1eyedfatman Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) I shoot IDPA and USPSA and I'm experiencing occasional malfunctions with my 9mm reloads in my Glock 34 and now my G19. Too bad it only happens during a match when I'm in a hurry to clear it. But, when I look at it, I can see a new round in the ejection port like it didn't feed in correctly. It looks like its in there crooked. Often times all have to pull out the magazine and work the slide to clear it and then stick the mag back in and rack in another round. The load I'm using is: - Cimarron coated 147g flat nose 9mm (identical to Bayou 147gr) - Titegroup 3.0 - OAL 1.145 - Winchester or CCI primers - Used, mixed brass cleaned and lubed. I make sure all match rounds fit well in the case gauge. It happened today a couple times and once at the worst possible place which cost me huge in points. After that, I switched to a box I labeled "hot" rounds because they were more like Titegroup 3.2-3.3 and didn't see a problem the rest of the match. But, I'm not confident that totally resolved it. In my G34, about everything is replaced....kkm bbl, trigger, Jager striker/spring and stainless guide rod and liter spring, Vanek GM trigger, etc. On my G19, the guide rod is factory, just the Vanek GM trigger kit with the Jager striker/spring. I'm to the point now where I'm thinking of switching to different bullets (round nose instead of flat nose) to see how they run, like Berry's 147g round nose. I've seen the load I use posted several times for Glock reloads and it gets close enough to power factor with a little cushion (~134 PF). Maybe it is just a matter of putting in a couple more grains of powder to have the gun cycle more consistently. Any thoughts or recommendations? Edited November 7, 2015 by 1eyedfatman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowenbuilt Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 You did not say which recoil spring you were running in both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedfatman Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) You did not say which recoil spring you were running in both. On the G34, it is the Jager steel guide rod with the Jager 13lb ISMI recoil spring (I believe that was the common setup recommended by many). For the G19, is the factory recoil spring. Both are gen 4. I'm reloading on a Dillon 650 with Lee Factory Crimp die...other dies are Dillon. I'll also add another malfunction I saw yesterday was a stove pipe...an ejected casing caught on the partially closed slide. That was after a rapid fire 11 round dump on 2 targets to reload on the move only to find I had to clear a malfunction with the next mag in hand. Occasionally, I'll also get a situation where it appears everything is good (mag in, slide closed), but no bang and I have to re-rack...don't have a clue what's going on there. I picked up a round from one of those situations and saw no lite primer strike (primer was clean). Those may occur after a slide lock reload...not sure, I'm moving about as fast as the masters these days (currently expert) and unless I just stop myself and the match, its like trying to figure out what happened 50 frames back in a movie. One of the reasons I'm shooting Glock is to avoid these problems...but I'm starting to feel like I'm running a poorly tuned open pistol! But its got to be the reloads since it happens in both my G34 and G19. I'm considering replacing all my magazine springs with +power springs and switching to round nose bullets. I'd rather not power up my rounds if I don't have to. Edited November 7, 2015 by 1eyedfatman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) You have changed way too many components to know whats going on now. First check your reloads in the aftermarket and OEM barrels to see if they pass the plunk test. That will eliminate the reloads. Then put everything back to 100% stock. I bet it will function 100% then. I see this all the time in competition. Change everything out and it quits running or runs with problems. Course it only happens during a match.... Now change ONLY ONE thing at a time. Your load seems right to me for a 147. Truncated cones feed the best and can be loaded longer than round noses. I though you couldn't replace the trigger for a Production gun. Externally Visible Parts (OEM only)“Any other components which are externally visible may ONLY be replaced with OEM parts, which are offered on the specific model of gun, or another approved gun from the same manufacturer.” (Appendix D4, Rule 21.6)Spring-Loaded BearingSlide Cover PlateMagazine CatchSlide LockSlide Stop LeverTriggerFrame pins Edited November 7, 2015 by 9x45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Could be the mag or the ammo, also. One thing at a time, as 9x45 said. Go back to the original and factory ammo, and change ONLY ONE thing at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedfatman Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 I though you couldn't replace the trigger for a Production