What qualifies to be called a World Championship match ?

[gunfighteruk]

With the very limited number of non American's taking part certain matches just interested as to what qualifies as a World Championship match ??

Or is it like the World series of Baseball with only American's taking part

[PatriotMRD]

Or is it like the World series of Baseball with only American's taking part

There are Canadians too.

[Stlhead]

There sure does seem to be a lot of "Championship" matches, world, national, and just plain championship.

I think it would be cool to try something like boxing (or wrestling) and whatever sanctioning body has a major match and the winner gets a belt! The next time the guy goes to ANY match and gets beat he has to give up all of his belts to the guy (or gal) that beats him. Then whatever match the person holding the "Title" is at is by definition a championship match. Think of the savings on trophies and such. There could be a USPSA multigun belt for Open, Scope Tac, Limited, H.O, and H.M., and similar for IMMG, 3GN, and any other group that cared to throw a match and make a few belts. Every time the champ chose to compete the title(s) would be on the line. Then every match could honestly be a championship match.

[ericm]

Before we all get too big fer our britches, bitches.....

Shooting sports probably rank lower than curling and mincing (as sports)....perhaps we should ask where the World Mincing Championships are held??? (you know, for the pies.....doesn't Britannia like mince pies???.....)

It can all be found in OSQ Magazine, well below dodgeball...

ericm

[Stlhead]

Our sport sure as hell is obscure, but that does not mean that we don't deserve to have belts! Wide ones with big golden buckles.

[Dan Sierpina]

Last year, Rocky Mountain 3 Gun, which held the world championship 3 gun match, awarded nice medals for the top finishers in divisions and categories. Not a belt, but kinda nice.

Just so it's known, there were shooters from a lot of countries at that match, besides Canada.

[ziebart]

It's just a name people add because they think it adds prestige to their match.

[Stlhead]

Prestige worldwide can only be attained through the liberal application of two things. Boats and Hoes. Everything else is just an illusion.

[El Guapo]

The Tennessee 3 gun series awarded a championship belt at the end of the season to the shootoff champ.

[RiggerJJ]

It's just a name people add because they think it adds prestige to their match.

Uhhh, no it wasn't.

We planned it for more than 2 years, and 12 different countries were represented. The Russians came in full force, as did Canada.

The match ran for 5 days with 15 stages, with shootoffs on the 6th day for teams, juniors, and ladies.

Had an awsome opening ceremony, and the closing and prize table was epic.

RM3G 2014 was a true world 3 gun match.

jj

[ziebart]

jj,

I was not trying to say anything negative about your match, and I know you put a lot of effort into it. I was making a generalization about all matches that add "world" or "championship" ect to their name. It isn't like we had an IPSC world match here. To me to truly have a world match it needs to be sanctioned by an international body such as the Olympics.

Stlhead,

I'm glad someone got the prestige reference.

[Stlhead]

I consider The powers that put on the RM3G a respected and legitimate international governing or sanctioning body for our sport. JJ aproaches his match duties with a sacred reverence and a steady hand. RM3G is also blessed with what certainly is the finest venue in the country (that I know of) and certainly a top facility in the world. While not the only legitimate governing body, certainly one of if not the finest. As far as I am concerned they put on the most legitimate world championship match ever held in our sport. If there where similar venues around the world, with like minded individuals possesing adequate resources to facilitate a RM3G type match to be held at other locations it would be fantastic to turn it into a series. So far I do not believe any group has come out with the desire to make such happen who possessed the resources and determination required to pull it off. Are there great matches held at other places, by other groups, and in other countries? There certainly are, and the "best" match will always be up for debate, and personal tastes will always vary, but for my money RM3G is the closest thing we have to a championship in our sport be it world national or otherwise.

[gunfighteruk]

Guy's some great posts on what started out as a light hearted thread.

Iv been bringing groups of Brits over to train up in Multigun as the UK like many other Euro Countries has very restricted firearms laws , for the past few years.

A number have now booked into the Trijicon match at Rockcastle next week & then on to Gary Welborn's Owensboro multigun match.

Think only Poland is running 3 Gun Nation events.

[ziebart]

Good points Stlhead.

[thermobollocks]

The match fee.

