the powder I would buy if forced to pick just one.

Here's one observation --

Even though your goal isn't competition it's interesting that nearly every one of your powders is a really fast powder well suited to competition. No reason at all you can't load with them and enjoy the lower felt recoil for general plinking. But really fast powders do carry some risk. For instance, you can double charge Titegroup in a 9mm case but not HS-6. And I've been warned of kabooming with Clays. And so on.

So not saying they are inherently unsafe for an experienced reloader. But it just struck me that you're living closer to the edge for competition type performance with those fast powders.

[2MoreChains]

ETR7....see that is what I'm talking about. I've never heard of that one. If you guys can use it to practice with......I can use it almost full time. lol

I think if you do a search on this forum you'll probably find more users of ETR7 with some load recommendations. I use it for 9mm, .40, and .45 with no issues. Here's the interesting part: the same adjustment on my powder measurer throws the same weight of ETR7 as it does for VV N320, i.e. 4.3 gr of ETR7 is same as 4.3 gr of N320. The ETR7 throw may be a touch heavy, but since it's my practice round I don't really care. Chrono testing, both powders with a 125 gr Leatherhead RN are in the 130-132 PF range and the Std Devs are about the same (i.e. Good).

The above is nice when I switch powders since I don't have to worry about adjusting the powder measurer, me being lazy and all.

I get mine from Leatherhead Bullets since those guys are local to me. LH gets it from some stateside distributor (IIRC, ETR7 is made by some Spanish company).

[kfin]

Here's one observation --

Even though your goal isn't competition it's interesting that nearly every one of your powders is a really fast powder well suited to competition. No reason at all you can't load with them and enjoy the lower felt recoil for general plinking. But really fast powders do carry some risk. For instance, you can double charge Titegroup in a 9mm case but not HS-6. And I've been warned of kabooming with Clays. And so on.

So not saying they are inherently unsafe for an experienced reloader. But it just struck me that you're living closer to the edge for competition type performance with those fast powders.

Interesting as I have never paid attention to fast or slow. Just used my manuals, started towards the bottom and worked up until I got something close to what I liked. As stated, almost always used 700x as the person who got me into reloading many years ago used it....he was a competition shooter so that might explain the 700x. The rest of the list came mostly from this forum, so that probably explains why they are mostly powders that competitive shooters use. I'm very careful when loading so that part doesn't overly concern me. So I have picked "competition powders" and didn't even know it or that they were mostly fast burning powders.

Kind of why I started the thread was to learn more about powders, what makes them different, why use this one instead of that one, what makes one a good 9mm powder, what makes one better for 45, which ones are good for both. There is such a wealth of knowledge on here that you guys share so freely....person who does not listen is seriously missing the boat IMO......

[kfin]

ETR7....see that is what I'm talking about. I've never heard of that one. If you guys can use it to practice with......I can use it almost full time. lol

I think if you do a search on this forum you'll probably find more users of ETR7 with some load recommendations. I use it for 9mm, .40, and .45 with no issues. Here's the interesting part: the same adjustment on my powder measurer throws the same weight of ETR7 as it does for VV N320, i.e. 4.3 gr of ETR7 is same as 4.3 gr of N320. The ETR7 throw may be a touch heavy, but since it's my practice round I don't really care. Chrono testing, both powders with a 125 gr Leatherhead RN are in the 130-132 PF range and the Std Devs are about the same (i.e. Good).

The above is nice when I switch powders since I don't have to worry about adjusting the powder measurer, me being lazy and all.

I get mine from Leatherhead Bullets since those guys are local to me. LH gets it from some stateside distributor (IIRC, ETR7 is made by some Spanish company).

I will definitely do some research on ETR7.

[Alan550]

Here ya' go.............

http://expansion-industries.com/reloading/powder/pistol-powder.html?limit=all

That'll connect you to their web site. Powder works great...............their ammo? Not so much. They supplied all the .223 ammo recently for a LE Charity 3-gun match at our range and had so many misfires and complaints from the shooters that they packed up & left early.

Powder (ETR7) loads to the same chart as TiteGroup.

[kfin]

Here ya' go.............

http://expansion-industries.com/reloading/powder/pistol-powder.html?limit=all

That'll connect you to their web site. Powder works great...............their ammo? Not so much. They supplied all the .223 ammo recently for a LE Charity 3-gun match at our range and had so many misfires and complaints from the shooters that they packed up & left early.

Powder (ETR7) loads to the same chart as TiteGroup.

Thanks Alan, I'm assuming that Expansion Industries is the mfg. Not listed on Powder Valley. Can you only get it from Expansion Industries? Looks like 4 lbs is the biggest jug. I'll have to find somebody else that wants some to try out to split the hazmat fee....generally order from Powder Valley and have a few friends go in with various things.

[BeerBaron]

Faster powders generally need less powder (by weight) to achieve a given velocity.

I would suggest for what you want Clays is a great choice. Yes it's faster burning but that means less powder needed per round. It's cheap enough, fairly widely available and suits both the 124 gn 9mm and the 200gn 45 loads.

It will also make a nice soft shooting load.

[GrumpyOne]

The most versatile powder I have seen is Alliant Power Pistol. It has loads from 32 auto up to 44 mag (you could probably load 25 auto and 50 AE with it as well). It doesn't get much use in the competition area, because it is a medium fast powder, and competition either likes powders slow or fast. It's kind of bulky, very hard to double charge a case, pretty cheap, really clean, but it does have a few draw backs... it is loud and flashy.

