Reach for the gun or the magazine first?

[NicVerAZ]

Consider the below:

• Your start position is facing downrange, your hands flat on X's on a fence.
• Your gun is placed on top of one barrel, your first magazine on top of another barrel.
• Each of these barrels is placed at each extremity of the fence, at the same exact distance from the X's on the fence
• You have the possibility, of course, to stand with your body closer to one of the two barrels, while keeping your hands on both X's.
• You have zero tactical advantage in picking a magazine from the top of another barrel than the first magazine mentioned above
• There is exactly the same amount of targets on the left of as on the right of your starting position.

Question: would you pick the magazine first, or the gun first, and why?

[Punished]

My first thought is mag first. However, thinking it through, I'm going for the gun. To me, I can cleanly pick the gun up with 2 free hands first, my strong hand grip will be set and when I grab the mag and load I can set my feet and everything will feel like a natural order.

If I grab the mag first, I feel I can run faster as I don't have a muzzle to worry about when going for the gun 2nd. However, having a mag in my hand and then picking up the gun is not my natural process and I feel this would slow me down.

As a righty shooter, I'd want my gun on the right barrel and mag on the left. This way I shoot the left array first and come back to my right side. I'm also drawing this out in my mind as if this is a 10+ yard distance from barrel to barrel.

[blueeyedme]

If a reload on the move will be needed, I would prefer to move from left to right (as a right hander) to eliminate the possibility of breaking 180 on the reload. If a reload is not a factor, then it does not matter which. I would decide on the walk-through which felt faster/more natural to me.

[Mark R]

Pick up the gun with two hands, then grab the mag with weak hand.

When picking up a gun from a barrel or table, I always use my weak hand to lift the rear of the gun to help get a strong hand grip on better. Then with the gun in hand, picking up a magazine is the easier part...mag laying on it's back, rounds pointing up...allows you to index the mag with you weak pointer finger on the front of the mag for loading.

[kneelingatlas]

Perfect Mark!

[NicVerAZ]

My first thought is mag first. However, thinking it through, I'm going for the gun. To me, I can cleanly pick the gun up with 2 free hands first, my strong hand grip will be set and when I grab the mag and load I can set my feet and everything will feel like a natural order.

So you would turn your back to the first magazine, and grab your gun with two hands, thus forcing yourself to make a 180 degrees turn to grab your first magazine? Don't you think that keeping your body perpendicular to the fence, extending your strong arm to grab the gun, then your left arm to grab the pistol would be faster?

Edited September 14, 2015 by NicVerAZ

[Punished]

My first thought is mag first. However, thinking it through, I'm going for the gun. To me, I can cleanly pick the gun up with 2 free hands first, my strong hand grip will be set and when I grab the mag and load I can set my feet and everything will feel like a natural order.

So you would turn your back to the first magazine, and grab your gun with two hands, thus forcing yourself to make a 180 degrees turn to grab your first magazine? Don't you think that keeping your body perpendicular to the fence, extending your strong arm to grab the gun, then your left arm to grab the pistol would be faster?

I've always trained with the weakhand lifts the back of the gun off the table and strong hand can then have a solid purchase of the grip. As an athletes view, no I was not planning to have my back to the mag. I'm picturing more of a reach for gun while facing down range, plant outside foot and push back off. As if running an agility drill with breaking down at each barrel/cone. So this should be a 90* turn once picking up the gun.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Punished

[Bigbadaboom]

Gun first. Reason: Grip and load

I want my grip on the gun, rather I use two hands or one to pick it up with I want to gain my grip as soon as possible. Also, when I load/reload I look at my magwell not my magazine. I "point" my magazine into the magwell so my load is going to be a lot faster if the gun is in my hand first because my gun is the first thing I look at.

Also, think about this;

Magazine first: move to magazine, pick up magazine, position magazine in hand while moving to gun, pick up gun, turn gun as you bring it up while gaining grip, looking at magwell and load gun.

Gun first: move to gun, pick up gun, turn gun in hand while gaining grip while getting gun up to see magwell while moving to magazine, pick up magazine, look at magwell and load gun.

Between the two scenarios, in which one where you able to accomplish more while moving and in which one did you have to perform more while standing still?

[NicVerAZ]

Here what I believe: if you pick up a magazine, it is to be inserted immediately into the magwell. Why? Because it's something one does all the time and it is done by sheer habit and automatism. Concentrate on grabbing the magazine, think "reload" and let the body do the rest.

Which is why I would go for the gun first.

I do not see the necessity of reaching for it with both hands. The least amount of movement my support hand has to do before reaching for the magazine, the better. By placing my body closer to the gun before the start signal allows me to stare at the gun and, right away, simplify the grab with my strong hand only.

I have to admit that, since I shoot an X-Calibur in production with the large safety levers, my gun is already propped up in a certain way. If I was shooting single stack, the one-hand grab may require some practice.