[Benelli Chick]

I consider The powers that put on the RM3G a respected and legitimate international governing or sanctioning body for our sport. JJ aproaches his match duties with a sacred reverence and a steady hand. RM3G is also blessed with what certainly is the finest venue in the country (that I know of) and certainly a top facility in the world. While not the only legitimate governing body, certainly one of if not the finest. As far as I am concerned they put on the most legitimate world championship match ever held in our sport. If there where similar venues around the world, with like minded individuals possesing adequate resources to facilitate a RM3G type match to be held at other locations it would be fantastic to turn it into a series. So far I do not believe any group has come out with the desire to make such happen who possessed the resources and determination required to pull it off. Are there great matches held at other places, by other groups, and in other countries? There certainly are, and the "best" match will always be up for debate, and personal tastes will always vary, but for my money RM3G is the closest thing we have to a championship in our sport be it world national or otherwise.

Thanks for the kind words...but you don't need to suck up to us to come shoot with us, even though you stood us up last year! We'll let you in...probably! Oh wait, for sure now!

[kellyn]

An impossible question at the end of the day - particularly when you talk rifle and shotgun. I would REALLY like to say IPSC World Shoots but the fact is that Americans "don't do IPSC" and foreign competitors (primarily but not exclusively Europeans) don't do outlaw/3 Gun Nation/etc. etc. So at the IPSC world shoots, competitors who only shoot IPSC have an advantage as that is the format that they constantly shoot. At non-IPSC "World Championships", American have the advantage as that is the format that they constantly shoot.

I love outlaw 3 gun events and I also love the international IPSC events that I've been too. But there are major differences. At every international IPSC event that I've been to, my main concern is NOT the shooting, it's not getting DQ'd. And I'm sure that the awesome foreign shooters who come to the U.S. for non-IPSC events have felt similar differences.

Example #1: In my experience, IPSC shotgun events require a level of precision totally beyond what most Americans are used to. On the other hand, American shotgunners are used to speeds, ammo management (i.e. different types of shotshells on the same stage), and varied target presentations (aerial targets, slugs and knock down steel all on the same stage) that IPSC competitors are not used to.

Example #2: IPSC rifle rifle events require a level of precision beyond what most American shooters are used to ON THE PAPER TARGETS with Americans' SLOPPY 2 hits anywhere scoring. In IPSC, you'd better be shooting As, something your typical American 3 gunner does not even think about. On the other hand, American 3 Gun does not stop at 300 m for the LR targets, nowadays 400-500 is expected. But again, the safety rules are dramatically different. If one is not used to IPSC, it is very easy to DQ.

So until we are all shooting under the same banner, it will be hard to crown a World Champion.

FYI this is not to disparage any of the competitors involved in any of these events. Unlike many Americans, I am WELL AWARE of the awesome shooting skills of many of our foreign competitors. I love being an American but if that doesn't work out, maybe Finland will let me in.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

Or is it like the World series of Baseball with only American's taking part

There are Canadians too.

Not anymore......Go Royals!

[Jesse Tischauser]

An impossible question at the end of the day - particularly when you talk rifle and shotgun. I would REALLY like to say IPSC World Shoots but the fact is that Americans "don't do IPSC" and foreign competitors (primarily but not exclusively Europeans) don't do outlaw/3 Gun Nation/etc. etc. So at the IPSC world shoots, competitors who only shoot IPSC have an advantage as that is the format that they constantly shoot. At non-IPSC "World Championships", American have the advantage as that is the format that they constantly shoot.

I love outlaw 3 gun events and I also love the international IPSC events that I've been too. But there are major differences. At every international IPSC event that I've been to, my main concern is NOT the shooting, it's not getting DQ'd. And I'm sure that the awesome foreign shooters who come to the U.S. for non-IPSC events have felt similar differences.

Example #1: In my experience, IPSC shotgun events require a level of precision totally beyond what most Americans are used to. On the other hand, American shotgunners are used to speeds, ammo management (i.e. different types of shotshells on the same stage), and varied target presentations (aerial targets, slugs and knock down steel all on the same stage) that IPSC competitors are not used to.

Example #2: IPSC rifle rifle events require a level of precision beyond what most American shooters are used to ON THE PAPER TARGETS with Americans' SLOPPY 2 hits anywhere scoring. In IPSC, you'd better be shooting As, something your typical American 3 gunner does not even think about. On the other hand, American 3 Gun does not stop at 300 m for the LR targets, nowadays 400-500 is expected. But again, the safety rules are dramatically different. If one is not used to IPSC, it is very easy to DQ.

So until we are all shooting under the same banner, it will be hard to crown a World Champion.

FYI this is not to disparage any of the competitors involved in any of these events. Unlike many Americans, I am WELL AWARE of the awesome shooting skills of many of our foreign competitors. I love being an American but if that doesn't work out, maybe Finland will let me in.