gun. Vanek triggers use Glock factory triggers and polishes/tunes all the internal mechanisms to be liter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowenbuilt Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 From what you describe it could be as simple as your thumb rubbing the slide when you get excited and try to drive the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedfatman Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 Truncated cones feed the best and can be loaded longer than round noses. Why would a truncated cone bullet feed best? I've seen posts from others that said their feeding problems went away after going to round nose bullets...not sure what they were using before though...I think flat (truncated?) or HP. I would have thought the round nose would have obviously allowed the round to slide up the feed ramp into the chamber better just by its curved contour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvability Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Clean your mags? Mag spring? Change to a Gen 4 ejector? These are things I would try at this point. I use a bit more powder more like 3.2g TG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwhpfan Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 You should run your loads over a chrono to see where you are actually at. When you say the "hotter" ammo ran find; your 3.0 TG may be going too slow. Just because others get 900 fps doesn't mean your not getting 825. You just don't know. Like said above, maybe your impeeding the slide with your thumb. I'd start with a chrono first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techj Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Since you're using mixed already fired brass, do you case gauge each round to make sure that the rims aren't too damaged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedfatman Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 I've had this titegroup 3.0 load chrono'd from 906-928 average with PF at 133.20-136.44. TG 3.2 was from 952-955 or 139.91-140.41 PF. This was with the Glock 34. With the Glock 19, the TG 3.0 averaged 891-892 and 131.03-131.05 PF. The G34 has the KKM barrel, the G19 has the stock barrel. Both are gen4. But, malfunctions have occurred in both...with leans me towards ammo. I have a good 20 round case gauge and for match rounds, I make sure each round sits completely in the gauge. If it doesn't, it goes into the range bin. Honestly, I don't think I have the time or patience to make one change at a time and run rapid fire drills with 150 rounds each time to look for malfunctions, although, I know that is the best approach. I'd rather make a big change or several changes (shotgun approach) and see if that resolves it. Like changing my bullet or adding more powder to try to power through it. I'd also be open to replacing just about all the springs I have (mags, recoil, striker, extractor) if I thought that might do it...but since its 2 pistols having this issue, I'm not so sure about that one. Thumb riding the slide every now and then. I guess thats possible. The number of times one has to regrip during a stage could be often between moving and reloading and grip pressure could vary even with a lot of training. I can try to think about that...maybe even a little pressure on the slide with a lite load is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Try a lighter recoil spring. I run a similar load in my G34 & G19 with an 11# ISMI Spring. Totally reliable. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 You're likely loading way too long, especially with a non round nose bullet profile..... My OAL for a glock 9 is 1.100 -- and that's irrespective of projectile weight. That ammo length has always been reliable in 115, 124/5 or 147 grain for me, irrespective of bullet profile.... I used to load longer, until Todd Jarrett diagnosed that as a contributor to my occasional feeding problems during a class. Reworked my loads to be shorter, I've been trouble free for about a decade now..... Make sure if you change OAL to rework your loads, to ensure that they're still safe -- shortening OAL without addressing charge weight will increase pressure..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedfatman Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 You're likely loading way too long, especially with a non round nose bullet profile..... My OAL for a glock 9 is 1.100 -- and that's irrespective of projectile weight. That ammo length has always been reliable in 115, 124/5 or 147 grain for me, irrespective of bullet profile.... I used to load longer, until Todd Jarrett diagnosed that as a contributor to my occasional feeding problems during a class. Reworked my loads to be shorter, I've been trouble free for about a decade now..... Make sure if you change OAL to rework your loads, to ensure that they're still safe -- shortening OAL without addressing charge weight will increase pressure..... I've been told by someone else to load these bullets long for a Glock 34/17...1.155...I backed it off to 1.145 so as not to have them too tight in the magazines. I've also read where accuracy is better loading long for a Glock. The maker of my bullets recommends 1.10...but that his the recommendation so it feeds well in any pistol, not Glock specific and I know someone that follows that guideline for a G34. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowenbuilt Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Nick is telling you the truth. Anything longer than 1.135 and you are asking for trouble. I have found that the shorter OAL's produce the best accuracy and the longer produce less pressure and a tendancy to hang in the mags and cause feeding issues. Longer in Glocks does not necassarily mean better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 You're likely loading way too long, especially with a non round nose bullet profile..... My OAL for a glock 9 is 1.100 -- and that's irrespective of projectile weight. That ammo length has always been reliable in 115, 124/5 or 147 grain for me, irrespective of bullet profile.... I used to load longer, until Todd Jarrett diagnosed that as a contributor to my occasional feeding problems during a class. Reworked my loads to be shorter, I've been trouble free for about a decade now..... Make sure if you change OAL to rework your loads, to ensure that they're still safe -- shortening OAL without addressing charge weight will increase pressure..... I've been told by someone else to load these bullets long for a Glock 34/17...1.155...I backed it off to 1.145 so as not to have them too tight in the magazines. I've also read where accuracy is better loading long for a Glock. The maker of my bullets recommends 1.10...but that his the recommendation so it feeds well in any pistol, not Glock specific and I know someone that follows that guideline for a G34. Todd diagnosed the issue by looking at both of Glock 34s at the time -- specifically from jacket material building up on the ramp and barrel hood. Once i started loading shorter, the next 100,000 rounds fed without issues, and the buildup didn't reoccur..... one of the issues with a flat point is that you need to remember to think about how much longer it would be, if it were roundness. Your bullet is essentially a round nose shape with the tip cut off. so you're round loaded at 1.145 hits the ramp and hood like a round nose loaded to 1.155-1.165..... Round nose bullets tend to feed the best -- truncated cones among the worst..... Want a reliably feeding truncated cone -- go short..... Want to make sure that even marginal rounds feed reliably when the tolerances stack up? Dirty gun, cold day, previous round is on the lower end of the velocity standard deviation, grip isn't the most solid? Load shorter..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhr1986 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Mike, a few months ago I played around with this load at 1.145 because testing showed it to be as accurate as my 1.115 load. When I went to matches, I had a number of malfunctions (6-10 in that batch of 400 rounds) and suspected it was the longer oal since that was the only thing I changed. I have since gone back to my 1.115 standard and no more issues. Of course now I'm testing some 124s because they group a little better out of my factory barrel. I don't like the recoil impulse as well as the 147s but like the groups I get. Can't leave well enough alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedfatman Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Mike, a few months ago I played around with this load at 1.145 because testing showed it to be as accurate as my 1.115 load. When I went to matches, I had a number of malfunctions (6-10 in that batch of 400 rounds) and suspected it was the longer oal since that was the only thing I changed. I have since gone back to my 1.115 standard and no more issues. Of course now I'm testing some 124s because they group a little better out of my factory barrel. I don't like the recoil impulse as well as the 147s but like the groups I get. Can't leave well enough alone. Thanks James, Nik and others. I loaded 85 rounds of Cimarron 147g truncated cones at 1.135 OAL and TG 3.1 and shot them at a match last night from my G34 and had no malfunctions! I also talked to Mark who manufactures the bullets and he suggested going shorter too and had recommended this initial adjustment. He and someone else likes to run 1.120 from his bullets. I may take it down to 1.130, 1.125 or 1.120 and try to settle there for a while. I'm also ordering some of his 135g round nose which I'll load to 1.120 which I'll try in my CZ but I'll also give them a try in my Glocks. Hoping to have a final load by the end of the year to stick with and be malfunction free. I've also ordered some more 13# ISMI recoil springs from Jager and plan on doing an annual replacement of my recoil and magazine springs. For Glocks, if you guys know of anything else or other springs I should replace yearly, let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Shooting a 34, with 132-135 pf ammo, and never cleaning the gun, I'd typically replace recoil springs every 5-6K rounds...... Shooting production, ten rounds mags work -- and bonus -- never need new springs..... Mag bodies typically wear out before spring replacement is necessary.