Dillon chamber check too large?

[Kamotion]

After using my Dillon chamber check for years.....40 cal....I have discovered that it is about .005 larger than the chamber of my 40 cal Glock. Without going into all the numbers, while changing some dies around I hit the sweet spot where the finished cartridges passed the chamber check gage with ease but would not fully seat in the barrel. So every last one was chamber checked in the gage and then,checked in the barrel during a USPSA match. ? so I had about 40% that would not let the slide fully seat.

I get it now and am in the process of measuring all my case gages to see if they meet saami specs or are slightly off one way or another. It will be interesting to see what the variations are between each 40 cal barrel and each 9mm barrel and each 45 barrel. When I get done I will post a list of the chamber sizes and the case gage sizes. I have not figured out how to measure them yet. When using the inside jaws of the calipers they do not reach all the way down to where the crimp would be.

Thanks. Randall

[trouble]

My .40 Dillon case gauge is very generous. I quit using it after I got one fron EGW.

[Poppa Bear]

I use a L.E. Wilson. It is cut to SAMMI max cartridge of .424"

Edited August 19, 2015 by Poppa Bear

[ttolliver]

For those of us with custom barrels intentionally very tight a gauge cut to SAMMI max probably doesn't help. I've seen recommendations to get a gunsmith to cut one to the size of a specific chamber, but that seems excessive. I'd be more interested in one cut to SAMMI minimums. Anyone do that?

[gng4life]

Shockbottle makes two gauges, one for tight chambers and a standard size that is more inline with SAAMI specs. Most others only offer one gauge but I found that EGW is usually the tightest with the Dillon being the most relaxed.

Sent from the range

[Steve RA]

You could get the chamber reamed to match the case gauge.

[Poppa Bear]

For those of us with custom barrels intentionally very tight a gauge cut to SAMMI max probably doesn't help. I've seen recommendations to get a gunsmith to cut one to the size of a specific chamber, but that seems excessive. I'd be more interested in one cut to SAMMI minimums. Anyone do that?

A Guage built for max cartridge is tighter than any chamber Guage. I do not know of any .40 S&W barrel who's chamber is cut to less than .426.

[cnote]

I've never heard of a stock glock barrel choking on anything.

They are actually the cause of more brass issues than anything else

[gng4life]

To the OP, have you thought about casting your chamber to get the exact measurements? Also, what is your OAL? Also, do you use an FCD die?

Sent from the range

[mach1soldier]

I have a minimum spec chamber on my new 1911. Accuracy was amazing....

Then I had failure to chamber or failure to extract over and over again. Everything passed the Dillon die. 50% failed the barrel drop test.

I roll size, and then pass the loaded ammo through a Lee FCD once loaded.

I wanted to buy a Hundo gauge but spending 100 dollars to find out it is not close to minimum, makes it kind of pointless.

I would open the chamber some but the newfound accuracy is still a novelty to me...Even though not needed for USPSA 99% of the time.

[DougM]

I had the same issue with my Dillon gauge as Trouble did. I also got an EGW gauge (the 7 hole version) and that seems to work fine. I talked with Dillon about my problem and they exchanged my Dillon gauge for the EGW with me only paying the difference. Kudos again for the Dillon customer service.

[lcs]

After using my Dillon chamber check for years.....40 cal....I have discovered that it is about .005 larger than the chamber of my 40 cal Glock. Without going into all the numbers, while changing some dies around I hit the sweet spot where the finished cartridges passed the chamber check gage with ease but would not fully seat in the barrel. So every last one was chamber checked in the gage and then,checked in the barrel during a USPSA match. so I had about 40% that would not let the slide fully seat.

I get it now and am in the process of measuring all my case gages to see if they meet saami specs or are slightly off one way or another. It will be interesting to see what the variations are between each 40 cal barrel and each 9mm barrel and each 45 barrel. When I get done I will post a list of the chamber sizes and the case gage sizes. I have not figured out how to measure them yet. When using the inside jaws of the calipers they do not reach all the way down to where the crimp would be.

Thanks. Randall

While all the suggestions below will work and cost $$$. The probable cause is the ogive on the bullet. The OAL will pass the case gauge, but the bullet hangs in the chamber. Shorten the bullet a touch until all chamber. I use a case gauge for testing casing size and crimp, but always use the barrel for OAL (and the mags play into that also.)

[DougM]

Hey, Kamotion:

Did you ever get any measurements made of the various gauges? I'd be interested in your results if you ever get to the project.

