1chota Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I did not start shooting He-Man until Rocky Mountain 3 Gun included it. I know what is considered to be equipment allowed now, but what were the original He-Man equipment requirements? I expect Kurt will handle this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 10 Round .45, .44 revolver allowed. Non Scoped 308 or larger. 12 Gage shotgun.....The original wasn't a pump only, just 12 gage, which was deemed manly enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I will let Kurt handle the equipment, though I understand there was some debate...but you shot the first He-Man...because the He-Man division DID start at RM3G and you've been there every year, so you are one of the original He-Men as well! Thanks Kurt! :-) (In advance...add the fun stuff...) Denise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Did the original Soldier of Fortune match have a separate division as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I don't believe so. From what Kurt told me, they kind of figured it out/invented it. Partly as a kind of "duty" class as Eddie Rhodes was a Pueblo police officer! It's my understanding there was less gaming for SOF, and people just shot the guns they had! But, well, I'd like to say I'm too young, but I just wasn't shooting then! First year of JP RM3G was the first year I shot 3-Gun...2003! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 S.O.F. didn't have separate divisions at all! it was all "tactical" if you will. when they started to allow scopes they had a unique way of handling it. On any stage that there was a rifle used, there was a 100% for the fastest scope shooter and a 100% for the fastest iron sight shooter. It was all considered one division and all the scores were mixed together at the end. I really like this and feel that all these different divisions have just arbitrarily watered down the whole sport. The whole concept of different divisions came from USPSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Quote from Eddie Rhodes "In 2003 a couple of major matches instituted a class called "He-Man" wherein competitors ran .308 rifles and .45 calibre pistols sans optics. The class was popular at those venues and has prompted matches in 2004 to begin their own "He-Man" class. I think "He-Man" as instituted has gone off track! I want the competitors, match directors and sponsors who participate in this forum to reconsider what "He-Man" should be. "He-Man" is not about using specialized firearms and ammunition developed for competition, even though some of those specialized competitive items are very suited to particular situational needs. "He-Man" is not about a call to arms for "Tactical Teds" or patrol car "operators" from where they can pontificate about their expected daring-do. "He-Man" is all about shooting large, standard calibre, proven, powerful firearms that have a probable, potentially wide use in law enforcement, the military and civilian self-defense. "Proven, probable, potentially wide use" refers to firearms the aforementioned users will likely have available in the event of a sudden need, i.e. pistols carried concealed or in a duty rig; rifles and shotguns likely to be available for premise defense, building entry or carried in a vehicle for rapid deployment.A "He-Man Rifle" is a semi-auto in at least .308 Winchester, with no more than a 20 round box magazine, with iron sights or one optic, no bipod, fitted with a sling or carrying strap, a compensator or flashhider configured in proportion to the profile of the barrel, a stock that allows for ambidextrous use, and firing full powered ammunition. A "He-Man Pistol" is at least a .45acp with a barrel no longer than 5.5", limited to a 10 round capacity, no optics, no compensators, and firing full powered ammunition. A "He-Man Shotgun" is a 12 gauge, pump or semi-auto, with a barrel/magazine tube no longer than 22", fitted with a carrying strap, no optics, no bipods, no loading tubes, no compensators or porting, and firing buckshot and slugs only.A large 3-gun match with a properly configured "He-Man" class in addition to Open and Tactical class will offer about all there is to dedicated 3-gunners. The importance, however, of a properly configured "He-Man" is that it will allow those shooters with a more tactical or professional bent not only a forum in which to compete, but a forum to develop some equipment and techniques readily transferable to wide practical applications. Using the term "wide practical applications" is in no way a slight to anyone or any piece of equipment. It does not mean an Open class competitor wielding a scoped, high capacity, .38 SuperComp out of a skeletonized holster does not have the means or the sand to defend himself or others. It does mean that the chances of that equipment seeing widespread adoption by those employed to enforce laws or defend the country will not happen in the next couple of years. The term "wide practical applications" does not mean a .308 rifle should be limited to iron sights or a 12 gauge shotgun should be limited to a pump action allowed to shoot 2 3/4 dram #8 birdshot. Scopes on rifles are common sense. Semi-auto shotguns are proven and widely accepted, and, shotguns for this purpose only make sense firing buckshot and slugs. "He-Man" should be all about learning to use practical, widely available, and powerful firearms in the best school of all, modern 3-gun competition. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 The best answer would actually come from guys like Brian Enos, Robbie Leatham, Ken Hackathorn, and Bill Wilson, who shot the 1980 SOF match. Unfortunately, some of the other competitors of the first "3Gun" match are no longer walking on the earth. However, the gun list of the first SOF match included single stack .45s, H&K91s or M1A (.308s), and Remington 1100s (with buckshot and slugs...no birdshot). It was not until well over 20 years later that there was a movement to return to the original guns of 3Gun. I'd argue that "He-Man" was the original division of 3Gun and that it only became so labeled well after significant changes had occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Well not really. First off Buckshot and Slugs were what was required for shotgun ammunition....FOR EVERYONE. There were plenty of AR-15s and Mini-14s in use. The 1100 was about the only game in town, and there were quite a few Browning Hi-Powers used as well. It was much more of a bring what you got match, with the stipulation that it had to be real "tactical" gear. The reason you saw more 308s back then is two fold, First the scoring system was 10, 8, 6 for major caliber hits, and 10, 6, 4 for minor. Second of all the AR-15 hadn't come into it "majority" with accuracy, customized parts and good sights. The reason you saw lots of 45,s from "those guys" is that is what their match pistols were in those days, You also saw lots of 38 supers and as the match progressed they went with the latest and greatest, which spawned its own rule changes. No, I would argue that He-Man was NOT the original division of 3-gun but was the RESULT of the newer hi cap pistols the customization of the AR platform, and the folks who shot the match as a game, not as a "tactical match". He man was formed as a division where guys with "real street gear" could play ESPECIALY with regard to two hits anywhere which made driving a 308 hard at best when no larger point value was available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) I believe that the first time HE MAN ran a pump gun in the division was at the 1st DPMS Tri-Gun Challenge. At the time, I was the RM.....asked LOTS of questions to Furby, Miller and Rhodes. I think that it was Eddie (go figure) talked me into making the pump gun mandatory. Made sense to me!! Also....the same year, RM3G was going to pump only as well for HE MAN. Edited August 27, 2015 by TRUBL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigS. Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Tim - what year was the first Tri -gun challenge? 2004? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Actually Furby was the first to run it at all, and after that, I polled all the shooters and they said they wanted it to be a pump division. so we got together with Furby and agreed to the change. Eddie never wanted it to be a "Pump only Division". His point was it was a 12 gage, that was manly enough. Tim you WERE the first match to run it as a pump only division! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1chota Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 is the next thing a bayonet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I think it was 2001 or 2002 when several of us (Eddie Rhodes, Kurt Miller, Eric Miller, Jimmy Holdsworth, Blaine West and myself) were talking after a match in Pueblo, Colorado. Kinda of a "SOF was fun, low recoil slugs are for pussies, the short AR-15 sight radius sucks, ect" type of conversation. From that brainstorming session lots of ideas were floated out there. After that, it gained traction. I thought Blaine won the North Carolina Tactical shooting He-Man before SMM3G. Cant remember now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Blane did indeed win He man at Kyle Lamb's match, but I do believe the N.C.T. match was after SMM3G, but it sure could be reverse, I don't really remember which was first, but the more I think about it, N.C.T. may have been first. I do know the DPMS was the first time it was all pump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Actually Furby was the first to run it at all, and after that, I polled all the shooters and they said they wanted it to be a pump division. so we got together with Furby and agreed to the change. Eddie never wanted it to be a "Pump only Division". His point was it was a 12 gage, that was manly enough. Tim you WERE the first match to run it as a pump only division! Well....slap me silly......ya see, Eddie only ran his trusty 870 pump (and ran it well). Soooooo it was all a simple misunderstanding. I blame you. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Blaine won the 1st HeMan ever which was at Kyle's N.C.T. match. I won the 2nd HeMan which was at RM3G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Tim - what year was the first Tri -gun challenge? 2004? Correct....2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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