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parashooter38 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I have had jam problems after reloads. and found out that most times it was me. I tend to loosen my grip during the reoad and then not grip it tight enought and get a stove pipe. But im working on it and getrting better at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 My standard load is a 125 TC Bayou on top of 4.0 grains of TiteGroup at 1.100' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safeactionjackson Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) You're likely loading way too long, especially with a non round nose bullet profile..... My OAL for a glock 9 is 1.100 -- and that's irrespective of projectile weight. That ammo length has always been reliable in 115, 124/5 or 147 grain for me, irrespective of bullet profile.... I used to load longer, until Todd Jarrett diagnosed that as a contributor to my occasional feeding problems during a class. Reworked my loads to be shorter, I've been trouble free for about a decade now..... Make sure if you change OAL to rework your loads, to ensure that they're still safe -- shortening OAL without addressing charge weight will increase pressure..... Excellent info, although my G34gen4 is mostly stock I've been having similar issue with MG 147gr CMJ at 1.140. I'll shorten my OAL and re-chrono. I had just recently switch to this bullet, all rounds chrono'd without issues (meaning cycled the weapon). After making a few hundred I experienced the problem, maybe once every 50-75 rounds. You're likely loading way too long, especially with a non round nose bullet profile..... My OAL for a glock 9 is 1.100 -- and that's irrespective of projectile weight. That ammo length has always been reliable in 115, 124/5 or 147 grain for me, irrespective of bullet profile.... I used to load longer, until Todd Jarrett diagnosed that as a contributor to my occasional feeding problems during a class. Reworked my loads to be shorter, I've been trouble free for about a decade now..... Make sure if you change OAL to rework your loads, to ensure that they're still safe -- shortening OAL without addressing charge weight will increase pressure..... I've been told by someone else to load these bullets long for a Glock 34/17...1.155...I backed it off to 1.145 so as not to have them too tight in the magazines. I've also read where accuracy is better loading long for a Glock. The maker of my bullets recommends 1.10...but that his the recommendation so it feeds well in any pistol, not Glock specific and I know someone that follows that guideline for a G34. Todd diagnosed the issue by looking at both of Glock 34s at the time -- specifically from jacket material building up on the ramp and barrel hood. Once i started loading shorter, the next 100,000 rounds fed without issues, and the buildup didn't reoccur..... one of the issues with a flat point is that you need to remember to think about how much longer it would be, if it were roundness. Your bullet is essentially a round nose shape with the tip cut off. so you're round loaded at 1.145 hits the ramp and hood like a round nose loaded to 1.155-1.165..... Round nose bullets tend to feed the best -- truncated cones among the worst..... Want a reliably feeding truncated cone -- go short..... Want to make sure that even marginal rounds feed reliably when the tolerances stack up? Dirty gun, cold day, previous round is on the lower end of the velocity standard deviation, grip isn't the most solid? Load shorter..... Thanks for the detailed explanation, makes a lot of sense. ~g Edited November 20, 2015 by safeactionjackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Realistically one failure every 50-75 rounds could translate to 2-4 failures per club match...... I'm lazy -- I certainly don't want to practice clearing malfunctions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safeactionjackson Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Realistically one failure every 50-75 rounds could translate to 2-4 failures per club match...... I'm lazy -- I certainly don't want to practice clearing malfunctions.... Absolutely, of course when chrono'ing the loads I worked up in small batches I didn't have any issues. I run a batch of 800, and start shooting 200-300 per range session.... low and behold feed issues Glad I've got a Redding seating die, the adjustment should take a couple of seconds, I'll run another 400 and see if the issue has been solved. Today was .454 Casull reloading day, so I never got around to tweaking my 9mm load ~g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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