[BARRYJ]

After using my Dillon chamber check for years.....40 cal....I have discovered that it is about .005 larger than the chamber of my 40 cal Glock. Without going into all the numbers, while changing some dies around I hit the sweet spot where the finished cartridges passed the chamber check gage with ease but would not fully seat in the barrel. So every last one was chamber checked in the gage and then,checked in the barrel during a USPSA match. so I had about 40% that would not let the slide fully seat.

I get it now and am in the process of measuring all my case gages to see if they meet saami specs or are slightly off one way or another. It will be interesting to see what the variations are between each 40 cal barrel and each 9mm barrel and each 45 barrel. When I get done I will post a list of the chamber sizes and the case gage sizes. I have not figured out how to measure them yet. When using the inside jaws of the calipers they do not reach all the way down to where the crimp would be.

Thanks. Randall

While all the suggestions below will work and cost $$$. The probable cause is the ogive on the bullet. The OAL will pass the case gauge, but the bullet hangs in the chamber. Shorten the bullet a touch until all chamber. I use a case gauge for testing casing size and crimp, but always use the barrel for OAL (and the mags play into that also.)

I had that problem. I was shooting a 180 round nose lead bullet. I checked some cases after sizing and they fit the case gauge. After loading, they were tighter. Switched to a truncated cone bullet and it fixed my problem.

[Ming the Merciless]

The easiest method of checking your case gauge is to check fired cases (from your gun) in the case gauge. If they fit the gauge, the gauge is larger than your chamber. If they don't fit, the case gauge is smaller than your chamber. The EGW case gauges are smaller than the Dillon gauges. If you're having a new gun built, have the 'smith cut a case gauge with the same chamber ream he uses on your barrel.

[Quack]

Front row is range pick-up brass, back row is brass fired from my gun w/ Kart barrel.

[Bob DuBois]

Use a Wilson Chamber Gauge for this issue. 40 S#W is a place where Lee's U die shines. It will size the brass tighter and closer to the

extractor groove than other brands. Have used it in both my 550 and 650 in station one with great results.

Also have some older Midway chamber gauges that work well.

Same issue in 223 Remington ammo that fits in a Dillon gauge may not run in a tight chambered rifle.

When loading with the U die, set so a thin strip of paper just pulls out with pressure on the operating handle, a go no go gauge.

The carbide ring is close to the case mouth and if set to tight will break the carbide ring. Always lube cases.

[RPatton]

Save your money, time, and lot of effort by just using the barrel to check your ammo.

I don't know why they call it a "chamber" gauge since it is rarely a duplicate of the chamber and the error of assuming that it is will leave you standing there clearing a "fat bullet" jam while the meter is running.

If the round won't go "plunk" in the barrel then change something. That something is usually the OAL , the case mouth is still too large, or your sizing die is not sizing the case completely . Once you pass the plunk test then load your ammo.

If you change anything then repeat the plunk test.

The ritual I have is to use the barrel to check all pistol ammo even if the die setup has not changed. Sometimes find at least one show stopper in the lot.

Bullets that go plunk in one barrel may not go plunk in another.

[Steve RA]

+1

Only plunk in the barrel you are going to shoot the ammunition thru !

[Ming the Merciless]

Save your money, time, and lot of effort by just using the barrel to check your ammo.

I don't know why they call it a "chamber" gauge since it is rarely a duplicate of the chamber and the error of assuming that it is will leave you standing there clearing a "fat bullet" jam while the meter is running.

If the round won't go "plunk" in the barrel then change something. That something is usually the OAL , the case mouth is still too large, or your sizing die is not sizing the case completely . Once you pass the plunk test then load your ammo.

If you change anything then repeat the plunk test.

The ritual I have is to use the barrel to check all pistol ammo even if the die setup has not changed. Sometimes find at least one show stopper in the lot.

Bullets that go plunk in one barrel may not go plunk in another.

The problem with using the barrel for a case gauge is the barrel does NOT completely encircle the case all the way to the edge of the rim the same way a case gauge does. A damaged rim or bulged case MAY just happen to line up with some portion of the barrel other than under the barrel hood and appear to be OK, but when it counts, Mr. Murphy will put that bulge directly under the barrel hood and lock up the gun.