So my approach is: scoot as close as possible to the gun, grab the gun firmly with my strong hand only, bounce back on my strong side leg, initiate run towards the magazine, grab the magazine, insert it, rack the slide, engage targets according to the best strategy I can think of.

[ChuckS]

Consider the below:

• Your start position is facing downrange, your hands flat on X's on a fence.
• Your gun is placed on top of one barrel, your first magazine on top of another barrel.
• Each of these barrels is placed at each extremity of the fence, at the same exact distance from the X's on the fence
• You have the possibility, of course, to stand with your body closer to one of the two barrels, while keeping your hands on both X's.
• You have zero tactical advantage in picking a magazine from the top of another barrel than the first magazine mentioned above
• There is exactly the same amount of targets on the left of as on the right of your starting position.

Question: would you pick the magazine first, or the gun first, and why?

That stage sounds familiar

[NicVerAZ]

Consider the below:

• Your start position is facing downrange, your hands flat on X's on a fence.
• Your gun is placed on top of one barrel, your first magazine on top of another barrel.
• Each of these barrels is placed at each extremity of the fence, at the same exact distance from the X's on the fence
• You have the possibility, of course, to stand with your body closer to one of the two barrels, while keeping your hands on both X's.
• You have zero tactical advantage in picking a magazine from the top of another barrel than the first magazine mentioned above
• There is exactly the same amount of targets on the left of as on the right of your starting position.

Question: would you pick the magazine first, or the gun first, and why?

That stage sounds familiar

Yes, I always try to find the best tactical approach on how to solve a stage and shoot it the best I can.

[benos]

Here what I believe: if you pick up a magazine, it is to be inserted immediately into the magwell. Why? Because it's something one does all the time and it is done by sheer habit and automatism. Concentrate on grabbing the magazine, think "reload" and let the body do the rest.

Which is why I would go for the gun first.

I do not see the necessity of reaching for it with both hands. The least amount of movement my support hand has to do before reaching for the magazine, the better. By placing my body closer to the gun before the start signal allows me to stare at the gun and, right away, simplify the grab with my strong hand only.

I have to admit that, since I shoot an X-Calibur in production with the large safety levers, my gun is already propped up in a certain way. If I was shooting single stack, the one-hand grab may require some practice.

So my approach is: scoot as close as possible to the gun, grab the gun firmly with my strong hand only, bounce back on my strong side leg, initiate run towards the magazine, grab the magazine, insert it, rack the slide, engage targets according to the best strategy I can think of.

Exactly what you said, for the reasons stated.

[Salsantini]

Go for the pistol first. Use two hands to pick up the pistol and get a proper grip.

[Gunnar]

Scoop and grip the gun and then the mag as well.

[cjdaniel78]

Here what I believe: if you pick up a magazine, it is to be inserted immediately into the magwell. Why? Because it's something one does all the time and it is done by sheer habit and automatism. Concentrate on grabbing the magazine, think "reload" and let the body do the rest.

Which is why I would go for the gun first.

I do not see the necessity of reaching for it with both hands. The least amount of movement my support hand has to do before reaching for the magazine, the better. By placing my body closer to the gun before the start signal allows me to stare at the gun and, right away, simplify the grab with my strong hand only.

I have to admit that, since I shoot an X-Calibur in production with the large safety levers, my gun is already propped up in a certain way. If I was shooting single stack, the one-hand grab may require some practice.

So my approach is: scoot as close as possible to the gun, grab the gun firmly with my strong hand only, bounce back on my strong side leg, initiate run towards the magazine, grab the magazine, insert it, rack the slide, engage targets according to the best strategy I can think of.

To me, this is the minimalist, thus quickest.

Edited September 17, 2015 by cjdaniel78

[Corey]

Set it up and try it a few times each way. Which one gets you shooting faster?

Might depend on stage setup, reloads needed after the fact, etc but I think Id lean to the gun side on my right (assuming I had a choice of barrels for each item). Id grab the gun with just my strong hand (should save me a step as I wouldn't need to get as close as if I were using 2 hands to grab it) then reverse and go get the mag. Load mag and start shooting on the left. Since Im right handed, if I have to reload as I move, its easier for me going left to right.

Im going to set up a stage for our monthly match tonight....might have to borrow this start position . It'll end up being a bigger field course than I'm sure you're creating here but still could be fun.

[V2plus25]

So my approach is: scoot as close as possible to the gun, grab the gun firmly with my strong hand only, bounce back on my strong side leg, initiate run towards the magazine, grab the magazine, insert it, rack the slide, engage targets according to the best strategy I can think of.

The only thing I would do differently would be once the gun is in my strong hand, while running towards the magazine I would rack and lock the slide back. That way once you grab the mag, everything goes by muscle memory (insert mag and drop the slide).