Well said Kelly

jj,

I was not trying to say anything negative about your match, and I know you put a lot of effort into it. I was making a generalization about all matches that add "world" or "championship" ect to their name. It isn't like we had an IPSC world match here. To me to truly have a world match it needs to be sanctioned by an international body such as the Olympics.

Stlhead,

I'm glad someone got the prestige reference.

This is exactly it. Anybody with a practiscore signup can call their match anything they want. Until 3-gun has a sanctioning body and all the outlaw matches join up with it any world championships will just be another group telling the world their match is bigger then Everyone else's. Edited October 29, 2015 by Jesse Tischauser

[Bryan 45]

This is exactly it. Anybody with a practiscore signup can call their match anything they want. Until 3-gun has a sanctioning body and all the outlaw matches join up with it any world championships will just be another group telling the world their match is bigger then Everyone else's.

As Bill Cosby said, "here, drink this."

No, wait, wrong Bill Cosby quote.

I think I intended to say "the proof is in the pudding."

Call it what they want, if the match is organized poorly, with last minute schedule and rule changes, it's obvious to everyone it's not a World Championship.

If the stages are bland and were conceived the morning of set up over breakfast, it's not a WC.

If the shooters can't tell the difference in stages of the same match from one year to the next, it's not a WC.

All of us that have been doing this for more than 3 or 4 years can tell the difference pretty quickly, and we're certainly more than willing to offer our opinions to anyone new that wants to ask for help.

[Jesse Tischauser]

The big match at Rocky Mountain last year was as close as we've come but it wasn't anywhere near as sought after to qualify for and attend as say IPSC World pistol shoot.

3-gun still doesn't have a match that everyone in the world is dying to attend to prove they are the best in the world or see how they compare to the best in the world.

[Stlhead]

The big match at Rocky Mountain last year was as close as we've come but it wasn't anywhere near as sought after to qualify for and attend as say IPSC World pistol shoot.

3-gun still doesn't have a match that everyone in the world is dying to attend to prove they are the best in the world or see how they compare to the best in the world.

And the World Shoot is nothing like the World Cup. Comparing sports is not helpful. Most people in the world are not even able to play the 3 gun game. If they can't play at home do you think that they are going to be traveling anywhere for a world shoot type 3 gun match no matter where it is put on or how good it is? I wouldn't attend a World Shoot pistol match if there was even a nice regional 3 gun match to attend, pistol is not my sport. But I do think that the best 3 gun shooters in the world did compete at the RM world's.

I feel like you are trying to leverage this conversation into a "We need a governing body" chant. If 3 gun had a chance at becoming mainstream professional sport then possibly that chant could gain traction, but face it, dodge ball is far ahead of 3 gun in the race to become a professional sport. And as a mostly volunteer, hobby sport is best served by a large variety of influences and personalities I think it is better the way it is. There are governing bodies for you to join and advocate if you wish, I believe the merits of those are beyond the scope of this thread.

[Jesse Tischauser]

The big match at Rocky Mountain last year was as close as we've come but it wasn't anywhere near as sought after to qualify for and attend as say IPSC World pistol shoot.

3-gun still doesn't have a match that everyone in the world is dying to attend to prove they are the best in the world or see how they compare to the best in the world.

And the World Shoot is nothing like the World Cup. Comparing sports is not helpful. Most people in the world are not even able to play the 3 gun game. If they can't play at home do you think that they are going to be traveling anywhere for a world shoot type 3 gun match no matter where it is put on or how good it is? I wouldn't attend a World Shoot pistol match if there was even a nice regional 3 gun match to attend, pistol is not my sport. But I do think that the best 3 gun shooters in the world did compete at the RM world's.

I feel like you are trying to leverage this conversation into a "We need a governing body" chant. If 3 gun had a chance at becoming mainstream professional sport then possibly that chant could gain traction, but face it, dodge ball is far ahead of 3 gun in the race to become a professional sport. And as a mostly volunteer, hobby sport is best served by a large variety of influences and personalities I think it is better the way it is. There are governing bodies for you to join and advocate if you wish, I believe the merits of those are beyond the scope of this thread.

Sorry I should have said most of the top shooters in the USA didn't even attend this match.

[Stlhead]

I feel like I am riding Rocinante into this thread. "Uncle"

[kurtm]

to be a real world championship???? Well..... I would have to be there in order for it to be!