[Kamotion]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you but here's what I found out .I ordered the LE Wilson case gauge and I ordered the double alpha block that holds 20 bullet at a time everything is in 40 caliber. The Le Wilson of the three chambered checkers is by far the tightest and when I tried different bullets from different manufacturers the only thing I could get to go into the le Wilson was a brand new bullet . anything that I had reloaded or picked up at the range if it was just off the tiniest bit it would not fit in the LE Wilson so the best I can tell is the only Wilson Chamber check is like absolutely tight to saami specs. So all my brass is a total mixed bag of brands and they probably all got shot out of multiple kinds of guns. I'm using a Redding sizing die and it seems like it does a really good job. Everything fits just right and it goes into the double alpha chamber check and when it fits the double alpha chamber check then it fits the barrel in my Glock and it fits the barrel in my Smith and Wesson without a problem. I do not have one of those U dies but I suspect if I did have a U dye it would make the casings even closer to being new and probably at that point it would fit into the LE Wilson but what I have found out is the Dillon 40 caliber chamber check is unbelievably sloppy and there is a sweet spot where it was still fit in the Dillon but not in the Glock barrel. I'm going to take some measurements and I'll post the specs over the weekend. Just to finalize this LE Wilson is the tightest and probably the most exact the double alphas are just slightly larger and the Dillon is huge I will not be using the Dillon anymore.

[DougM]

Talk to Dillon about your problem. They were very helpful when I called about the same issue and exchanged the Dillon for an EGW and only charged me the difference in retail costs. And I had bought my Dillon gauge from a local gun shop - not directly from Dillon - and they still stood behind it. Great folks to work with and definitely worth the effort to give them a shout. After all, if nobody complains, they may just assume the gauge works for everyone and not pursue any corrections.

[cnote]

EGW is the tightest in my experience, the Hundo match grade is also tight and was not recommended to unless you know you chamber would require nothing short of Sammi specs

[IATURNKEY]

EGW is tight, factory Federal ammo won't even seat fully in my gauge.

[Kamotion]

The following is from RPatton above:

"I don't know why they call it a "chamber" gauge since it is rarely a duplicate of the chamber and the error of assuming that it is will leave you standing there clearing a "fat bullet" jam while the meter is running."

This is probably the truest statement of the entire conversation.

So here is what I found. I have 5 different 40 cal pistols....Glock and S&W...and I have a Dillon 40SW chamber check and DoubleAlpha chamber check and LE Wilson chamber check. I know this would have been a better test if I had a couple of more brands of case gages and more brands of barrels...but this is what I have.

I got caught in a competition with "fat bullets" because; 1) I did not use my calipers often enough 2) I trusted the dillon case gage.

It had never come up in thousands of rounds that I hit that sweet spot where it fit the dillon case gage and not the barrel. After doing a lot of measuring and making a bunch of fat bullets of various sizes it was actually easy to duplicate my lack of attention to size. I found that if your ammo is perfect or close to perfect it will fit in the LE Wilson. Of the case gages I have the LE Wilson is by far the closest to SAAMI Spec. This is good and bad, kind of. If your ammo fits the LE Wilson, it will fit in any of the barrels. The bad part is, most reloaded ammo is off a little. A little bulgy, a little croocked, a little not square....we are not talking a lot but in measurements of a thousandth or half a thousdandths of and inch.

So if you can reload to make it fit the LE Wilson......you are back to SAAMI specs....yeah!!!! Maybe if you use one of those push through dies, you might make it back to SAMMI.

I do not use the pass through die because I am using used brass and half or more of what I shoot I never get back during an idpa or uspsa match. I just don't want to spend all the extra time when I will never see it again. So I found that the doublealpha case gage which holds 20 rounds is just slightly sloppier than the LE Wilson.....but a lot tighter than the Dillon. Being a little sloppier it was just enough to allow for a reloaded cartridge that was "A little bulgy, a little croocked, a little not square".....not a lot but in the "thousandth or half a thousdandths" range. So the LE Wilson was unforgiving and the DoubleAlpha is a little forgiving for us reloaders and the best part is...if it fit the doublealpha, it will fit any barrel I owned and I also tried it in some other 40 cal brands at the local gun store. To fit in the LE Wilson it needs to be no larger than .423 at the neck and no larger that .424 at the base...SAMMI....and it needs to be straight. In the DoubleAlpha it can be .423 at the neck and .4245 at the base or at SAAMI with a half thoudandsth crookedness or buldge and it will still go in the case gage and in all the barrels. Of course if you have a really tight chamber in your gun you will have to make your own tests. Yes, everyone says use your barrel as the final check, and that would be fine if you only shoot in one barrel. The point to all of this is to let you know that you need to make sure your case gage (ie dillon) is close enough to SAAMI that it will not let fat ammo through that will not chamber in your firearm.

In the photos are cartridges that do not fit the DA but easily plop into the Dillon. FYI... all 20 holes in the DA were (as I could determine) the same. I am going to return the Dillon chamber check and see if I had an abnormal unit.

Thanks

rp