[Alan550]

Here ya' go.............

http://expansion-industries.com/reloading/powder/pistol-powder.html?limit=all

That'll connect you to their web site. Powder works great...............their ammo? Not so much. They supplied all the .223 ammo recently for a LE Charity 3-gun match at our range and had so many misfires and complaints from the shooters that they packed up & left early.

Powder (ETR7) loads to the same chart as TiteGroup.

Thanks Alan, I'm assuming that Expansion Industries is the mfg. Not listed on Powder Valley. Can you only get it from Expansion Industries? Looks like 4 lbs is the biggest jug. I'll have to find somebody else that wants some to try out to split the hazmat fee....generally order from Powder Valley and have a few friends go in with various things.

So far as I know, they only sell direct to the consumer. He imports it from Spain in ~50# barrels, puts it into the 1# & 4# jugs and sells it that way. It's local for us, so I haven't check on shipping, hazmat, etc. That should be on that web site I quoted above.

[rev1911]

The short answer is, for back yard plinking, any and all of your powders will go bang and hit your target just fine.

But based on the thought and detail in your posts, and the fact that you're even here in the first place, probably you're able to appreciate something more

N320 has become a forum darling for good reason. It meters well, burns relatively clean, and gives great ES/SD on a chrono. It is perfect for 9mm, and very good for 45ACP. The only thing not to like is the price, and availability. Bottom line, if you find it, you owe it to yourself to try it.

All that said, I also love W231/HP38. Buy it when you find it.

Edit: I should add that this is based on the fact that I also load about equal amounts of 9mm and 45ACP.

Edited January 8, 2016 by rev1911

[kfin]

But based on the thought and detail in your posts, and the fact that you're even here in the first place, probably you're able to appreciate something more

You are correct. If I'm going to do something, I would rather do it right and have better stuff to do it. And knowing myself, once I get a bit more proficient shooting, I might begin to do some competition. My biggest fear on that is that I am incredibly competitive and afraid that I would go a bit overboard on guns.....practicing.....matches.....though I'm sure that none of you here have that problem at all. cough cough

[kfin]

N320 has become a forum darling for good reason. It meters well, burns relatively clean, and gives great ES/SD on a chrono. It is perfect for 9mm, and very good for 45ACP. The only thing not to like is the price, and availability. Bottom line, if you find it, you owe it to yourself to try it.

I have read a lot about that. Seems that I read somewhere that N310 and N320 were both good. What I remember reading was that one of them was good for both calibers, and the other only really a good consideration for 9mm. Can't remember which was which and no reason was stated. What is the difference in those two powders? Still wondering why a powder would be good for 45 but not for 9mm or vice versa.

Probably will pick up an 8 lb jug of W231/HP38 or Clays if I can ever see one of them....and then I will be less anxious about the next shortage and can wait patiently until I see some good ones to try. That will also give me some time to develop some loads in my guns with the small variety that I have and make a better decision for me/my guns as I am learning about the powder differences. I really want to settle on at the most one for 9mm and one for 45 to "stock up" on...all things in time. I have the quick change setups for both 9mm and 45 acp for my Dillon 550, so changing it out isn't bad at all.

Thanks so much for the advice

Edited January 8, 2016 by kfin

[jsg]

I admit I load for competition but I think my comments would work for you as well.

Like you say, any powder could work but do you really want to find a favorite load for each powder with each bullet and possibly for multiple guns?

There are many great choices but I shoot W231 (HP-38 is the exact same powder) in revolver (45 ACP, 38 Short Colt, and 38 SP) and I shoot Titegroup in semi-autos (9mm, 40, and 45). Both would work for all the calibers if needed.

Other than those two, Unique will work for any handgun cartridge I have seen from 32 to 44 mag and is relatively cheap.

Titegroup is also not position sensitive in a larger case so it works great for a low power plinkin' round in a long case (like 3 grains in 38 SP).

[Hi-Power Jack]

If I had 14 pounds of powder (oh, wait - I actually do), and I was just "plinking",

I'd use up all of the 14 pounds before I worried about it.

And, IMHO, you can't go too wrong with WW231 - I used it for decades, and

love it.

[perttime]

From personal experience N320 is excellent in all 3 major (for me) calibers: 9mm, 40s&w and 45acp. Although it is expensive and sometimes hard to find, it's the powder I would buy if forced to pick just one.

For me, N320 is one of the more accessible powders. Works great for my 9mm, 45ACP and pretty moderate 357 Mag loads.

Even for plinking, you want a load that makes your gun work and gives adequate accuracy in YOUR gun. You do want to hit your targets.

[ruleyoutoo1911]

I think you are on the right track, you already have a list of powders that will work well in both calibers and I like the list of ones you have to try.

I personally use alot of Titegroup for 9mm, .40, and .45. I have used Universal and CFE Pistol and loaded some good accurate 9mm loads with them but they are slower burning powders and require more powder per round. I have found that I prefer faster burning powders myself, personal preference.

I haven't used 700X yet but I have heard good things about it. I also think it is a good idea to have a short list of powders that will work in case your favorite isn't available. I would love to try some Clays myself but haven't seen it on store shelves around here in a long time.

[rdinga]

For target loads I would look no further than WST. WSF works well if you want to load a little warmer.

The Shooters Choice Powder that is a copy of AA#2 looks very interesting and is in stock at PV.